List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Saintos The ITK]

Don’t trade in players with sketchy injury records.


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That’s a big one

 

[The_Steadier]

Don’t trade in players with sketchy injury records.


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We'll call it the 'mason wood rule' :/

Arbitrary rules are dumb.

Therefore I think we should have a rule to not have arbitrary rules.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

We'll call it the 'mason wood rule' :/

Arbitrary rules are dumb.

Therefore I think we should have a rule to not have arbitrary rules.

Too late.
Consider them guidelines to save ourselves from shit trading.

 

[BrutThough]

Mason Wood dislikes this posts

Mason wasn't a trade so technically, he wouldn't have broken that rule.

 

[StCicatriz]

Where do we get these natural high picks? Keeping our first while taking multiple NGA's for nothing picks?
Keeping our firsts while drafting no.1 picks for nothing lower order draft picks like Collingwood, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Carlton do?
Getting our pet corrupt AFL admin to draft concession picks and then when they get to the AFL allow them?

The only way we are able to get high end multiple draft picks is by trading capital. It shits me no end that we have to play beggar, sell off our best to try and improve while multiple clubs are allowed to draft top players AND keep their first.

We have to let go a player like Battle we have developed and nurtured, then basically destroy the relationship because we are backed into a corner by the AFL. It was him Marshall, Steele, NAZ, Pou who we can trade for top end draft picks.

That is our position. I would love somebody to tell me how we get picks otherwise? Only other way is purchase picks so we chew up our SC to others like one of the 'big' clubs to use on a Lynch or a Cameron or a Petracca, while we get a good underdeveloped kid who we can develop and then have to sell again to get a decent draft hand.

Maybe canny live trading like getting a second for free and still get Wilson like last year. However the random 2nd rounder wont get us near the top four.

This is not grievance, this is a fact created by the AFL allowing booster clubs to have multiple free NGA's multiple Father Sons, both still keeping their first, and corrupt free draft picks for a rabble club that purposely destroyed its list then siphons off the top kids.

I hated losing Battle, will feel maybe OK if we get 8, barely enough. If we get anything less it is a disaster.

From our ladder position. An extra pick 8 ain't going to dramatically change our fortunes.

Losing best 22 players who have just entered their prime will.

The top 5 pick being touted for battle didn't even happen. Now suddenly pick 8 is good.

 

[gringo2011]

Not many want to come to st kilda lets be honest

Mainly due to bad management and lack of direction.

LDU would command 2 or 3x 1stRDPs
Houston will be 28yo and you don't pay big for those guys unless you're list is already built.

I don’t think any player has ever cost 3 x first rounders. 2 with a second round back seems to be the price for a trade. Cameron maybe got a bunch of late firsts or something. Was to keep his wage down though.

 

[stavro#4]

From our ladder position. An extra pick 8 ain't going to dramatically change our fortunes.

Losing best 22 players who have just entered their prime will.

The top 5 pick being touted for battle didn't even happen. Now suddenly pick 8 is good.

The point to the entire scenario was that if we were trading Battle. We would all believe a pick this high in the first round would be “overs” in our favour.

To have a pick this high represents the best chance to find & bring in the best talent.

They tried throwing money at players and no one took it this year.

The alternative is keeping the same group not good enough to compete and trying to bridge that gap with our 1 first rounder.

The bold is the fact.

There isn’t a lot of options to improve when no one wants to take the stupid amount of money on offer.

 

[Joffaboy]

From our ladder position. An extra pick 8 ain't going to dramatically change our fortunes.

Losing best 22 players who have just entered their prime will.

The top 5 pick being touted for battle didn't even happen. Now suddenly pick 8 is good.

That wasn't what I asked. I asked where do we get these natural draft picks.
And two top ten picks is better than one.

We are forced to try to get picks, who apart from Battle? Steele, Marshall, Wilkie, King, Pou and Naz have big currency.
Which of those? Personally I could live with two firsts for King, but it won't happen.
Steele? We just lost Crouch and Ross, and he is our captain.
Naz and Pou are kids.
Marshall? Who rucks?
Wilkie? Would argue he is even more important than Battle.
We need to renew our list without handouts, NGA's and F/S no.1 picks.
How is that done with the above constraints.
As for pick 5, done to death. Beating Geelong and Carlton was important as Ross Lyon said, harking back to the Melbourne Storm mindset and culture of winning when there is nothing to play for.

Do we tank all season for pick one? Do we look like North or WCE?

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[Oh When the Saints]

The best way of getting elite talent is to keep drafting it. To do that you need (1) good recruiters; (2) a decent array of draft picks; and (3) good development coaches.

For a decade we lacked (1) and (3) and so whenever we had (2), we stuffed it up.

For the last 3 years we've had (1), (2) and (3) and we are now seeing the benefits in our group of under 22s.

We just need to stay the course. Keep drafting the most talent we can and then fill the gaps where there is someone cheap who can play a role for us. Eventually we will get a critical mass of elite players who will be at the club at the same time and it will help us succeed. Confident that we will see the outcome this time around (compared to 2012-14) given (1) and (3) are in place.

It was pretty obvious in 2023 and 2024 that our peak footy came when we had a fit and available midfield. Having no Crouch (who was in the top 30 mids in the comp last year), no Dow and no Clark, and then losing Henry, really impacted us substantially. It's a miracle we were competitive in the first half of the season - testament to the coaching. We easily had the worst midfield in the competition.

Drafting a pair of elite midfielders in the first round is the best thing we can do. If we can find a cheap (i.e. late picks) experienced inside ball-winner to replace Crouch and support Steele next year then even better.

 

[SaintersUnite]

Mason Wood dislikes this posts

We didn’t trade him in, he was free. So that’s fine


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[gringo2011]

Where do we get these natural high picks? Keeping our first while taking multiple NGA's for nothing picks?
Keeping our firsts while drafting no.1 picks for nothing lower order draft picks like Collingwood, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Carlton do?
Getting our pet corrupt AFL admin to draft concession picks and then when they get to the AFL allow them?

The only way we are able to get high end multiple draft picks is by trading capital. It shits me no end that we have to play beggar, sell off our best to try and improve while multiple clubs are allowed to draft top players AND keep their first.

We have to let go a player like Battle we have developed and nurtured, then basically destroy the relationship because we are backed into a corner by the AFL. It was him Marshall, Steele, NAZ, Pou who we can trade for top end draft picks.

That is our position. I would love somebody to tell me how we get picks otherwise? Only other way is purchase picks so we chew up our SC to others like one of the 'big' clubs to use on a Lynch or a Cameron or a Petracca, while we get a good underdeveloped kid who we can develop and then have to sell again to get a decent draft hand.

Maybe canny live trading like getting a second for free and still get Wilson like last year. However the random 2nd rounder wont get us near the top four.

This is not grievance, this is a fact created by the AFL allowing booster clubs to have multiple free NGA's multiple Father Sons, both still keeping their first, and corrupt free draft picks for a rabble club that purposely destroyed its list then siphons off the top kids.

I hated losing Battle, will feel maybe OK if we get 8, barely enough. If we get anything less it is a disaster.

So selling our best players hoping to get players better in a gamble. I’m not sure most people understand that having a competitive football side is the goal. Not getting high picks. There is still a very good chance of picks busting. Last 2 years we have drafted exceptionally for the picks available. That is how you make a jump.

 

[SaintersUnite]

Can someone remind me how we managed to get both 7+8 when we drafted Clark and Coff? What did we trade out?


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[sauce_head]

Good news, particularly re Wood. I love Butler but he has to get in the game more. I derisory think his job should be defensive goalie (we’d save about five goals a match), then he slingshots forward from there (yes the entire length of the ground). Will get him involved in the game at least!

 

[SteeleSaints]

I thought I would look at the probable trades to see where we might be able to acquire more picks in this years draft.

Richmond will most likely end up with picks - #1, #9 (Bolton), #12 or #23 (Baker), #13 or #20 (Rioli), #21, #29 plus extras in 2025. They then have #39, #41 & #47 we should be angling to grab a pick from the Tigers.

GCS currently have pick #6 which they will use on a live pick before the Lombard bid, but teams will ask the question. However there pick #34 might be gettable as they will have another academy crop next year.

Sydney have picks #18 & #19 and they also have a couple of highly rated academy kids next year. They will want to draft a key defender, but I wonder if they would be open to a trade of picks.

Now that clubs can trade picks 2 x years ahead eg 2025 & 2026 its going to make the live pick trading on the draft nights something extraordinary. The club will need to more across other clubs list needs/numbers, projected academy and FS players more than ever before. Hopefully SOS and the club are well prepared and ready to pounce like they did last year with GWS.

The possible trading that is expected this year is going to be insane. The indictive draft order will be up ended with the number of pick trades plus player movements. Exciting times for the club!

 

[sauce_head]

I'm sure there's plenty of lawyers out there willing to take retainers to do nothing, but what would line of attack would these lawyers possibly be using on "equality in this comp"? It's a private organisation, it can set up its rules however it wants.

Line of attack is request equality for marquee games and our horrible deal at docklands despite paying that off for the afl by putting 800,000 more fans through than any other club.

If those private conversations don’t go well then go optics in the media. Show the ever growing inconsistencies in the AFL’s approach to equalisation vs profit and how that is a never ending cycle that reinforces biased for big clubs. In other words, you have to embarrass the hell out of them if they don’t play nicely in private.

 

[Remboy]

Can someone remind me how we managed to get both 7+8 when we drafted Clark and Coff? What did we trade out?


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We traded our first pick (10) the previous year for Hawthorn’s future first(7). Also getting two second rounders (23 & 36) in the deal.

 

[StCicatriz]

That wasn't what I asked. I asked where do we get these natural draft picks.
And two top ten picks is better than one.

We are forced to try to get picks, who apart from Battle? Steele, Marshall, Wilkie, King, Pou and Naz have big currency.
Which of those? Personally I could live with two firsts for King, but it won't happen.
Steele? We just lost Crouch and Ross, and he is our captain.
Naz and Pou are kids.
Marshall? Who rucks?
Wilkie? Would argue he is even more important than Battle.
We need to renew our list without handouts, NGA's and F/S no.1 picks.
How is that done with the above constraints.
As for pick 5, done to death. Beating Geelong and Carlton was important as Ross Lyon said, harking back to the Melbourne Storm mindset and culture of winning when there is nothing to play for.

Do we tank all season for pick one? Do we look like North or WCE?

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i answered it. your ladder position. we get pick 7 or pick 8 or what ever it is. next year if we are shit we get another top 10 pick purely based on ladder position.

one extra pick 8 from battle aint changing our fortunes. if you need more than that, you're down the path of answering your own question. how do we get them?

 

[StCicatriz]

The point to the entire scenario was that if we were trading Battle. We would all believe a pick this high in the first round would be “overs” in our favour.

To have a pick this high represents the best chance to find & bring in the best talent.

They tried throwing money at players and no one took it this year.

The alternative is keeping the same group not good enough to compete and trying to bridge that gap with our 1 first rounder.

The bold is the fact.

There isn’t a lot of options to improve when no one wants to take the stupid amount of money on offer.

and you think one extra pick 8 is going to suddenly bridge that massive gap you're talking about?

 

[The Jack]

Can someone remind me how we managed to get both 7+8 when we drafted Clark and Coff? What did we trade out?


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Big Boy for Hawks future 1st I believe.

Edit: Got this wrong sorry!

 

[StCicatriz]

So selling our best players hoping to get players better in a gamble. I’m not sure most people understand that having a competitive football side is the goal. Not getting high picks. There is still a very good chance of picks busting. Last 2 years we have drafted exceptionally for the picks available. That is how you make a jump.

spot on. its about building a competitive list. thats why they hired lyon and not go for a new coach.

if the strategy was about picks and solely rebuilding through the draft then you don't hire lyon. instead you're selling off parts of the list, letting the natural progression to the bottom take place.

if the list is no good then all lyon will do is keep you mid table, as he'll extract every last bit of talent out of the list. its counter productive to the strategy.

 

[SteeleSaints]

So selling our best players hoping to get players better in a gamble. I’m not sure most people understand that having a competitive football side is the goal. Not getting high picks. There is still a very good chance of picks busting. Last 2 years we have drafted exceptionally for the picks available. That is how you make a jump.

Its a gamble but I think the club believe they could off load Battle and get a near equivalent replacement cheaply. Then benefit from the compensation pick.

It all comes back to whether they rated Battle's contributions correctly or not. If the replacement doesnt fill the hole then obviously the decision is questionable.

There might even be an arguement if we take Trainor than he will be an upgrade on Battle. Give it time to play out...

 

[Diehard Saint]

and you think one extra pick 8 is going to suddenly bridge that massive gap you're talking about?

Uh no.
But it’s better than not having it.
We’re not fixing this in one year. Last few drafts/ trades have been pretty good. Need to keep going.

 

[botts]

Being reported Mac Andrew is being offered monster deals, $12 mill over 8 years. Have to be Norf if true?

Reckon it’s us

 

[botts]

We traded our first pick (10) the previous year for Hawthorn’s future first(7). Also getting two second rounders (23 & 36) in the deal.

Geez we butchered those picks

 

[SaintersUnite]

Cheers, now I’m wondering who was drafted with that Pick 10 lol


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