List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[ThomasR]

Easy argument to make because even the best list in the world isn't a dead cert to win an AFL flag, there's to many variables; umpiring decisions, injuries, coaching, oppo teams playing above themselves on any particular day. When was the last time the best list was bolted on to win a premiership?

maybe Cats 2008 or Bombers 2001

 

[jimmytigs]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

well we do a lot of things wrong,but we are not stupid,to get into that glorious position of melting and ranting on the big footy saints board when something goes wrong,we first have to pull the trigger,so yes,if we have the chance we pull the trigger on a legit midfield big fish,lets do it

who knows,one day one may live up to the pay packet and the hype & take us to the promise land(or end up like hanners,meekly walking out the door with all sorts of feedback following him)but either way we gotta pull the trigger

 

[SteeleSaints]

He'll be an absolute gun.

He is but he is also a f...wit and until he matures no side is going to get the best out of him. He is the type of player every opposition team will love to smash because he is way too cocky.

 

[sauce_head]

He is but he is also a f...wit and until he matures no side is going to get the best out of him. He is the type of player every opposition team will love to smash because he is way too cocky.

How many games has he played again?!

 

[SteeleSaints]

How many games has he played again?!

I know but you cant suggest he doesnt get distracted and sucked in. How long did it take Toby Green to pull his head in, hopefully Harley learns a bit quicker than Toby. They seem very similiar in make up from what Ive seen - complete tools out of the field.

Reid will either become the best player in the comp or he will go down the destructive path and be a nighmare too manage. The shot Adam Simpson had when he was sacked suggests he is not a team player.

 

[Yawkey way]

Quickly reaching Hickey v Longer, it’s going to be a long 5 weeks.

 

[austinnn]

This is true, he was not as dedicated as he should have been. He is one that has bought into the Lyon mantra.

I watched him closely the first preseason, he had lost a lot of weight, played 19 games, the most he had played in a season for the club and was looking for another big preseason for 24.
This was disrupted by a soft tissue injury then a collarbone which severely disrupted his season.
Only played 11 games, 8 of which were in a row at the end of the season. His last four games were his best.
He needs another big uninterrupted preseason in my view and next year he will be a valuable inside mid.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

He needs to get off the durries

 

[TheJackal]

What if we did that and then he just walked to Collingwood as soon as he could in Free Agency

You mean once his 14 year contract is up? I guess if that happens we'll have to live with barracking for a footy team without a 34 year old Sir Harley Reid.

 

[NextYearPlease]

Stocker and Wood are not even close to Smith , Smith was completely broken down , the other two boys had minor issues

There injuries were so minor that their clubs desisted them / gave them away for free.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[inntheno]

He needs to get off the durries

I have heard this for along time too. Who here has actually witnessed this in the last 12 months?

 

[Teflon]

Left out Phillipou, Henry and even King who is still on the younger side. All of those guys have potential to go up to a very high level. Collard is a first round pick too. They must have a bit of faith in him coming good to extend him too.

Even kids like Keeler and Hotton have some potential and O'Connell and McLennan are rated by the club by the sounds of it.

The trick is balancing youth with experience. You don't want too many kids at once or you can get uncompetitive and inconsistent quickly. You probably want to have about 3 or 4 under 50 gamers that are high potential, a similar amount of guys between a 50 and 100 games and then a bulk of your list in that 100 to 150 games and then group of 5 or so around 200 games or something for a nice mix of youth and experience. That gives you a good chance of competing in a bulk of games I imagine.

I’d agree with that. - point is, even with Pou’s 3 “breakout” games, we don’t know who who is high/elite potential
Which says/ hit the draft

 

[austinnn]

I think that we should have just admitted that the rebuild had stuffed up and kept drafting hard. Getting guys like Hanners and Hill was about looking like we could attract players over making an environment than attracted good players first.

I agree. First year of a new coach who we were all rapt to get, the unbeatable Brett Ratten, and a few young guns coming through, plus a great new training ground with league-leading facilities, it seemed like we would be the destination club we'd hoped to become.

But it didn't happen. We are a proud club, maybe too proud sometimes to see our true place on the AFL landscape, (though Lyon & Bassat now seem to get it). Maybe the exercise was all about kickstarting a desire from outside to head to Moorabbin, showing oppo players that guns like Hill and Ryder and players from more successful clubs like Butler and Jones would find a new lease of life with the Saints.

I think at that specific time we ahould have been honest with ourselves and said "stuff you all, we don't need to be a destination club for the moment, we'll draft our own guns". The payoff would have been longer but stronger.

However I do also agree with others that the players we brought in have served us well in different ways, and the strategy of bringing in players from successful club cultures may pay off in the development of our young players. It was a misstep but it has had and may continue to have significant benefits.

 

[Sully111]

He is but he is also a f...wit and until he matures no side is going to get the best out of him. He is the type of player every opposition team will love to smash because he is way too cocky.

There isn't a team in the comp that wouldn't love to have him right now. A great coach can help with attitude. You're overplaying how big a deal it is. He's got some mongrel in him but that's part of what is going to make him a star.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The Houston news is the best thing I have heard all week!!!

Honestly if we desparately want another back flanker we can take Travaglia at the draft. He is better over head and provides the same drive from defence. The major win is he is an 18yo and we would get 15 years service out of him rather than 6. Plus we have Hastie and McLennan developing well and will be including Hofmann, I think we will be well covered in that position.

Recruiting at the National Draft is not just about the following year, its about setting your club up for the next decade. We all want the club to improve, so how many opportunities do you think we will get of having 2 x early picks in a really strong draft. The best midfielders are nearly always taken in the top 10 of the draft or at least your gve your club the best chance.

What we do need are A grade or elite midfielders. With some fortune Windhager, Phillipou and Garcia make the grade. I dont think Henry has the game to become a full time mid but playing a few minutes here and there will also benefit. but wouldnt it be nice to add 2 x almost garuanteed mids to that group.


I beg to differ.

If you have a midfielder playing an average of 70 minutes of a 120 minute game someone else has to cover for him. We only ever go into a game with a max of 4 or 5 rotations. Clark not being able to run out games puts a lot of extra work load on his midfield team mates. He does well when he is out there apart from shutting down quick turn overs but we can live with that, he just needs to find the aerobic capacity to play out games.

Its like subbing him off every game midway through the 3rd quarter and not having a replacement.

If that was the case why doesn’t Clark ever get subbed off?

Maybe its because his TOG has zero to do with his ability to run out games & everything to do with the role they want him to play.


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[Diehard Saint]

This is the thing. I have no issues with Hill the player. He's been great for us since Lyon came back but it was just the wrong time to go and top up a list that had a very small youth pool. Everything was based around a group of King, Coff and Clark. That has proven to be a misstep and everyone involved has been moved on.

We are doing the reverse list build and you can argue that it stopped us crashing to the bottom of the ladder but it made what should have been a short sharp list build into a 5 year longer exercise. We have done an incredible job since we got rid of Lethers and Gags and really set ourselves up for a better brighter future by doing bulk drafting.

You can't say how we would have gone doing the list build 5 years ago but you see the benefits in it with guys like Phillipou, Nas, Wilson and Garcia coming through now. My only disappointment now is that we sacked the recruiter who has done the bulk of the work.

Not sure you can say it was a misstep unless you are Nostradamus and predict the injuries all three have copped.

Unlucky, yes. Misstep, no.

 

[Joffaboy]

If that was the case why doesn’t Clark ever get subbed off?

Maybe its because his TOG has zero to do with his ability to run out games & everything to do with the role they want him to play.


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ToG is the greatest furphy going. It's just a tool for the Clark critics to beat him with.

You make a good point, he is never subbed out and coupled with the fact we are the second best team in the league for running out games.
It is obvious from the above he has a specific role that the coaches want him to play.
We won 6 of the last 8 games after he came back.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sainterz12]

I haven't looked into Liam Bakers contract situation whether he's contracted or not

Any chance of us getting involved here?
Saints give picks 7 and 24
West Coast give pick 3
Richmond give Baker
Saints get 3
West Coast get 7 and Baker
Richmond get 24

We get one of the top 3 guys, ideally Draper. Does this undervalue Baker?

On SM-X200 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Spider Eater]

Quickly reaching Hickey v Longer, it’s going to be a long 5 weeks.

 

[Teflon]

I think the assumption is Parker will stay put now, hes playing a very important role in a team that looks Grand Final if not flag bound.

You wouldnt wanna overlook Macrae for Parker to not move.

Also i lay into Brad Hill more than just about anyone but people armchairing that we shouldnt have got him have lost the plot. Leadership and standards are critical to a footy club and between him and Mase i reckon theres a HUGE percentage of our improvement that should be credited to them.

I think the quests it’s McRae or Parker not none - I’d prefer Parker
I think Hill has been good 900k over 5 years good at that time again….probably not
Leadership aside he’s the cream
We haven’t had the substance to take advantage of him imo
I would still have liked him
Question is price and timing
Anyway, here now so let’s move on

 

[Diehard Saint]

When we had no midfield we went extremely negating. We played some of the ugliest most painful to watch footy ever. Lyon was criticised for his abysmal style for it. It wasn't just defence. It was a full field blanketing to stop us from being beaten. Not going out to win.

But understandable, no?
If we couldn’t compete, we should make it as hard as possible for the opposition.
Or would you have preferred a 100 point belting every week?
The fact is, once we do have a midfield that is up and running and fewer injuries hopefully, the team will play more attacking style, which we saw in the second half of the season, yet still know how to go into defensive mode when needed.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think Lyon was brought in on an impetuous move by entrepreneur Bassat in typical impatient Saints management style- instant fix.. sack the coach, bring in a hallowed coach from years gone by, bring in older trade-out players from other teams to plug gaps. When we start losing games, the narrative changes to ..'oh it's a discovery year"..it's a development year" etc etc...like we have never had this before with just about every coach.
Contrast to the Hawks- Mitchell comes in as coach, has Clarkson in the box as mentor, start to formulate a style of play, and stick hard and fast to it, while fixing list issues with a minimum of fuss, and due to faith in their method, their personnel etc. they quickly caught us and passed us. The formula is pretty simple, but the Saints never get it right.

I highly doubt Bassat has made an impetuous move in his life.
He’s an extremely thorough and tough operator. Not to mention smart as.

 

[beside the seaside]

Surely West Coast don't involve 3 in getting Baker. That would be nuts.

 

[BrutThough]

Surely West Coast don't involve 3 in getting Baker. That would be nuts.

They need to be ruthless to get in through the pre season draft.

 

[luca77]

So only two elite mids since at least plugger / winmar days…

Who did you leave out?!

Everyone else! 3 you reckon?

 

[luca77]

Nobody’s worth that this isn’t the NFL and we don’t have quarterbacks. Is he bont good ? the bulldogs have some very good players and him and their out of the finals. Is he daicos good ? same story. LDU is the saviour dream for next year, seven seasons 108 games 19 wins .

You need to draft your stars because chasing someone else’s and paying those prices is only arguably worth it for teams in a flag window. Free agents on the other hand are gold but we all know where the top ones go and that’s to flag contenders. No we need to hit the draft and trade smart, this is a deep draft we need more picks not less. This is the sort of draft where you might just find another bargain like Sinclair, Marshall or Wilkie with a late pick.

Just for a laugh if I could have any three young guys I’d take Darcy, Reid and Scheezel.

You wouldn't give up 7, 8 and a probable 8-10 for a young Dusty or Gaz Jr?
Fair enough. I think plenty would with flowers and a card.