List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[gringo2011]

Look its all mostly second hand but some of the stories around him from footballing circle mates and the like are deeply deeply concerning

The rumours around him are a worry.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

We made more from Spuds game than the whole of the rest of our home games.

We get to play GC at 4.45 pm on a July Sunday every year. Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond get multiple blockbusters every year. WA get two derby's, SA get two showdowns, etc.

Like the pres said, making up the numbers. They want us to be the Washington Generals.
Well f*** that.

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And the interstate “omg you get to play 87 games in Melbourne”. Yep, and with a smaller crowd than nearly all oppos even when at “home”.

 

[phantom13]

Simple solution to this issue.

For either F/S or academy players, the club must use their natural pick (ie: the pick linked to where they finished on the ladder).
If they do not have enough points at their natural pick to match the bid for the player, the deficit is rolled over against their natural picks in the same round in following years until the deficit is eliminated.
With this year and Ashcroft (the most extreme case): Richmond bids on Ashcroft at #1, Brisbane matches at #18. But the point deficit is automatically rolled over against their next first round draft picks in following years until it is eliminated.
Brisbane gets their F/S, Brisbane pays a reasonable cost but the cost is spread over multiple years and they still retain their future first round picks.
If multiple F/S or academy players are bid on in the first round (the GC situation from last year), the same thing applies: points deficit is rolled over into future years until eliminated.

Note:
I believe this system already exists (but not for F/S or academy).
IIRC, Fremantle went into deficit on a first round pick a couple of years ago.
It also applies for second, third and fourth round picks too.
More clubs have experienced deficits at these later rounds.

How do they eliminate the debt though? tax their first pick the next year and slide it back. Eg the Ashcroft example they would slide their first pick next year back to like pick 30 if they finish top of the ladder again?

 

[Joffaboy]

Sorry to intrude, but just wanted to say I could not agree more. I loved what Basset said, although I was obviously prejudiced to given I also support a small club. I hope this is a fire starter and I’d be incredibly grateful to the Saints if it was

Well you guys are hamstrung due to the draft concessions so beholden to the AFL a bit, but appreciate your post.

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[botts]

Look its all mostly second hand but some of the stories around him from footballing circle mates and the like are deeply deeply concerning

Loves the glass bbq.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

How do they eliminate the debt though? tax their first pick the next year and slide it back. Eg the Ashcroft example they would slide their first pick next year back to like pick 30 if they finish top of the ladder again?

Can only slide back to 18.
So if they were premiers again, the deficit carries in full over into the following year.
If they finished 9th, the deficit is reduced by the points difference between 9 and 18.

 

[stavro#4]

Can only slide back to 18.
So if they were premiers again, the deficit carries in full over into the following year.
If they finished 9th, the deficit is reduced by the points difference between 9 and 18.

And if they have an academy pick or father son every year they just maintain p18 and accrue a bigger draft deficit?

It doesn’t really resolve the problem around cost for the player.

 

[phantom13]

Can only slide back to 18.
So if they were premiers again, the deficit carries in full over into the following year.
If they finished 9th, the deficit is reduced by the points difference between 9 and 18.

Hmmm... Yeh not sure about that. If they finish top 4 for 10 straight years like a Geelong theyre getting the best kid in the draft for the difference between pick 14 and 18 for however long, feels like a pointless "deficit". Id rather it impacts them directly the following year personally.

Its part of the issue with any bidding system to me (and im not suggesting my solutuon is better than yours just a personal preference)

 

[Joffaboy]

Sorry to be a pain and I have been a part of it, but shouldn't the FS and NGA discussion be on the draft thread?

 

[Joffaboy]

Look its all mostly second hand but some of the stories around him from footballing circle mates and the like are deeply deeply concerning

Anything you can share or you would prefer not to?

 

[phantom13]

Anything you can share or you would prefer not to?

All the mostly known stuff its just the volume of it.

Hes not a "on the weekends i let my hair down" operator hes hitting recreational activities and pokies 5/6 nights a week.

 

[Joffaboy]

All the mostly known stuff its just the volume of it.

Hes not a "on the weekends i let my hair down" operator hes hitting recreational activities and pokies 5/6 nights a week.

yeah, well really it is a big concern. A contract to 2030 on a purported 1.1 million a year. Boy the Dees would have to pay at least half of that for me to be comfortable with recruiting him.

Sort of reminds me of Stringer, a great talent, but is a flawed individual and hasn't got the will power to get AFL fit. Once Stringer went off he always looked a bit under conditioned and never could get back to his best explosive best.

Can't remember Olivers form after 2021, but that will be four years ago in 2025, and it will have been at least two years since he was match hardened and fit. To risk him until 2030 is maybe a bridge too far.

 

[L_W_P]

If they are adamant about having FS/NGA picks them there are a few simple fixes:

No live trades when a bid comes in. This means you have to have your points ready to go on the night. Not enough? Too bad.

No discount on the points. The advantage is that you get to match the bid. The points only exist for the bids so what's the point in them being discounted?

Start there.

I'd also retroactively allow teams that haven't had NGA/FS under the old rules to "catch up". Saints and Dees both got ****ed so we are owed. Clubs like North, Richmond, Freo etc haven't had a crack at all so they should have some options banked.

AFL won't do it though.

They will change the rules on the fly, "fix" 3 problems while creating 4, and point to the 'eveness' of results and say "See, it's working!" While the same teams make the finals year on year on year.

 

[The Punter]

Richmond are the worst team. They finished last.

They should have unfettered access to Levi Ashcroft (and anyone else at pick 1), and if Brisbane want to get Ashcroft, they should have to satisfy Richmond.

Any system that denies the worst team to access to any player with pick 1 is unfair and cannot be fixed, only made less worse. End of.

 

[ScrappyDo]

yeah, well really it is a big concern. A contract to 2030 on a purported 1.1 million a year. Boy the Dees would have to pay at least half of that for me to be comfortable with recruiting him.

Sort of reminds me of Stringer, a great talent, but is a flawed individual and hasn't got the will power to get AFL fit. Once Stringer went off he always looked a bit under conditioned and never could get back to his best explosive best.

Can't remember Olivers form after 2021, but that will be four years ago in 2025, and it will have been at least two years since he was match hardened and fit. To risk him until 2030 is maybe a bridge too far.

Take a young group of talented kids who've done the hard yards and are on the edge of reaping the rewards, then bring in a fat idiot with a drug problem, pay him a million plus per year and watch how fast those kids disengage.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Why do we have a draft system?

Why do we invent ways of getting around that draft system?

 

[Sibaspud]

Take a young group of talented kids who've done the hard yards and are on the edge of reaping the rewards, then bring in a fat idiot with a drug problem, pay him a million plus per year and watch how fast those kids disengage.

Wouldn't going after Oliver be classed as a 'sugar hit' which would be contrary to the strategy outlined by the Prez last night?

 

[Mat Mann]

How do they eliminate the debt though? tax their first pick the next year and slide it back. Eg the Ashcroft example they would slide their first pick next year back to like pick 30 if they finish top of the ladder again?

yep that's how it works, and if 1st pick gets used up then it comes off of 2nd pick. But the points scale is wrong atm and it's what they, are fixing( hoping) next year, but doesn't address the discount

 

[Remboy]

We made more from Spuds game than the whole of the rest of our home games.

We get to play GC at 4.45 pm on a July Sunday every year. Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond get multiple blockbusters every year. WA get two derby's, SA get two showdowns, etc.

Like the pres said, making up the numbers. They want us to be the Washington Generals.
Well f*** that.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Didn’t we have to pay the AFL to get Spud’s game moved to the G?

 

[Premium]

How do they eliminate the debt though? tax their first pick the next year and slide it back. Eg the Ashcroft example they would slide their first pick next year back to like pick 30 if they finish top of the ladder again?

To fix the problem just let the teams who were btm 4 pick whoever they want - Father sons , Academy etc , this allows the worst teams the best players.
You can't keep allowing the best players go to the better teams as what will happen again this year

 

[Joffaboy]

Didn’t we have to pay the AFL to get Spud’s game moved to the G?

My quote was from Carl Delina the CEO. I think he would have the numbers to show he was telling the truth.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Player finish’s 3rd in your best and fairest and you can’t even mention or acknowledge it ? Pretty immature from the club, great standards they are setting

I agree I dont know what went on with the negotiations or texts, but surely the club are bigger than that petty stuff. I can understand the club being upset about him leaving but surely there has to be some level of maturity applied.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

So Perryman to the Pies I didn't see coming. Are they really saying he's on a bigger deal than Battle? Geez, all these multi millionaire bloody footy players all of a sudden, pretty crazy.

 

[phantom13]

yep that's how it works, and if 1st pick gets used up then it comes off of 2nd pick. But the points scale is wrong atm and it's what they, are fixing( hoping) next year, but doesn't address the discount

The issue isnt just the scale though its being able to bundle up a bunch of late picks to do it.

There has to be some equivalence in the mix (which an FS or academy club needing at the very least a round pick match does address).

 

[austinnn]

Yeah, it should be available to clubs, not a crazy if you don't take it for clubs. If they need to keep the romance alive, pay fair value for it.

Couldn't it Judy be as simple as demanding that the points cost for any one player can't be accumulated from more than 1 or 2 different picks?

That way, clubs can't add up 5 or 6 low value picks to get the currency required.