USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Biden II

[Gethelred]

Okay, we've had a good run. Some have had a good laugh and others have melted a little, but from this point we're improving the standard of discussion.

The rules for the SRP are thus:

Mod. Notice - SRP Board Rules (Updated 26/03/2023) - MUST READ

The SRP board is a place to discuss all issues, events and ideas relating to society, religion and politics. Naturally, these topics attract some strong opinions and vocal posters. The purpose of these rules is to encourage positive discussions and contributions. You’ll note they are relatively...

www.bigfooty.com

... and I'd like you all to stick to them.

From the Trump threads:

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Play nicely from here, please.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Unfortunately no he wont because he benefits if dictators take control.

He doesnt want to trade with china. But has little care about regional disputes in the china south seas. Even the loss of semi conducter technology wont sway him.

Of course Trump cares about Taiwan. Not out of compassion for the people there but because of their technological and strategic significance for the US. Likewise, he couldn't give a shit about "moderate rebel groups" in Syria (and lo and behold, cutting their funding resulted in the collapse of ISIS). Nor could he give a shit about a few regional areas in eastern Ukraine which no one could even name let alone point out on a map but many are somehow passionate about now.

I know you have been honest in acknowledging that you are pro war in the past, so I ask... since WW2, which wars have the US been a part of in a way that were of net benefit to anyone outside of arms manufacturers or big oil?

 

[peetoo]

Yeah, the thing people need to remember is that Trump is not a 'normal' candidate.

He's literally the most polarising figure in US political history.

There's really no such thing as a 'swing' voter who wasn't going to vote for Trump, and then decided to support him after he was shot at by a Republican incel.

This stuff could boost voter turnout thogh

 

[Blue1980]

Hope you love this argument, it didnt take long after trump was out for a war to start did it...and then another one.

Biden made Putin invade Ukraine?

Biden caused October 7? Sure he had helped fund the response, which Trump has criticised him for not helping enough and called him a Palestinian in the debate!

Yep Mr anti war wants to support Israel MORE than Joe Biden….

 

[Blue1980]

Of course Trump cares about Taiwan. Not out of compassion for the people there but because of their technological and strategic significance for the US. Likewise, he couldn't give a shit about "moderate rebel groups" in Syria (and lo and behold, cutting their funding resulted in the collapse of ISIS). Nor could he give a shit about a few regional areas in eastern Ukraine which no one could even name let alone point out on a map but many are somehow passionate about now.

I know you have been honest in acknowledging that you are pro war in the past, so I ask... since WW2, which wars have the US been a part of in a way that were of net benefit to anyone outside of arms manufacturers or big oil?

Korea maybe?

I don’t think the above is a reason to just let Russia have Ukraine.

Are you anti what Israel are doing?

 

[Seeds]

The whole "Biden is responsible for the Ukraine war" trail of thought is directly at odds with the whole "Trump doesn't start wars" line.

If Trump doesn't start wars, then whats to stop China invading Taiwan if they believe Trump won't interfere?

Either admit you want to be isolationist, in which case Bidens response to the Ukraine war is basically what you want under Trump anyway; or admit that the last two democratic presidents also didn't start wars and Trump is nothing special.

Trump is like the schrodinhers cat of war.

Its also at odds with reality. Putin is responsible for the war in Ukraime.

 

[Vassp]

Biden made Putin invade Ukraine?

Biden caused October 7? Sure he had helped fund the response, which Trump has criticised him for not helping enough and called him a Palestinian in the debate!

Yep Mr anti war wants to support Israel MORE than Joe Biden….

that I agree with, not sure why Trump man is backing Israel, interesting to see how this pans out. I'm anti Israel BTW and anti-Middle east.

 

[Barrybran]

 

[Blue1980]

that I agree with, not sure why Trump man is backing Israel, interesting to see how this pans out. I'm anti Israel BTW and anti-Middle east.

It’s because of the Israel donor money, which has brought and sold both political parties.

While I hate Biden and the Dems stance on Israel, somehow Trump and the republicans are even worse.

Dems just paying lip service saying Israel need to be more targeted and withholding a tiny bit of weapons to Israel briefly (after giving them billions no questions asked before and after) is apparently enough for Trump to call Biden a Palestinian, and other Republican congressmen to claim Biden is anti Israel.

Biden is many things, anti Israel is not one of them.

 

[peetoo]

Cos they usually need their pension money more than a US president? Sunak obviously an exception

 

[Present Not Past]

Yes, but neither of them are convicted felons.
American politics is, especially now, a completely different species.
It's like comparing humans to reptiles.

 

[GreyCrow]

How do the Democrats pivot if - as it seems likely - they do?

The 1st problem is does Joe indeed step down? Given the rumblings and the money men murmuring its likely - using health as an excuse

But then is Kamala Harris the best person to move forward? We saw how difficult it was for Obama and already rumblings about Kamalas parents right to citizenship have been raised

THOUGH a few of these SHOULD disappear with the emergence of JD Vance and by extension his wife who is of Indian descent

Harris has the runs on the board as VP and would be a front runner - dropping her would cause even more mess than Biden quitting - but it can be done

Harris may choose - or be seen to choose a ''double or nothing'' ie she 'came in with Joe and leave with Joe' then be given a plum Cabinet position or Ambassadorship

Ipsos July 15 has Harris even and 1% behind Trump - which is better than the 10% I saw a week ago . I think with the focus on Harris this may increase or decrease on how she bonds with people

 

[Present Not Past]

How do the Democrats pivot if - as it seems likely - they do?

The 1st problem is does Joe indeed step down? Given the rumblings and the money men murmuring its likely - using health as an excuse

But then is Kamala Harris the best person to move forward? We saw how difficult it was for Obama and already rumblings about Kamalas parents right to citizenship have been raised

THOUGH a few of these SHOULD disappear with the emergence of JD Vance and by extension his wife who is of Indian descent

Harris has the runs on the board as VP and would be a front runner - dropping her would cause even more mess than Biden quitting - but it can be done

Harris may choose - or be seen to choose a ''double or nothing'' ie she 'came in with Joe and leave with Joe' then be given a plum Cabinet position or Ambassadorship

Ipsos July 15 has Harris even and 1% behind Trump - which is better than the 10% I saw a week ago . I think with the focus on Harris this may increase or decrease on how she bonds with people

She has had nearly 4 years to bond with people.
How has that gone?

 

[GreyCrow]

Who else if Harris chooses ride or die

The obvious is Newsom also from California and Whitmer a female from Michigan

Now most of dont care about location or sex but pollsters do

Harris and Newsom both from California will be a hard sell - basically saying the rest of the country doesnt matter - it leans into the lefty soy latte idea of Californians

Whitmer a Governor of Michigan would be a good running mate with Newsom but again not Harris - not because she couldnt do the job but the ticket of 2 females

Now the good thing is computer voting doesnt happen or all the incels would be forced out of their moms basement and that wont happen

But real world politics say this wont happen either

Which brings us back to other candidates - if ypu want to promote youth then Sanders isnt a chance

Personally I think a Whitmer/Newsom ticket would be my top choice but I could be persuaded of other players

 

[GreyCrow]

She has had nearly 4 years to bond with people.
How has that gone?

What do you think?

 

[GreyCrow]

I guess the whammy candidate is Michelle Obama but is this good for politics in general? I guess with Don and Ivanka positioning themselves into dynasties it may be passed over with no comment

There is no doubt both Michelle and Barack hold a special place in most Americans minds - but can they withstand the storm if she chooses to accept?

 

[GreyCrow]

One of the further problems facing any new candidate considering pushing in this cycle is how this will affect the 2028 chances when BOTH sides may have to have fresh faces

ie is Whitmer angling for 2028 - if elections are held of course

 

[Present Not Past]

What do you think?

Vice Presidents generally don't go on to serve as Presidents.
Joe Biden is the exception.
But that was done only because Democrats are liberally minded.
Maga on the other hand are fascists.

 

[GreyCrow]

Vice Presidents generally don't go on to serve as Presidents.
Joe Biden is the exception.
But that was done only because Democrats are liberally minded.
Maga on the other hand are fascists.

Joe also had a lucky bounce with Covid and peoples reaction against the incumbent

There has only been one VP in the last 50 years on either side that has gone on to be President and thats Bush Sr after the Dems put up the vanilliast vanilla candidate ever in Dukakis

Nixon also had a gap between his time as VP and as President

I just think in the current circumstances Harris is the front runner

 

[Present Not Past]

Joe also had a lucky bounce with Covid and peoples reaction against the incumbent

There has only been one VP in the last 50 years on either side that has gone on to be President and thats Bush Sr after the Dems put up the vanilliast vanilla candidate ever in Dukakis

Nixon also had a gap between his time as VP and as President

I just think in the current circumstances Harris is the front runner

Given what you said in your post, to say that Kamala Harris is the Democratic front runner is confusing.
Surely there are people in the Democratic Party who are prepared to step up?

 

[GreyCrow]

Given what you said in your post, to say that Kamala Harris is the Democratic front runner is confusing.

I said in the current circumstances

If Biden had said right from the start he is a 1 term President then Harris would start slightly ahead in the nomination runoff with many many candidates. There isnt time to do that so it will/may be an anointing of Kamala ie she becomes the front runner

 

[DaTBird187]

Is that Murray from Flight of the Conchords?

 

[happy_eagle]

Who else if Harris chooses ride or die

The obvious is Newsom also from California and Whitmer a female from Michigan

Now most of dont care about location or sex but pollsters do

Harris and Newsom both from California will be a hard sell - basically saying the rest of the country doesnt matter - it leans into the lefty soy latte idea of Californians

Whitmer a Governor of Michigan would be a good running mate with Newsom but again not Harris - not because she couldnt do the job but the ticket of 2 females

Now the good thing is computer voting doesnt happen or all the incels would be forced out of their moms basement and that wont happen

But real world politics say this wont happen either

Which brings us back to other candidates - if ypu want to promote youth then Sanders isnt a chance

Personally I think a Whitmer/Newsom ticket would be my top choice but I could be persuaded of other players

Pete Buttigieg could be considered if you want a good talker/debater. He'd wipe the floor with Vance in a debate.

 

[10571z]

Looking forward to the Democrats twisted tails to explain Biden pulling out.

Just when you’ve spent 3 years telling the public he is fine and wtf are they talking about.

Unfortunately Biden is just to old it’s a shame because he should have had his chance many years before now. He is having a sharp decline.

Clinton was elected in 1993 and is today younger that both candidates.

 

[Spearman]

How do the Democrats pivot if - as it seems likely - they do?

The 1st problem is does Joe indeed step down? Given the rumblings and the money men murmuring its likely - using health as an excuse

But then is Kamala Harris the best person to move forward? We saw how difficult it was for Obama and already rumblings about Kamalas parents right to citizenship have been raised

THOUGH a few of these SHOULD disappear with the emergence of JD Vance and by extension his wife who is of Indian descent

Harris has the runs on the board as VP and would be a front runner - dropping her would cause even more mess than Biden quitting - but it can be done

Harris may choose - or be seen to choose a ''double or nothing'' ie she 'came in with Joe and leave with Joe' then be given a plum Cabinet position or Ambassadorship

Ipsos July 15 has Harris even and 1% behind Trump - which is better than the 10% I saw a week ago . I think with the focus on Harris this may increase or decrease on how she bonds with people

These questions would be the topics of furious discussions going on for the past month. There will be hints and leaks, but the convention will be the thing. How well they stage whatever decision they've come to, and maybe how much freedom they allow the delegates to be a part of it, will be massive. They must gain momentum from it.
I think they will be conservative and back Harris. The new VP pick will be a male, probably white and not from CA. Whether it is a young star like Buttigieg or an older one for optics I don't know. She is deep establishment, so maybe he would lean a little proggy.

 

[Spearman]

She has had nearly 4 years to bond with people.
How has that gone?

Americans don't bond with veeps.