Game Day 2024 Trade Period - Lian Yu - that liminal space between trade and draft.

[Wray27]

Which I would have thought was obvious given the next sentence is talking about hitting targets.

Under pressure skills then. Not pressure skills which is tackling, presssure acts

 

[chaosball32]

Disagree. This year was such a unusually tight race for the top 8. And we, unluckily, had late season injuries to our spine that our current list could not adequately cover. Pearce, Darcy and Treacy. I think that is a legit excuse. You need lots of things to go right to make finals, and luck is one of them.

We still need to improve our list and hopefully this trade period and draft does just that.

This is the problem, people are looking at the last 3 games we played and using that as an excuse for missing finals, whilst ignoring the 20 games that came before that.

What about the Carlton, Port, West Coast, Hawthorn and Essendon losses for examples? Winnable games where we had most if not all of our best 22 out there and still found a way to lose.

I can concede that you need luck to win a premiership or make a Grand Final. But needing luck to make finals is such a cop-out. If you are good enough, then 23 games is more than enough of a sample size to determine if you are in the best 8 teams of an 18 team competition.

And the injuries excuse just doesn’t hold up. We had a good injury run this year all things considered. Carlton were absolutely decimated with injuries and still made finals over us. Brisbane lost Coleman in Round 1 and went without Ashcroft for most of the season and they are playing in a Grand Final today. They won a prelim final away from home with a ruckman who had 1 good shoulder.

Good teams find a way, bad teams make excuses, and it’s really disheartening to see this fanbase continue to make excuses. I’ve never seen any fanbase of any team in any sport make as many excuses for decades of mediocrity like the Freo fanbase. It’s quite remarkable.

 

[Dayts]

You just forever ruined Castaway for me. Thanks a lot man.

What else was he supposed to do out there

 

[Ge3ks]

We need to improve our list. We are almost there. An elite small forward is a must. Then no excuses.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Even at AFL level I don't think that's true. Against Essendon in particular he hit some nice passes. In the other games where he was up fwd not so much, but I just don't think he's particularly comfortable there, and has probably gotten too used to playing midfield. At WAFL level in particular the difference throughout the season is very noticeable.

The skills break down for me is this:

• Short to medium range passing is very decent, especially when he creates space for himself in midfield (he's gotten better at this). Lowkey has a decent left foot.
• At AFL level, needs more methods of getting space for himself in congestion. Good hand-eye coordination and sneaky agile, but not explosive. Slow twitch type. If he gets there, wouldn't be the first slow twitch type who hit off seasons hard and ended up becoming more explosive, but doesn't come naturally to him.
• He doesn't have a long bomb in his locker really at all, which probably makes his disposal under pressure look worse. Bit like Serong in that regard. 50m is about how long he can kick it on a good day. Again probably got to do with being a slow twitch type.
• Very iffy in front of goal, but probably has a lot to do with the fact that at WAFL level most of his shots have been right on the edge of his range.

I think once he's there athletically he'll be fine. Quicker off the mark, stronger, probably jumpier so he can use his read of the ball in the air at AFL level. The long bomb will probably never get there coz I think that's nature over nurture, so the key for him is just to get to a place where he never has to use his worst weapon.

His speed off the mark improved a ton this year. Erasmus was actually known for his speed off the mark as a junior but he was prett skinny so he had less weight to carry. Since being drafted he has put on a ton of muscle and in 2023 I agree he could look slow at times. With another preseason under his belt for the 2024 season he looked to be carrying that extra muscle way better. In repeat sprint work in the last preseason it was noted in some of the training reports he was leading repeat sprinting drills at times.

The comment you replied to said AFL late in the season, which can only mean the Essendon game. His disposal in that game was good. He only had one bad kick, the rest of his disposals were ok to very good, including some very nice kicks that lead to shots on goal.

His kicking in the WAFL finals games was good to very good as well. Particularly in the grand final. His improvement is whats encouraging. Yes he still needs to work n his kicking under pressure but so do a lot of very good afl midfielders.

 

[blue shark]

We need to improve our list. We are almost there. An elite small forward is a must. Then no excuses.

You’re not wrong, but do you think our coaching group is well rounded?
So many have heard this all before, the Croad, Hogan, Jackson, trades?
Ironic that they played a limp Cox on Hulk Hogan, what were they thinking?
For me the coaching department needs addressing rather than the old Freo
trade for a premiership.

 

[Ge3ks]

You’re not wrong, but do you think our coaching group is well rounded?
So many have heard this all before, the Croad, Hogan, Jackson, trades?
Ironic that they played a limp Cox on Hulk Hogan, what were they thinking?
For me the coaching department needs addressing rather than the old Freo
trade for a premiership.

I don't know about our coaching group. Mystery to me. But it is obvious that our match selection choices have been strange at times. Mistakes were made there.

 

[Alfonz]

If the $1.2M is correct as an annual salary then that shouldn't be our problem though. Bolton should be $800-$900K per year, which in theory we should be able to manage. Therefore there shouldn't be a large value applied to Richmond bringing the salary back to something sensible and still clearing a large net salary off their books while getting two firsts in the process (9 and 16).

I disagree there wouldn't be a large value attached to the salary cap component. We've seen 1.6 million from Bowes' contract worth pick 7. GC are idiots, yes, but there's not much else to go on for a ballpark value.

Regardless, the more draft capital we give up, the more salary cap relief we get. If you think 9+16 nets us Bolton on $800-$900k, that's fine. I don't think Richmond would be that generous. But if they are, then if we give up 9+10 we can get Bolton for even cheaper salary and I'm taking the extra money. It could be the difference between keeping a best 22 player or losing them. Our salary cap is going to be at breaking point with the amount of stars (league leading for top 100 paid players) we are trying to fit in. People are not appreciating this enough.

 

[Taylor]

Ironic that they played a limp Cox on Hulk Hogan, what were they thinking?

That Draper is beaten one on one quite a bit, particularly up the ground, probably.

I think Cox wasn't up to the challenge of breaking even against the Coleman medalist this year. Six weeks back at AFL level after an injury is right at the sweet spot for when your lack of preseason hits the fatigue outweighing your ability to recover.

I think he had a very bad game but I don't think there was another option to be picked that would have performed how we would hoped. We can't run the juniors against not just men, but the best men, one of the most athletic runners, in the league and expect to not get taken to the cleaners.

And given Hogan kicked the most goals this year, might have even been the most ever kicked for GWS in a year, there's a lot of key defenders who have been smashed by him.

We need Draper super strong and holding ground better or Alex Pearce fit and available. Suddenly our ball movement will look better, our defense will be more effective.

It's all down to denying the marks between the arcs for them and clunking them for us.

 

[Raw e Lobbster]

Interesting chat with Jack Riewoldt on GF day on Fox. Mentioned Baker went to the 2018 GF dressed in WC gear and massive Ben Cousins fan.

 

[Dockeroo]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

 

[Cobbler]

Interesting chat with Jack Riewoldt on GF day on Fox. Mentioned Baker went to the 2018 GF dressed in WC gear and massive Ben Cousins fan.

It’s known he’s a WCE fanboy.
I think the only reason there’s a link to us is because they don’t have a coach, they would want to prioritise the draft, he’ll be going to a rebuilding side.

He’s near certain to go to them.

 

[Taylor]

I disagree there wouldn't be a large value attached to the salary cap component. We've seen 1.6 million from Bowes' contract worth pick 7. GC are idiots, yes, but there's not much else to go on for a ballpark value.

Regardless, the more draft capital we give up, the more salary cap relief we get. If you think 9+16 nets us Bolton on $800-$900k, that's fine. I don't think Richmond would be that generous. But if they are, then if we give up 9+10 we can get Bolton for even cheaper salary and I'm taking the extra money. It could be the difference between keeping a best 22 player or losing them. Our salary cap is going to be at breaking point with the amount of stars (league leading for top 100 paid players) we are trying to fit in. People are not appreciating this enough.

If Richmond believe they are buying excellent draft picks then paying his salary becomes part of it, if Richmond believes Fremantle is buying their player then it's bringing them to the table with the picks before we start discussing salary.

I think Richmond are very motivated sellers. Don't be surprised if we get a very good deal salary wise for what seems like a fair trade in picks already.

 

[mayne iac]

Wow this is crazy to me. When Erasmus played I genuinely felt sorry for him he was so bad.

I was so passionate about dropping Fyfe for Erasmus. Than Erasmus played and I was horrified for the kid. Certainly wasn't ready.

He's an inside bull who needs time to get used to the speed of AFL footy. Unfortunately he's far from good enough to crack our inside mid brigade ATM, and we are now hitting a window where we can't gift game time.

He's also in an unfortunate position where he has proven to be an absolute liability as sub.

did ras give your son a bath?
Your son not up to it?

 

[CapitalA]

It’s known he’s a WCE fanboy.
I think the only reason there’s a link to us is because they don’t have a coach, they would want to prioritise the draft, he’ll be going to a rebuilding side.

He’s near certain to go to them.

I actually think it is to get the highest pick possible out of the eagles and has nothing to do with the coach.

 

[Taylor]

Erasmus' contributions the last game he played were good, it was the contributions of his direct opponent and what they did that was the issue. Fyfe wouldn't have been more defensive but he might have been able to keep his opponent on the preferred side of his body at stoppage.

 

[Cobbler]

Erasmus' contributions the last game he played were good, it was the contributions of his direct opponent and what they did that was the issue. Fyfe wouldn't have been more defensive but he might have been able to keep his opponent on the preferred side of his body at stoppage.

Yep. Caldwell wasn’t it? Made him look like rolled gold.

 

[s_wd6]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

Our problem wasn’t just injuries, but more so lack of mature experienced depth that was ready to replace them.

Part of it our own fault (not playing Reidy earlier) and part of it shit luck (McDonald and Cox going down long term round 1).

Sure WC had injuries in their premiership year, as did Brisbane this year, but their replacements weren’t all first year players.

Cox/Pearce out and we bring in a Cat B rookie who played reserves all of last year. Darcy/Treacy out and the replacement is either a WAFL ruck who hasn’t played a game yet or a delisted 20 year old forward who we signed in February and hadn’t played a game yet.

It’s all well and good comparing the injured players missing across the teams but it’s their replacements that make the difference.

Not to mention the fact that they’re all KPPs who take much longer to develop. We should be much better off next year if the same injuries occur because we’ve gotten games into these guys. But at the end of the day it’s pretty much fact that a more experienced list can cover injuries to their stars much better than a younger list.

 

[eastfreo75]

Ras needs another position on the ground in addition to inside mid.

Cannot stress how much this is holding him back.
Modern coaches are always talking about the value of multi positional players.

Is that coaches are lazy or try to control everything?

 

[blue shark]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

Best thing WC did was getting Mitchell.
We are lacking that ruthless attack on
the ball or player.
Targeting oppositions best.
Wouldn’t hurt

Our problem wasn’t just injuries, but more so lack of mature experienced depth that was ready to replace them.

Part of it our own fault (not playing Reidy earlier) and part of it shit luck (McDonald and Cox going down long term round 1).

Sure WC had injuries in their premiership year, as did Brisbane this year, but their replacements weren’t all first year players.

Cox/Pearce out and we bring in a Cat B rookie who played reserves all of last year. Darcy/Treacy out and the replacement is either a WAFL ruck who hasn’t played a game yet or a delisted 20 year old forward who we signed in February and hadn’t played a game yet.

It’s all well and good comparing the injured players missing across the teams but it’s their replacements that make the difference.

Bringing Pearce back early was pivotal.
Absolute stupidity.
Not playing Reidy and instead going with Tabs or Jackson ruck.
Reidy is how old?
You talk about experience but where is that off the field?
Then that experience you are talking about we let go, Acres, Lobb, Hogan, Meek.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I actually think the thing that Erasmus improved a shit tonne this year was his decision making


Previous years some of his decisions were baffling (in traffic, in space, on a mark/set play)


Really positive signs if he keeps improving his footy smarts

I agree his footy smarts need improving. One thing about Erasmus that I think some forget is that he was an elite cricketer who only dedicated himself solely to afl in Year 11 at school. He was also in the draft group greatly effected by Covid. I think his footy smarts improved a ton in 2024 but obviously tts an area he needs to improve still.

 

[s_wd6]

Best thing WC did was getting Mitchell.
We are lacking that ruthless attack on
the ball or player.
Targeting oppositions best.
Wouldn’t hurt

Bringing Pearce back early was pivotal.
Absolute stupidity.
Not playing Reidy and instead going with Tabs or Jackson ruck.
Reidy is how old?
You talk about experience but where is that off the field?
Then that experience you are talking about we let go, Acres, Lobb, Hogan, Meek.

Bringing back Pearce early did **** all. The only other option was waiting until it healed naturally where he would’ve missed the entire h&a season anyway. The break was in a completely different spot. There was no re injuring of the initial breaks. How many times do you have to be told that to stop parroting the same shit.

Everyone’s a ****ing hindsight hero aren’t they? Bring back Hogan from 4 years ago that solves our injury problems. Move Lobb’s girlfriend back to Perth? Convince Meek to stay playing WAFL as a break glass in case of emergency behind a guy who had just played 3 full seasons of football?

Why are we going back analysing every list decision instead of acknowledging that not all injuries are the same and older list demographics are much more capable of covering for players being out.

The club isn’t going to magically become better just because you fail to acknowledge the circumstances of our season as explanations for our performance.

 

[CapitalA]

Bringing back Pearce early did **** all. The only other option was waiting until it healed naturally where he would’ve missed the entire h&a season anyway. The break was in a completely different spot. There was no re injuring of the initial breaks. How many times do you have to be told that to stop parroting the same shit.

I think this is correct, even if we gave Pearce another 2 weeks his arm would have still been compromised. It reminded me of the Fyfe broken leg, we put a plate in and brought him back asap the next season. He broke his leg again because the plate was too rigid and created a leverage point. I believe the same thing happened to Pearce, the only way he comes back 100% is after he has the 2nd operation to remove the plate in his arm.

 

[blue shark]

I think this is correct, even if we gave Pearce another 2 weeks his arm would have still been compromised. It reminded me of the Fyfe broken leg, we put a plate in and brought him back asap the next season. He broke his leg again because the plate was too rigid and created a leverage point. I believe the same thing happened to Pearce, the only way he comes back 100% is after he has the 2nd operation to remove the plate in his arm.

He broke his arm in June.
They bought him back 4 weeks later.

 

[s_wd6]

He broke his arm in June.
They bought him back 4 weeks later.

And you know what? 4 weeks later and the initial break remained undamaged. Could’ve waited 8 weeks later with the plate still in the arm and he was still at risk of breaking a different part of his arm where the plate anchored. Which is exactly what happened.

It’s not black and white wait longer and he’ll be better unless you don’t ever put the plate in in the first place.