List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Banger9798]

If we get pick 9. Would we be against taking trainor? Or are we a bit worried about his concussion issues

While we don't know the details, I wouldn't want to take him with pick 9.
The protocols around concussion are only going to get tighter.. McCartin and Angus Brayshaw are the tip of the iceberg.
Taking an 18 year old with concussion history is an even bigger risk than it was 5 years ago.

 

[sauce_head]

If anyone wants to play: Is there a better deal for Essendon then one we can offer for P9.

Below is the current draft order 8/10 and DVI.

BID Needs to be worked off pick 7.

• Essendon can’t take back a first rounder this year as mentioned by Mat Mann
• Need to give currency for Kako, Dons will get a 20% reduction on the 1644 at P7. So you need to find 1315 points to match.
• club will need to provide a future first and likely finish below us.

View attachment 2135496View attachment 2135495

Would be great to see a post draft version of that that calculates “value realised” vs ladder position.

 

[Banger9798]

GC attaching pick 7 with Jack Bowes to Cats to get off his contract.

GC offering pick 6 for Dan Rioli.

Let's hope our man SOS is locked in convo's with GC to get in on this ridiculous activity.

GC deal with first round picks like we deal with 4th round picks.

 

[The Punter]

Probably waiting to see if we get anything for Membrey or Hayes first

Can't get anything for Membrey - he's a UFA

Hayes might be the variable (not a FA at all)

 

[Armoooo]

Nah this is different no comparison between the potential we have now in our young players compared to back then. I know some supporters are scarred from the last decade but we are really building now.

When I watched Brisbane in the GF it was really notable that our 2024 model was about 8 seriously good players away from that level.

NAS is already there, im confident he will be an AA quality player. If Windy, Pou, Wilson and Caminiti come on we're halfway there. We'd need the last handful to come from Schoenmaker, Collard and picks 7, 8 and 9/F1.

We don't have much margin of error right now, we need all those blokes to develop into the potential we are projecting onto them.

I don't think there are any guarantees that this group will take the next step that the previous group not only failed to do, but actually significantly regressed.

What worries me is that it seems more common these days for the elite players of the comp to announce themselves early (Daicos, Ashcroft, Sheezl, Wardlaw, Weddle, Lehman, Amiss, Watson, Pickett, JHF, Gulden, NAS, Reid, Darcy etc.). If we start seeing some of these guys enter years 4 and 5 with the potential tag still attached it is an area of concern.

 

[ThomasR]

Can't get anything for Membrey - he's a UFA

Hayes might be the variable (not a FA at all)

Pretty sure we got something for Battle

 

[Armoooo]

Pretty sure we got something for Battle

Yep, there's no difference in compensation potential between restricted and unrestricted free agents. The only difference is that clubs get the opportunity to match offers for restricted free agents.

The reason why unrestricted free agents don't attract compo picks is because they're not good enough to trigger the financial requirements to become a restricted free agent (in Membreys case it was because he's been delisted previously) and are therefore not good enough to meet the financial requirements at their new club to trigger a compo pick.

I believe Battle and Perryman are the first UFAs to trigger band 1 compensation, but I believe that would be due to the cap increases. I don't think we'll see it again for some time, probably when the next EBA goes through.

 

[Joffaboy]

When I watched Brisbane in the GF it was really notable that our 2024 model was about 8 seriously good players away from that level.



What worries me is that it seems more common these days for the elite players of the comp to announce themselves early (Daicos, Ashcroft, Sheezl, Wardlaw, Weddle, Lehman, Amiss, Watson, Pickett, JHF, Gulden, NAS, Reid, Darcy etc.). If we start seeing some of these guys enter years 4 and 5 with the potential tag still attached it is an area of concern.

Could say that about Sydney as well if you look at their Grand Final performance.

What were are short of are elite players. We have loads of potential and it is why it is important we nail two elite mids with 7+8. We need them to be Butters and Rozee types together and both to make it.
However as shown with a bottom four midfield, we are competitive against most top eight team with our list healthy and nowhere near 8 players off. that is North and WCE territory.

 

[Hayes4PM]

So Richmond are being offered pick 6 for Rioli apparently and they want MORE? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?

 

[akaifu]

So Richmond are being offered pick 6 for Rioli apparently and they want MORE? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?

Maybe we shouldn’t have delisted Matt Allison after all…

 

[triggering bro]

So Richmond are being offered pick 6 for Rioli apparently and they want MORE? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?

It’s insane. They are also demanding pick 14 for Liam Baker ffs.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yep, there's no difference in compensation potential between restricted and unrestricted free agents. The only difference is that clubs get the opportunity to match offers for restricted free agents.

The reason why unrestricted free agents don't attract compo picks is because they're not good enough to trigger the financial requirements to become a restricted free agent (in Membreys case it was because he's been delisted previously) and are therefore not good enough to meet the financial requirements at their new club to trigger a compo pick.

I believe Battle and Perryman are the first UFAs to trigger band 1 compensation, but I believe that would be due to the cap increases. I don't think we'll see it again for some time, probably when the next EBA goes through.

James Frawley was unrestricted.

So far there have only been 8 first round compensations awarded.
( Not counting this year, Perryman and Battle will make it 10 ).

 

[The Punter]

Pretty sure we got something for Battle

Fair enough - let's keep our fingers crossed someone offers Membrey a four year contract.

 

[Mat Mann]

We've been going really hard at the FA market next year every year for about a decade now and all we have to show for it are guys like Cordy and Nathan Brown as short term solutions and Crouch who was under a lot of doubt due to injuries and also just had a drug issue.

The quality FAs either get re-signed, are traded out as pre-agents or go to the big clubs.

There is no way on Earth we should be factoring in the possible acquisition of guys like Balta, Brayshaw or LDU. We need to assume we miss out on them and if we do get lucky and snag one, it's a bonus. Keep some salary available to entice them, sure, but don't discount the worth of future picks on the basis of bringing those guys in.

The other thing we need to remember is that AFL lists have four types of currency to bring in talent, salary cap space, picks, players that can be traded and what I feel is being overlooked is list spaces.

If we go all in on this year's draft, we will still need to take 3 picks next year. I don't want to see us bring in 3 list bloggers from the end of the draft.

it's a fair question and historically correct, our chances of getting a FA are low.
I heard once that a player doesn't want to be the 1st player to move, to be the bloke that it all rests on, to have that pressure from the outset. (and I think it bears out on scrutiny). which is what we've need them to be.

our drafting has been pretty good, I think there is enough talent on the list, esp if we include 7&8 in that, so now FA's might see that they are joining something and not that rock around which everything is built.

even if we don't get a FA, adding 9 this year brings their development fwd by a year, a year shorter for that player to add to the team whilst the older guys (Sincs, Wilkie, Ro etc..) are still firing, that'd make 5 1st rounders in 3 years

next year the rules change and we can trade up to 2 years in advance so we might be able to bring those fwd and step out of next year's compromised draft or the Tasmania draft.

as for list spots, wouldn't stress too much, a rookie upgrade can be considered as 1 of those compulsory 3, plenty of ways to fulfill that obligation

 

[Hayes4PM]

It’s insane. They are also demanding pick 14 for Liam Baker ffs.

Baker is a year younger and honestly I reckon just as good as Rioli. 14 for Baker seems like a fair starting point to negotiating, but 6 for Rioli is just... overs. Take that every day of the week Tiges.

 

[akaifu]

There’s no way 30 yr old Membrey’s 2-year contract on 450k max is getting us a compo pick

26 yr old Elliott Himmelberg

34

Elliott Himmelberg

Age

26

Ht

199cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.0

1star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

got 3 years and Adelaide got zero compo

 

[malevu]

Interesting take on some of the possibles in the bargain basement bin.

The eight VFL stars who should be given opportunities at AFL level

Campbell Brown's list.

www.sen.com.au

 

[triggering bro]

Baker is a year younger and honestly I reckon just as good as Rioli. 14 for Baker seems like a fair starting point to negotiating, but 6 for Rioli is just... overs. Take that every day of the week Tiges.

Both putrid deals imo. Tigers are being greedy and deliberately tanking their list. I hope nobody deals with them and they are left with the players tbh.

 

[Armoooo]

James Frawley was unrestricted.

So far there have only been 8 first round compensations awarded.
( Not counting this year, Perryman and Battle will make it 10 ).

Didn't realise that, looked into it and it appears he was unrestricted because his contract was heavily front ended so when he became eligible for free agency, his annual salary was comparatively low.

It all worked out for Melbourne though as they got pick 3 which netted them Brayshaw.

They probably front ended that contract before free agency was in place. I don't think clubs will front end deals for key players that are due to expire in a free agency eligible year going forward so I still don't think we'll see an UFA trigger band 1 again for some time.

 

[Minga]

Baker is a lot better than Rioli IMO.

Pick 6 for Rioli is absurd overs. Tigers would be absurd for asking for more if it was any other club but Gold Coast. Like taking candy from a baby.

I am still quite salty they gave Geelong Bowes and Pick 7 for free.

 

[akaifu]

Hope we keep and use our second round pick to bid on Tyler Welsh just to piss off these Crom rats

 

[JediSaint]

I like it, quite different to the template. I think Ough is a bit high especially if we take Smillie

Mine is:

1. FOS (RICH)
2. Ashcroft (BRIS)
3. Lalor (RICH)
4. Draper (WCE)
5. Jagga (ADEL)
6. Reid/Armstrong (MELB)
7. Tauru (NM)
8. Lombard (GC)
9. Smillie (STK)
10. Kako (ESS)
11. Langford/Lindsay (STK)
12. Travaglia (STK)

This draft is so up in the air.

I watch Jack Ough in the prelim and gf and everytime he ran into a pack he made an impact. His work rate around the ground was really impressive. He will be an awesome pick up. Plays forward, mid and defence.
He is also has links to the club.

 

[Armoooo]

Baker is a lot better than Rioli IMO.

Pick 6 for Rioli is absurd overs. Tigers would be absurd for asking for more if it was any other club but Gold Coast. Like taking candy from a baby.

I am still quite salty they gave Geelong Bowes and Pick 7 for free.

A players worth is the point where the holding team is prepared to accept an offer and the acquiring team is willing to pay up.

In a vacuum, I would value Rioli at pick in the early teens.

It is then down to the gamesmanship of the negotiators to attract more value in the trade.

Richmond know Gold Coast won't walk away from the deal. If we were in Richmond's position we'd want our guys really turning the screws to extract every last bit of value from am historically desperate club.

 

[Armoooo]

This draft is so up in the air.

I watch Jack Ough in the prelim and gf and everytime he ran into a pack he made an impact. His work rate around the ground was really impressive. He will be an awesome pick up. Plays forward, mid and defence.
He is also has links to the club.

I want Jack Off on the team just for his name.

 

[ThomasR]

Baker is a year younger and honestly I reckon just as good as Rioli. 14 for Baker seems like a fair starting point to negotiating, but 6 for Rioli is just... overs. Take that every day of the week Tiges.

Rioli is contracted, Baker isn't, that's the difference