List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Ricmel]

Scarily similar - so the only question is whether Max can keep it going for another 6 to 8 years.

Thing that jumps out to me in those stats is weight. Very surprised that King is heavier than Daniher, not by much but I would have bet Joe had 5-10kgs on King. Joe looks a lot stronger in one on ones.

The King deal is a good move by Saints. Maybe he won't turn out to be the next superstar but he is unquestionably a guy that can hold down a KPF role and always have an element of danger about him. You can build around that and barring injury (big if) the deal will be cheap in 4 years time.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Thing that jumps out to me in those stats is weight. Very surprised that King is heavier than Daniher, not by much but I would have bet Joe had 5-10kgs on King. Joe looks a lot stronger in one on ones.

The King deal is a good move by Saints. Maybe he won't turn out to be the next superstar but he is unquestionably a guy that can hold down a KPF role and always have an element of danger about him. You can build around that and barring injury (big if) the deal will be cheap in 4 years time.

Being heavier doesn't make you stronger , Max has no core strength at all hence why he gets pushed aside easily , 8 years is madness IMO as we will only end up getting 5 years worth at most due to him breaking down in one way or another

 

[stavro#4]

Scarily similar - so the only question is whether Max can keep it going for another 6 to 8 years.

Joe Daniher and Max King AFL Stats Comparison

Joe Daniher and Max King AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Joe, Max, Joe, Max - almost interchangeable!!

From the Pocket: Joe Daniher repays Brisbane’s faith on the biggest stages as ‘the sickness and the cure’

The enigmatic Lions forward can dazzle and disappoint in the same passage of play but saves his best for crunch moments and matches

www.theguardian.com

At face value, Joe Daniher is straight off the footballing peg. He’s 201cm, an excellent mark, a thumping kick and moves like a gazelle. If he was a yearling at the sales, they’d have taken one look at his bloodlines and his physical scope, and paid record prices for him.

But in the space of a game, in the space of a quarter, sometimes in the same passage of play, he’ll veer from the sublime to the farcical; from the totally inept to eye-poppingly good. Sometimes he’ll dominate a game from the opening whistle. Sometimes he’ll barely be present. Sometimes he’ll drift in and out of a game, like a cat hopping on a lap.

The football world has never quite known what to make of him. There’s a cottage industry of former champion forwards in the media who have always marked him harshly. He doesn’t fit the bill. He’s too casual. He doesn’t seem to care enough. And he doesn’t give them anything.

What makes him all the more frustrating and inscrutable is that he always exudes the same body language – whether he’s thwacking a goal from the boundary line or kicking sideways from the top of the goal square. Win or lose, big haul or bagel, he’ll chew his gum, shrug his shoulders, decline the interview and drive the two or so hours back to his home in the Byron Bay hinterland.

Only a certain type of coach could handle a player like that. “You need to say to someone like him, ‘Joe. We’ll wear your odd mistake,’” Leigh Matthews said on Footy Furnace several weeks ago. “‘You’ll make a bad decision every now and then.’ Because he’s an instinctive player. I heard people critiquing the coach saying, ‘he hasn’t been coached hard enough.’ But if Joe gets scared of making mistakes, and if we keep talking about what he’s not good at, he’ll lose confidence in himself.”

Matthews was always someone who could adapt his coaching to different personalities. He knew which players would respond to a bake, and which ones would capitulate. And he knew which players had to rigidly adhere to his systems and structures, and which ones had to be left to play on instinct.

At both Collingwood and Brisbane, he was also fiercely loyal to players who had performed for him in finals. That’s where Daniher has always excelled and where he’s earned his own coach Chris Fagan’s trust and forgiveness. Even at Essendon, he saved his best for the Anzac Day and Dreamtime at the ’G matches. For Brisbane, he scrambled the winning goal in the 2022 elimination final, was their best player in last year’s qualifying final, booted two crucial goals when the preliminary final was up for grabs and had the better of the All-Australian captain in the 2023 grand final.

The full gamut was on display in the semi-final against GWS Giants on Saturday night – the early miss, the wraparound handball from a Josh Dunkley set shot that he sent sailing out on the full, the field kick halfway through the final term where he U-turned and kicked it straight to his direct opponent. His coach chewed his gum a little more furiously, presumably thinking, “I could be at home with my grandkids building cubby houses rather than dealing with this bullshit, Joe.”

But in the madness of those final minutes, Daniher was the one who kept his cool. He found himself in the gutter, on the wrong side for a left-footer. When golfers hit a draw, they close their clubface more than usual and Daniher’s set shot, on a squally nigh, was the perfect draw. A few minutes later, he got separation from one of the best defenders in the game, Sam Taylor, and launched himself sideways. A month earlier against Collingwood, his tardy kicking arguably cost them the double chance. Now he’d put the Lions into a preliminary final.

Normally he projects a laconic air. But there he was, pumping his fists, screaming at his teammates. Then, in a rare interview, with players and spectators surely unable to process what had just happened, he was the only one making a syllable of sense. Just when you’ve given up on him, just when you think you’re out, he pulls you back in. Dwayne Russell, a considerably more excitable individual, called him “the sickness and the cure”.

Such is the Joe Daniher experience.

I think Daniher is a gun. So yes please. More King.

 

[SaintersUnite]

My gut feeling is Battle is whipped

Announced their engagement the other day.

“Go to Hawthorn so I can get this job they’ve offered me in the area.”

“But honey I love the Saints.”

“I’ll marry ya.”

“Done.”


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[CaptainRisky]

It’s now time for Max to go to the next level. Big bucks comes big responsibility and big pressure. He has to do everything he can to be the elite player we hope he will be.

Huge show of faith on behalf of BOTH parties to commit to each other.

No more indifferent body language. Time to take games by the scruff of the neck and dominate them.

Huge pre-season for him. Get ripped and super fit. Be so hungry he wants to eat a football.

Are you sure Max wants the Big Pressure of this contract , he looked like he wanted to cry at times this year , i can only imagine the years to come , 4 years would have been plenty

 

[SaintersUnite]

Do we have a look at Jarmaine Jones as small forward depth? Just been delisted by Wet Toast, is quite speedy and could cover when Butler is out. Gives Collard more time to develop if needed.
Does have some past off field discrepancies but who doesn’t nowadays.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SaintersUnite]

I think Daniher is a gun. So yes please. More King.

Hopefully Max doesn’t do the brain fades and massive ego things that Joe does though.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[CaptainRisky]

Wanganeen-Milera finished top 5 in our B&F in his 2nd year and has backed it up with another great year.
King finished equal 7th in his best year and has spent most of the last 2 years on the sidelines.
I know they play very different positions but I am much more confident in one of those player's ability to consistently contribute every week. King might kick 6.0 one game, 0.6 the next game, and then get injured the following game.

He is already signed until 2026. What is the rush? Gold Coast are also notorious for their ridiculous contracts which backfire 2 years later, we should definitely not be looking at them as an example.
The most concerning thing to me is why King would want to sign the biggest contract of his career after such a disappointing year for him. I would much prefer him to put contract talks on hold, back himself to win the Coleman medal for the next two years and show that he is worth much more than what we are offering now.

100% , Or he thinks I sign this long term deal , easy money and I'm secure instead of signing for another 2-3 , kicking ass and getting a massive 5 year deal

 

[seasonedsainter]

Dingley is a kip. I can't see the Kew set in the heartland liking the move at all. No more training sessions for little Noah Hugo and Amelia. Proximity to Springvale also a worry. Might want to schedule in some knife fighting sessions for the brat pack. And good luck to any St Kilda players skulking up the road for a purse full of silver, in the last two weeks Hawthorn have become the most hated team in the AFL. I hope you like being booed mercilessly and playing alongside a group of self-centred m1dgets with peanuts where they should have brains.

 

[CursingFijian]

I hear the Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

contract has a 50 game requirement in the first 4 to trigger the last.

All in all, I think it falls in to the good business category and sends a positive message to the wider industry about the Saints.

Players like LDU and Brayshaw and Houston, who may be considering a future at Moorabin, will be reassured by this.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Being heavier doesn't make you stronger , Max has no core strength at all hence why he gets pushed aside easily , 8 years is madness IMO as we will only end up getting 5 years worth at most due to him breaking down in one way or another

Then why does max take far more contested marks than Joe? Or are we just making unfounded statements

 

[CursingFijian]

So do we think the Zac Jones signing signals the end of any interest we have in Shiel, Kennedy, Peatling et al?

We’ve got just enough room now for a Soldo sized signing, I would have thought.

 

[bird_man]

Kennedy, Steele and Macrae would be the slowest least damaging midfield in the competition.

Not sure why we’d be linked to Kennedy.

Pump midfield minutes into Pou, Windy and even Garcia. Wilson looks like he could spend time inside next year. Hope that Dow shows a bit more this year.

At least Jones offers a point of difference as an extra.

 

[Joffaboy]

Then why does max take far more contested marks than Joe? Or are we just making unfounded statements

Facts don't fit the narrative, so conveniently ignore them.

Another fact, he signs a long term deal front ended with triggers, last 4 years are on lower $$ and as the SC and therefore salaries keep going up and up, it won't be a drag on the TPP and allow future list managers to make decisions without the encumbrance of a huge contract millstone around their necks.
Imagine King kills it for 4 years on 1.1 mill, he is out of contract 2029 and is worth 1.5 on the open market. Last 4 are worth say 600 on his contract. That's 3.5 mill the list manager doesn't need to find.
Oh and I am not keen on this contract BTW. Think it is too long, just trying to justify it from a financial and strategic perspective.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sauce_head]

Apparently you can use literally to mean metaphorically these days.

Well I literally heard it on the radio today anyway.

Well I wasn't literally on a radio.

Don’t get me started on the over used of literally. It feels like literally every English person does it and my head literally explodes with anger because they do it literally 24 hours a day.

Sorry English people, I literally love every one of you.

 

[sauce_head]

Wanganeen-Milera finished top 5 in our B&F in his 2nd year and has backed it up with another great year.
King finished equal 7th in his best year and has spent most of the last 2 years on the sidelines.
I know they play very different positions but I am much more confident in one of those player's ability to consistently contribute every week. King might kick 6.0 one game, 0.6 the next game, and then get injured the following game.

He is already signed until 2026. What is the rush? Gold Coast are also notorious for their ridiculous contracts which backfire 2 years later, we should definitely not be looking at them as an example.
The most concerning thing to me is why King would want to sign the biggest contract of his career after such a disappointing year for him. I would much prefer him to put contract talks on hold, back himself to win the Coleman medal for the next two years and show that he is worth much more than what we are offering now.

Didn’t Ben King get close to or over a million a year at GC a couple of years back? I’m sure the AFL are chipping in with “ambassador” payments, but even so, it shows what others are willing to pay if they get the chance. We don’t want to let them get the chance.

And we have cap room aplenty now.

 

[sauce_head]

Facts don't fit the narrative, so conveniently ignore them.

Another fact, he signs a long term deal front ended with triggers, last 4 years are on lower $$ and as the SC and therefore salaries keep going up and up, it won't be a drag on the TPP and allow future list managers to make decisions without the encumbrance of a huge contract millstone around their necks.
Imagine King kills it for 4 years on 1.1 mill, he is out of contract 2029 and is worth 1.5 on the open market. Last 4 are worth say 600 on his contract. That's 3.5 mill the list manager doesn't need to find.
Oh and I am not keen on this contract BTW. Think it is too long, just trying to justify it from a financial and strategic perspective.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Surely it’s riddled with performance measures.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Then why does max take far more contested marks than Joe? Or are we just making unfounded statements

I wasn't directly saying that Joe is a better mark than Max , I was just saying that Max has poor body strength , Id be betting 95% of Max's contested marks are when he fly's for the mark , not by out bodying someone

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Kennedy, Steele and Macrae would be the slowest least damaging midfield in the competition.

Not sure why we’d be linked to Kennedy.

Pump midfield minutes into Pou, Windy and even Garcia. Wilson looks like he could spend time inside next year. Hope that Dow shows a bit more this year.

At least Jones offers a point of difference as an extra.

I'd have no issue with Kennedy if we hadn't already committed to getting Macrae in the door.

Don't think we can have both.

I do rate Kennedy though. Reckon he's another one who has been pretty poorly treated by the Bloos.

 

[stavro#4]

Hopefully Max doesn’t do the brain fades and massive ego things that Joe does though.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Egos are the best part of key forwards.

A number of you severely underrate Daniher. He is a star who also lost a few seasons to injury.

If that’s all max becomes. We would be thrilled.

 

[luca77]

Don’t get me started on the over used of literally. It feels like literally every English person does it and my head literally explodes with anger because they do it literally 24 hours a day.

Sorry English people, I literally love every one of you.

Recently it's commentators saying "marking the ball at its highest point" that's been driving me a bit batty.
When the ball has gone about 10 metres up in the air and is on its way down as they mark it.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd have no issue with Kennedy if we hadn't already committed to getting Macrae in the door.

Don't think we can have both.

I do rate Kennedy though. Reckon he's another one who has been pretty poorly treated by the Bloos.

We have speed all over the ground.

Can’t see why we can’t have both. It’s not like Macrae Steele and Kennedy would all be starting at centre bounces together.

We need to build out this midfield group

 

[StFly]

Facts don't fit the narrative, so conveniently ignore them.

Another fact, he signs a long term deal front ended with triggers, last 4 years are on lower $$ and as the SC and therefore salaries keep going up and up, it won't be a drag on the TPP and allow future list managers to make decisions without the encumbrance of a huge contract millstone around their necks.
Imagine King kills it for 4 years on 1.1 mill, he is out of contract 2029 and is worth 1.5 on the open market. Last 4 are worth say 600 on his contract. That's 3.5 mill the list manager doesn't need to find.
Oh and I am not keen on this contract BTW. Think it is too long, just trying to justify it from a financial and strategic perspective.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

We dunno particulars, but given Tassie coming in and further draft disruptions being very likely, the length isn't as concerning for me. The "issues" will be how much capital and for how long will they be tied up in Ming.

We've always had a power forward as a club, BDE type, so I can understand when you have someone like Keeler on books that might be able to slot in, having 2x 2m+ KPF that are mobile, you sure up the BDE one and salivate.

 

[bird_man]

I'd have no issue with Kennedy if we hadn't already committed to getting Macrae in the door.

Don't think we can have both.

I do rate Kennedy though. Reckon he's another one who has been pretty poorly treated by the Bloos.

I think he’s definitely a decent footballer.

I’m not sure he’s been treated unfairly by Carlton though. He gets a game every week. His issue is though that the Blues have too many similar types and there are better mids ahead of him so he has to spend time in other positions.

He’d have the same issue with us I’d imagine and probably nearly every other club in the competition.

You need a point of difference in your midfield so unless you are elite as that one paced hall winner you are going to struggle to get a full game in the middle.

 

[Sheeza69]

I would have thougt a three or four year extension would have done the job. He is not Plugger.

He's had a Knee & shoulder reconstruction. He's having ongoing issues with both. It's clear that he's lost confidence in his body..What if he was shifted to the wing. Another player with similiar talent & attributes was shifted to the wing to devastating effect for his team in 2008..This player was aged 33 at the time & when shifted to the wing in Rd4 he came alive & so did his team. Was runner up in the Brownlow that yr & improved his team dynamics dramatically.. https://www.afl.com.au/.../richos-move-had-to-happen-wallace https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/777643/richos-move-makes-forwards-stand-tall