List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[austinnn]

Rookie lists increase by an extra spot next season don’t they?

Do they? Haven't seen or heard anything about that. I know that the length of time you can rookie list a player is set to increase from 3 to 5 years, but not sure about number of rookies.

Draft bidding and future picks revamp on hold, 'Jamarra rule' to change

The AFL Commission has approved a raft of player movement rule changes to come in over the next three seasons

www.afl.com.au

BTW, unconnected question: What is Zaine Cordy's contract status?

 

[longtimesaint]

Do they? Haven't seen or heard anything about that. I know that the length of time you can rookie list a player is set to increase from 3 to 5 years, but not sure about number of rookies.

Draft bidding and future picks revamp on hold, 'Jamarra rule' to change

The AFL Commission has approved a raft of player movement rule changes to come in over the next three seasons

www.afl.com.au

BTW, unconnected question: What is Zaine Cordy's contract status?

Contracted for 2025

 

[MordySaint]

Soldo reminds me of a modern day Lazar Vidovic.

Think we have a live one here.

Bit of character coming to the Saints.

 

[stavro#4]

Do they? Haven't seen or heard anything about that. I know that the length of time you can rookie list a player is set to increase from 3 to 5 years, but not sure about number of rookies.

Draft bidding and future picks revamp on hold, 'Jamarra rule' to change

The AFL Commission has approved a raft of player movement rule changes to come in over the next three seasons

www.afl.com.au

BTW, unconnected question: What is Zaine Cordy's contract status?

Might have confused myself then.

 

[Cleanupsoup]

How TF did Gulden go pick 32 and Warner at 39, can we have some of that please?

Gulden was Swans academy, so he was always ending up at Sydney

Warner's weaknesses before the draft were his speed and kick penetration, which I'd say are some of his strengths now given that he is 24th in the league for average metres gained per match.

Phenomenal development after getting drafted

 

[beside the seaside]

Lukoscious requested Port

 

[LazarPoodovic]

Soldo reminds me of a modern day Lazar Vidovic.

Think we have a live one here.

Bit of character coming to the Saints.

Oh yes, he most certainly does…

swoons

 

[austinnn]

Lukoscious requested Port

Intriguing! Charlie Dixon left a massive hole this year, is Lucoscious capable of reviving his potential back home and injecting some star power into this workman-like team? I'd like to see it.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Do they? Haven't seen or heard anything about that. I know that the length of time you can rookie list a player is set to increase from 3 to 5 years, but not sure about number of rookies.

Draft bidding and future picks revamp on hold, 'Jamarra rule' to change

The AFL Commission has approved a raft of player movement rule changes to come in over the next three seasons

www.afl.com.au

BTW, unconnected question: What is Zaine Cordy's contract status?

The definition of a dog’s breakfast.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Intriguing! Charlie Dixon left a massive hole this year, is Lucoscious capable of reviving his potential back home and injecting some star power into this workman-like team? I'd like to see it.

Not sure what their plans are but maybe they'll be using him down back to replace Houston?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Gulden was Swans academy, so he was always ending up at Sydney

Warner's weaknesses before the draft were his speed and kick penetration, which I'd say are some of his strengths now given that he is 24th in the league for average metres gained per match.

Phenomenal development after getting drafted

Phenomenal cover up before getting drafted?

 

[NextYearPlease]

Hayden McLean taken from Sandy too. Joel Amarty was a Sandy Dragons boy...

Amarty was our NGA, Swans took him at 28 in the rookie draft - we chose not to match. No one to blame here but ourselves.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NextYearPlease]

How TF did Gulden go pick 32 and Warner at 39, can we have some of that please?

You mean like Sinclare, Roma and Wilkie in the rookie draft?

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The_Steadier]

We should start contending in 2026 when the core are approaching 23-25

Higgins Clark Dow 27, Dow King Sharman Stocker will be 26, Henry Byrnes 25, Nas Windy Owens 23, Hammer Keeler 22, Pou 21 (but he plays beyond his years). Others will be 21ish (Wilson, Hugo, Arie, Hastie etc)

Add in someone like LDU/Brayshaw etc another in the 25-28 bracket. Plus the senior leaders. That's a good spread of players by age to start contending

I agree.
Although including guys like dow, clark, stocker, keeler as 'core' parts of a flag contending team 2 years from now is quite the stretch.

If guys like that are part of our core in 2 years- then they have either:

A. All had a major, massive out of this world improvement that rarely happens mid career; or
B. We don't actually have a flag contending team.

I agree with you that we could have a flag contending team in 2-3 years from now (while wilkie, sincs, steele, roma are still in their prime).
But I disagree with you saying that we can get that via a slow and steady approach.

To do it, we would need to roll the dice and take risks- for instance, try and get a brayshaw or ldu for 2 first rounders this year as "pre agents".
(because as a small vic club- we have 0% chance of getting guys at that level as free agents).

Without taking risks like that- we won't get a truly flag contending side before wilkie and co stop being A grade.

 

[Joffaboy]

Amarty was our NGA, Swans took him at 28 in the rookie draft - we chose not to match. No one to blame here but ourselves.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Prefer both Sharman and Caminiti myself.

Amarty would be 2MP type bad in anything less than a top 4 team.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The_Steadier]

Do you know when Gags finished up at St Kilda?
You might want to have a look at the list he walked into and the list when he left a few years later.

I knew I bookmarked this for a reason, here's the timeline:

Before he left- he re-signed battle in Aug 2022 to the contract which ends this year.
(When he was cemented as a clear best 22 player)

Battle won: Defender re-signs, question mark on veterans

Josh Battle extends his stay at Moorabbin for another two years, club turns to unsigned stars

www.afl.com.au

2023 (ie the first year of joshs current contract which gags signed) is the year that is used to determine whether josh is in the top 25% of our player payments or not.

Before he left in 2022- gags was in charge of setting our 2023 contract structure (ie who on paper is in our top 25% paid players).

Here we are in 2024- and at the start of this year, josh is given unrestricted free agent status.

Why?
Because of the contract gags signed him to in Aug 22 and how gags set our contracts up for 2023 before he left in december 2022.

would you like to revist your statement?

Too long didn't read?

Gags left in dec 22- before he did that, he re-signed battle for 2 years AND set the contract payments structure for the whole team in 2023.

Why does this matter?
Because in January 2024, battle was given unrestricted free agent status based on not being in our top 25% paid players in 2023.

How did that happen?
Our mate gags set it up that way before he left in dec 2022.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Prefer both Sharman and Caminiti myself.

Amarty would be 2MP type bad in anything less than a top 4 team.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

He would still be good to have on the list having cost nothing. He is now 25 yo which is a real void in our list profile, and is a capable 2nd ruckman. He is not perfect but he is a player with talent we over looked when we shouldnt have ala Hayden McLean. Sharman, Caminiti and even Keeler have a future, but it would be nice to have more talent on the list than we have.

The 2MP comment is a huge call, given that Amartey/McLean are much more mobile players than Wright.

 

[akaifu]

I agree.
Although including guys like dow, clark, stocker, keeler as 'core' parts of a flag contending team 2 years from now is quite the stretch.

If guys like that are part of our core in 2 years- then they have either:

A. All had a major, massive out of this world improvement that rarely happens mid career; or
B. We don't actually have a flag contending team.

I agree with you that we could have a flag contending team in 2-3 years from now (while wilkie, sincs, steele, roma are still in their prime).
But I disagree with you saying that we can get that via a slow and steady approach.

To do it, we would need to roll the dice and take risks- for instance, try and get a brayshaw or ldu for 2 first rounders this year as "pre agents".
(because as a small vic club- we have 0% chance of getting guys at that level as free agents).

Without taking risks like that- we won't get a truly flag contending side before wilkie and co stop being A grade.

We don't need a 23-man side of A-graders to win a premiership

I've listed, what, 19 players who CAN be core players and thats excluding the veterans and incoming players over next 2 years. Not all the guys I listed have to be stars or even be in the team. What separates premiership teams from finals teams is the quality of role players, and I think Clark & Stocker and maybe Keeler at least have a role to play in the future

King, Nas, Owens, Pou, Wilson etc will be the 'stars', but they need to be supported by a good core of role players. Guys like Frampton, Markov, Cox, Sidebottom, WHE all role players from last year's premiership team. Jkolo, Bews, Close, Rohan, Stanley from 2022

And I never said we should use a slow and steady approach. I just think we shouldn't force it like we did in 2020. We're clearly stocking up on young kids before we go hard at FA and trade from next year onwards. We are setting ourselves up for sustained success, not a 3-year sugar-hit

 

[Joffaboy]

He would still be good to have on the list having cost nothing. He is now 25 yo which is a real void in our list profile, and is a capable 2nd ruckman. He is not perfect but he is a player with talent we over looked when we shouldnt have ala Hayden McLean. Sharman, Caminiti and even Keeler have a future, but it would be nice to have more talent on the list than we have.

The 2MP comment is a huge call, given that Amartey/McLean are much more mobile players than Wright.

Don't think we need an ordinary forward. Not a reason we select him because he is a certain age.
Sharman and Caminiti would walk into his spot at Sydney.
That's my opinion. Probably will kick 6 in the granny now.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

Slow down Tommy. Your changing your tune quickly

“I think in Dan Houston

5

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

's case, he's got four years remaining on a deal … so Port have set a high price of two first rounders.

“But if you get offered pick seven or eight, you're not going to ask for a second 1st rounder.

“But if you get offered a pick in the teens, you probably want two of them.

“Either way, North Melbourne, Carlton and St Kilda … there’s a number of clubs keen on Houston and he will end up in Victoria.

 

[Saint Shags]

I knew I bookmarked this for a reason, here's the timeline:





Too long didn't read?

Gags left in dec 22- before he did that, he re-signed battle for 2 years AND set the contract payments structure for the whole team in 2023.

Why does this matter?
Because in January 2024, battle was given unrestricted free agent status based on not being in our top 25% paid players in 2023.

How did that happen?
Our mate gags set it up that way before he left in dec 2022.

Gags definitely had a part to play.

But if we let the current team off the hook then we are kidding ourselves.

We thought we could game the situation and get ourselves a nice tidy first round draft pick by letting one of our players go for the right price.

At the current time we don't know whether we will or won't get that pick.

What we do seem to have knowledge about is that we panicked late in the piece and tried to up the offer. And from all reports he still left for a lower amount.

If that reported lower amount is correct we have seriously shot ourselves in the foot because it is probably more likely that we get an end of 1st round.

IF that is the case heads in the current group need to be given the ****ing boot.
No ifs buts or maybes.

 

[The_Steadier]

We are setting ourselves up for sustained success, not a 3-year sugar-hit

I agree that we are tracking towards a period of 'sustained success' without rocking the boat too much from our current path.

But my point is that without taking risks and instead playing it safe (like trying to land elite mids as RFAs which has never come close to happening for a small vic club)- this 'sustained success' is not going to look like much.

It's just going to look like regularly making elimination finals and keeping clear of bottom 4 for 5 years.

Big whoopie I say.

I'd much rather see us take some risks while we have elite guys like wilkie, roma, sincs in their prime and push our ceiling towards real flag contention.

For instance, giving up on the fantasy of elite RFA mids, and instead throwing mega bucks and 2 first rounders around for guys like callahan, ldu, brayshaw etc.

I hope our informal enquiries for zac merrett are just the tip of the iceberg- and we really are trying bigtime to get guys like him, even if it does cost first round pick(s).

 

[SaintJunior]

Amarty was our NGA, Swans took him at 28 in the rookie draft - we chose not to match. No one to blame here but ourselves.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile appwas not NGA.

I know Wikipedia suggests otherwise but he was not tied to us under NGA.

The comment on Wikipedia is incorrect.

If not selected in the national draft he would have been eligible to be listed automatically, no bidding or matching system in rookie draft .

From memory 2017 was first year of NGA and we had no nominated players .

 

[akaifu]

I agree that we are tracking towards a period of 'sustained success' without rocking the boat too much from our current path.

But my point is that without taking risks and instead playing it safe (like trying to land elite mids as RFAs which has never come close to happening for a small vic club)- this 'sustained success' is not going to look like much.

It's just going to look like regularly making elimination finals and keeping clear of bottom 4 for 5 years.

Big whoopie I say.

I'd much rather see us take some risks while we have elite guys like wilkie, roma, sincs in their prime and push our ceiling towards real flag contention.

For instance, giving up on the fantasy of elite RFA mids, and throwing mega bucks and 2 first rounders around for guys like callahan, ldu, brayshaw etc.

I hope our informal enquiries for zac merrett are just the tip of the iceberg- and we really are trying bigtime to get guys like him, even if it does cost first round pick(s).

Yeah fair but the list managers would back themselves in to get the deals done. If we perform well next year and finish top 8 while Norf remain bottom 4 and Freo miss finals again, things could change very quickly in our favour

If we go all in on the next 3 years and fail, it's a long long road back because of Tassie coming in and ruining draft hands. Literally another decade of pain

We already have a really strong young brigade, but I think it requires one more year of drafting to become an elite young brigade

I do think we'll turn our attention to trading next year, hence the strong interest in Callaghan. By then, we'll have almost set the foundations with the young crop and would start hunting for the cream on the cake. We start contending in 2026, which is probably Wood's last year and Hill's 2nd last. Apart from that, Sinclair only 31, Row Steele 30 (both late birthdays), Wilkie 30. All those guys would have at least another 2 years - Wilkie probably 4+ considering KPP and late starter

As these guys start retiring, we'll have adequate replacements. LOC is being groomed into the Wood role I think and is VERY highly rated internally with his upside. Wilson/Byrnes takes Hill's role. Others will become clearer over time (Hastie for Sinclair, pick 7/8 for Steele, Heath/ruck for Row etc.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Not that keen on Soldo tbh. As long as he’s happy to play at Sandy most weeks.