List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[stavro#4]

Why is it that some clubs like St Kilda have to engage in long-term list building and generally are expected not to jump the queue and to wait their turn, while other clubs never bottom out, continually top up (including with expensive and/or mature age players) and no one calls it a "sugar hit" or a "false dawn".

Geelong still have built from the draft and used free agency well.

The only mega trade was Cameron but they also sold Kelly for a kings ransom aswell.

We don’t have enough with what we have and we would be trading a kings ransom/our future for a 29 year old player.

Yes he is a gun. But he isn’t cheap collateral wise and that’s a big issue from our point.

 

[MightySaint]

Geelong still have built from the draft and used free agency well.

The only mega trade was Cameron but they also sold Kelly for a kings ransom aswell.

We don’t have enough with what we have and we would be trading a kings ransom/our future for a 29 year old player.

Yes he is a gun. But he isn’t cheap collateral wise and that’s a big issue from our point.

Then why would they offer Merrett a deal? You'd have to be missing a brain to not realise Essendon would ask for 7, 8 and more.

 

[Saintbloke]

Why is it that some clubs like St Kilda have to engage in long-term list building and generally are expected not to jump the queue and to wait their turn, while other clubs never bottom out, continually top up (including with expensive and/or mature age players) and no one calls it a "sugar hit" or a "false dawn".

Sadly, short-term thinking is part of our club DNA. Development of a TEAM seems beyond those in charge, and it seems like 3 years is as long as they can stand without doing something dumb.

 

[StFly]

Why is it that some clubs like St Kilda have to engage in long-term list building and generally are expected not to jump the queue and to wait their turn, while other clubs never bottom out, continually top up (including with expensive and/or mature age players) and no one calls it a "sugar hit" or a "false dawn".

Because frankly we haven't been professional, and they have largely.

We moved on from guys like Archie who cooked books, got guys like Butts that sniffed and slept under boardroom tables, guys like Nettleford who CBF picking up the head coaches call as far too busy looking at his own reflection, Westaway might as well have been dead such was the lack of a presence, then we had people having a right old cry when the AFLPA pres popped in as if we could do any better because AFL plant, and Finnis was just a socio warrior...

Why would anyone want to come to us in earnest when we can't get our backroom sorted?

So we chase the immediate fix since it solves the core issue of looking like we have the right people in the right places making the right decisions to then be a professional outfit. Instead of just a collection of individuals pointing every which way to say "go left".

 

[Yawkey way]

Anyone would , he's their captain and he's contracted.
Why did we target Merrett? We might as well have targeted Cripps, Neale, Bont, Rozee etc...in fact i'd prefer any of those.

We’re going full norf, somehow we think it’s makes us relevant to be mentioned in connection to every available player and to make bazillion dollar offers. I mean what player manager isn’t having a coffee when a club says name your price.

 

[stavro#4]

Then why would they offer Merrett a deal? You'd have to be missing a brain to not realise Essendon would ask for 7, 8 and more.

Let’s say this hypothetical crap that has come only from Tom Morris is real.

They are either selling off everything thinking Merrett is the messiah.

Or.

Someone else is leaving to bring in further draft collateral.


If it’s the first one. Then they are beyond stupid.

If it’s the second, it could work - but I’m struggling to see a player good enough to bring in multiple picks that wouldn’t upset everyone by doing so and make us worse.

 

[jimmytigs]

Why is it that some clubs like St Kilda have to engage in long-term list building and generally are expected not to jump the queue and to wait their turn, while other clubs never bottom out, continually top up (including with expensive and/or mature age players) and no one calls it a "sugar hit" or a "false dawn".

if you are referring to geelong im sorry to say,but they do things better,only have to look at the 2020 covid draft,they got holmes and neale & were the club to force sydneys hand on gulden,we picked up allison,at least our first pick was later,other clubs look far sillier than us

geelong just do it right

 

[Nutsngum]

We’re going full norf, somehow we think it’s makes us relevant to be mentioned in connection to every available player and to make bazillion dollar offers. I mean what player manager isn’t having a coffee when a club says name your price.

Do we have to constantly do this? This, and other threads, are just filled with speculative, emotive and poorly thought out commentary like this.

Do you honestly think that engaging on good terms with player managers is a bad thing?
Do you honestly believe that inquiring about getting in other players, even if its a casual inquiry that isnt really meant to lead anywhere, is a bad thing?
Do you really think maintaining good relations with player managers who manage entire hosts of players is a bad thing?

Because you are basically saying any sort of discussion at all also involves us acting unprofessionally, casting common sense into the wind and acting like desperate idiots when so far you have the vague words of ****ing Tom Morris to go on of all people.

I truly understand people are frustrated with our lack of long term success but people just jump at every single shadow now, frothing about how the club is doing x and y and how bad we are run etc. etc. when its just not like that in reality.


The club has repeatedly said we will be prioritizing the draft this year and absolutely no words out of the club itself has said anything differently.

 

[_Maximus_12]

You can imagine why Merrett would be unhappy at Essendon. They've moved on Hind, Heppell, Kelly and soon to be Stringer who are all senior ready made players, they don't look to be replacing them with talent, and their kids haven't come on.
Despite the flaws of each of the above players, they look more destined to be a bottom 4 side next year, and the years following than they do a top 4 side.

Would I love him at St Kilda? Yes.
Am I comfortable paying two first rounders? No.

We'll get ourselves in a horrible spot if we get Zac to commit to us, but we're not willing to cough up the asking price

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm not against Merrett, as long as it isn't an insane price. Pick 8 and a F1 for Merrett and a F3. Trade that F3 for Soldo, use our current 3rd for Macrae, draft a mid with pick 7, and all of a sudden we have a much, much better engine room with some quality youth coming through at the same time.

While building in the draft is a great way to developed a premiership list, it isn't the only way. The Geelong method of quality veterans + well spotted value picks works as well. Dalrymple has shown the ability to pick quality late, so we at least on paper have the talent in our recruiting department to go that route.

I also think that for Stkilda, we have to accept that we won't get the same access that other teams get which have allowed them to really supercharge their rebuilds. We don't have access to academy picks like GC, Lions, GWS and Sydney. We don't have the same pool of father sons like Collingwood etc. We don't have the big club appeal of a Richmond, a Carlton, or Geelong And we can't (or at least shouldn't) be as poor over a long period as North.

So yeah, we might have to do things a different way

Yeah l have to agree though it's a deviation. If it's done right it could put us in contention.
Merrett
Mcrae
Soldo
Tomlinson
Only really need 2 years of good service from this group to get the job done. Assuming we still use some decent picks this year it can still satisfy the long term objectives.

 

[Sibaspud]

Let’s say this hypothetical crap that has come only from Tom Morris is real.

They are either selling off everything thinking Merrett is the messiah.

Or.

Someone else is leaving to bring in further draft collateral.


If it’s the first one. Then they are beyond stupid.

If it’s the second, it could work - but I’m struggling to see a player good enough to bring in multiple picks that wouldn’t upset everyone by doing so and make us worse.

Is there any chance another club has made a very generous offer to one of our contracted players?

Or is there any chatter about any players wanting out?

 

[ScrappyDo]

You can imagine why Merrett would be unhappy at Essendon. They've moved on Hind, Heppell, Kelly and soon to be Stringer who are all senior ready made players, they don't look to be replacing them with talent, and their kids haven't come on.
Despite the flaws of each of the above players, they look more destined to be a bottom 4 side next year, and the years following than they do a top 4 side.

Would I love him at St Kilda? Yes.
Am I comfortable paying two first rounders? No.

We'll get ourselves in a horrible spot if we get Zac to commit to us, but we're not willing to cough up the asking price

I think we get could get the younger McKenzie brother through our NGA next year and if that's the case l can see the,,,, Merrett



I'll show myself out..

 

[St Neil]

The phrase in Morris' verbal report that gives me pause was "more advanced than it otherwise would have been".

What does that MEAN?

I take that to mean that talks have been going on for a while, they have the framework of a deal, and discussions have extended beyond Merrett and Saints officials.

I call BS.

 

[chris_h_11]

They are either selling off everything thinking Merrett is the messiah.

Or.

Someone else is leaving to bring in further draft collateral.

I think there's a third option where Merrett has gone full Petracca and wants out.

His people have looked around at which clubs could actually pay the contract, and have the collateral to get a deal done, and have come to us to make an offer.

We would have been keen when he was an RFA at the end of 21, and given our mid stocks, we're probably obliged to see what we can put together to see if it progresses any further.

Like Petracca, I doubt this goes anywhere, it's a cry for help and his issues with the Bombers get addressed. But it's still worth our time to look at it.

 

[stavro#4]

Is there any chance another club has made a very generous offer to one of our contracted players?

Or is there any chatter about any players wanting out?

100% there is.

Just like this story came out of nowhere. We have good players and players others would want.

What’s to say Adelaide hasn’t got Pou or Nas in the same situation?

My opinion is that this is crap/not happening.

You don’t let bombs like this drop so far out from trade period.

When a bomb goes off it’s on the eve or during the trade period and the 2 that come to mind are Horne Francis and Tom Boyd.

This reeks of either: the club wants everyone to to know it’s got money and Capital to deal or Merrett wants more money as he is disgruntled

 

[stavro#4]

I think there's a third option where Merrett has gone full Petracca and wants out.

His people have looked around at which clubs could actually pay the contract, and have the collateral to get a deal done, and have come to us to make an offer.

We would have been keen when he was an RFA at the end of 21, and given our mid stocks, we're probably obliged to see what we can put together to see if it progresses any further.

Like Petracca, I doubt this goes anywhere, it's a cry for help and his issues with the Bombers get addressed. But it's still worth our time to look at it.

I was more referencing what it would be from our Point of view.

Hypothetically speaking here. We keep pick 7 and try get a deal done with 8 and next years first?

If that occurred:

In P7, Peckett, Cole
Merrett Macrae Tomlinson Soldo

Out: Battle/P8, Future First, Second rounder, Membrey

It makes us better no doubt. But in my opinion the hardest climb is into the top 4 and I don’t think it puts us there.

 

[St Neil]

Is there any chance another club has made a very generous offer to one of our contracted players?

Or is there any chatter about any players wanting out?

This is a very astute point.

Are we potentially receiving a godfather offer for one of our players?

 

[Diehard Saint]

He's just adding words to make the story seem to important and likely than it really is.

According to oh smarmy one on the radio this morning, Merret wants to play more finals! Based on recent history Im not sure (although extremely hopeful) that he’s guaranteed that with us.

Sounds like complete BS to be honest.

 

[saintvic]

I was more referencing what it would be from our Point of view.

Hypothetically speaking here. We keep pick 7 and try get a deal done with 8 and next years first?

If that occurred:

In P7, Peckett, Cole
Merrett Macrae Tomlinson Soldo

Out: Battle/P8, Future First, Second rounder, Membrey

It makes us better no doubt. But in my opinion the hardest climb is into the top 4 and I don’t think it puts us there.

I think if it helps us to play finals next year then it makes us look more attractive to any free agents available next year like LDU or Brayshaw.

 

[FQFjt]

if you are referring to geelong im sorry to say,but they do things better,only have to look at the 2020 covid draft,they got holmes and neale & were the club to force sydneys hand on gulden,we picked up allison,at least our first pick was later,other clubs look far sillier than us

geelong just do it right

I'm not just referring to Geelong. I'll give you another example - Hawthorn are recruiting Tom Barrass who is the exact same age as Merrett and in the exact same contractual situation (signed until 2027). WC have said he is worth 2 first round picks. Yet it is lauded as smart recruiting and a huge win for Hawthorn. Hawthorn, being a team that until about 4 months ago was unanimously far less advanced in their rebuild, and having achieved no more this year than we did in 2021.

I am not saying we should be trading for Merrett, but I am questioning this defeatist, stay in your lane, attitude that has been internalised by many Saints fans, and the media. With smart recruiting (trading, free agency, drafting), we should be in contention next year. The premiership race is wide open.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I was more referencing what it would be from our Point of view.

Hypothetically speaking here. We keep pick 7 and try get a deal done with 8 and next years first?

If that occurred:

In P7, Peckett, Cole
Merrett Macrae Tomlinson Soldo

Out: Battle/P8, Future First, Second rounder, Membrey

It makes us better no doubt. But in my opinion the hardest climb is into the top 4 and I don’t think it puts us there.

He's 29.
Giving up two first for us is a big deal for me. I know he’s been a durable player - but still.

 

[stavro#4]

I think if it helps us to play finals next year then it makes us look more attractive to any free agents available next year like LDU or Brayshaw.

You’re proposing a hypothetical.

By the same token what if we don’t land anyone?

We can’t keep saying we will land X or Y if we do this. It’s a very risky strategy in my eyes and I just can’t get behind it as is, unless Essendon are snorting coke and giving him away.

He's 29.
Giving up two first for us is a big deal for me. I know he’s been a durable player - but still.

I agree. I’m sure many posters feel similar.

He isn’t a top 10 talent unfortunately. He is a gun. But he isn’t that good.

I reckon the 4 sides playing this week all have atleast 1 top 10 player.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

What the hell is it

Geelong still have built from the draft and used free agency well.

The only mega trade was Cameron but they also sold Kelly for a kings ransom aswell.

We don’t have enough with what we have and we would be trading a kings ransom/our future for a 29 year old player.

Yes he is a gun. But he isn’t cheap collateral wise and that’s a big issue from our point.

If it goes ahead we just need to set the price we’re comfortable with and stick to it.
Quite feasibly though, Zac might bring intangible benefits through ufa’s wanting to come to us and become a part of our gold class midfield.

 

[stavro#4]

What the hell is it

If it goes ahead we just need to set the price we’re comfortable with and stick to it.
Quite feasibly though, Zac might bring intangible benefits through ufa’s wanting to come to us and become a part of our gold class midfield.

I understand that. But you weigh up all the pros and cons.

So set aside the sugar rush of landing him and now let’s explore what it looks like in 12 months time and no free agent wants to join.

What lever are we pulling to become better?

 

[bird_man]

All our best players are knocking on the door to 30.

Even if (massive IF) any/all of pou, wilson, owens, garcia etc become genuine A graders (which will take until they are 25/26)- all they will be doing is replacing our current A graders- steele, marshall, wilkie, sincs

Net result is us not being much (if any) closer to a flag than we are right now.

Our best chance at a flag is in the next 3 years.

After that- we are largely back to where we are now... midtable at best (even IF the likes of pou etc kick onto become genuine A graders)

The fact that all our best players are knocking on the door to 30 and we still sit where are proves how far we genuinely are from a flag.

Topping up to make us slightly more competitive just puts us further away in the long term.