USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Crankyhawk]

Oh you mean just after Obama had complete control of the House and the Senate and did nothing?

yes, for 2 years. Probably distracted by the ongoing "get bin laden" and other stuff which I will freely admit I was not paying close attention (was studying for my own postgraduate exams). Maybe there was split between their progressive and their donor factions? But I really don't know

 

[pjcrows]

Because he was stupid enough to try and negotiate?

Stupidly convenient. Almost like he was never going to do anything when he had the chance.

You're close, mate!

 

[Crankyhawk]

You think Trump will actually change the global reach of the US military?

well, yes, bring them home to enforce his policies on those pesky blue states...

 

[Crankyhawk]

I find it interesting you brought up Romney. I remember when the 2012 election was so important because Romney was an existential threat.

Was that a thread here at the time? And maybe it was more that at the time the tea party nutters backing Romney being a threat to "progressive" views (and maybe a significant pro obama bias too)

 

[pjcrows]

yes, for 2 years. Probably distracted by the ongoing "get bin laden" and other stuff which I will freely admit I was not paying close attention (was studying for my own postgraduate exams). Maybe there was split between their progressive and their donor factions? But I really don't know

Again - "gosh darn it, those poor Democrats, can't get anything done because of those pesky obstructionists!"

That's the job of a President and party leadership. To advocate and champion policy that benefits the people.

 

[Aussie in exile]

You think Trump will actually change the global reach of the US military?

Without a doubt.
He will withdraw all military aid to Ukraine for starters and then the Pacific.
When people's taxes rise as they will to cover the extra military spending it will be because of tRump withdrawing US forces from the Pacific.

 

[CM86]

Stupidly convenient. Almost like he was never going to do anything when he had the chance.

You're close, mate!

Oh, he might have been secretly doing what Trump is openly doing.

And that's why you won't vote against Trump.

Gotcha.

 

[CM86]

My overall conscience? Calm down mate. It was a fair point and there's certainly nuance in the discussion.

So no, you didn't reconsider anything.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Again - "gosh darn it, those poor Democrats, can't get anything done because of those pesky obstructionists!"

That's the job of a President and party leadership. To advocate and champion policy that benefits the people.

they can't even organise their own ****ing party..

they can't sack the obstructionist types who seem to have local popularity

they can't discipline them

they could pork barrel them but everyone loses from that

they are ill disciplined rabble

 

[CM86]

Again - "gosh darn it, those poor Democrats, can't get anything done because of those pesky obstructionists!"

That's the job of a President and party leadership. To advocate and champion policy that benefits the people.

I know that Trump supporters are against separation of powers in general.

But most people still support it.

And if you want to try and pretend that the Republicans didn't exist purely as an obstructionist party, then you're either completely unaware of politics, or you're lying.

 

[pjcrows]

Was that a thread here at the time? And maybe it was more that at the time the tea party nutters backing Romney being a threat to "progressive" views (and maybe a significant pro obama bias too)

Was there a Big Footy thread on it 12 years ago? No idea. Probably.

I do have a memory of the election campaign though. It was absolutely paramount that Romney lost or the US would turn in to The Handmaid's Tale.

 

[pjcrows]

Without a doubt.
He will withdraw all military aid to Ukraine for starters and then the Pacific.
When people's taxes rise as they will to cover the extra military spending it will be because of tRump withdrawing US forces from the Pacific.

You think Trump will leave the Pacific, giving China open slather? Based on what?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Was there a Big Footy thread on it 12 years ago? No idea. Probably.

I do have a memory of the election campaign though. It was absolutely paramount that Romney lost or the US would turn in to The Handmaid's Tale.

My vague recollection was that was the narrative around Pence and how he would only interact with women if there was a witness.

Or maybe Romney had backing of the evangelical types (the ones who are really pushing handmaids tale type project 2025 crap)

When I hear evangelical I immediately think of the hypocrisy detailed in many issues of MAD magazine in the 80s/ 90s

 

[bourbons]

That's the job of a President and party leadership. To advocate and champion policy that benefits the people.

Yet another aspect Democrats are miles in front of Trump on. No one cares.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You think Trump will leave the Pacific, giving China open slather? Based on what?

China sending hookers to the White house free of charge.

 

[pjcrows]

Oh, he might have been secretly doing what Trump is openly doing.

And that's why you won't vote against Trump.

Gotcha.

Well I can't vote, I'm not a US citizen.

But no, I wouldn't vote for Harris just to "stop Trump". I already said that.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I know that Trump supporters are against separation of powers in general.

But most people still support it.

And if you want to try and pretend that the Republicans didn't exist purely as an obstructionist party, then you're either completely unaware of politics, or you're lying.

I think it was more my point about obstructionist democrats who objected to policy change rather than obstructionist republicans. Talking about 2008-2010 where Obama had both the house and senate.
Though (and maybe I have dates wrong, apologies if so) wasn't there some GFC thing happening which was cratering shit in the USA..

 

[OneGreatClub]

US citizens can vote for Harris, Trump, Third Party (depending on who is balloted in your state).or not vote at all (which is actually the majority).

I'd most likely vote Third Party or not at all at this election.

What a waste of a vote

 

[CM86]

Well I can't vote, I'm not a US citizen.

OK...

Why do you post that kind of thing, other than as an insult of some kind?

It's almost always a response from "I don't support trump" Trump supporters, when they are pushed on an issue.

'It doesn't matter, because I can't vote in the US election anyway! (hmm smug)'

But no, I wouldn't vote for Harris just to "stop Trump". I already said that.

Why wouldn't you do the bare minimum, to stop Trump?

This is from my perspective.


So please help me understand your perspective, where there isn't any reason to put the minimum effort in to oppose the next Trump presidency.
Why are you ok with Trump being the next US President? (without just saying that the Dems won't reach a high enough standard). Because that is bullshit.

 

[pjcrows]

I know that Trump supporters are against separation of powers in general.

But most people still support it.

And if you want to try and pretend that the Republicans didn't exist purely as an obstructionist party, then you're either completely unaware of politics, or you're lying.

When did I say the Republicans aren't obstructionist?

You are very good at putting words in other people's mouths.

I'm referring to Obama's first two years, which is what I consider to be pivotal in the US's trajectory as a country ever since.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[pjcrows]

OK...

Why do you post that kind of thing, other than as an insult of some kind?

It's almost always a response from "I don't support trump" Trump supporters, when they are pushed on an issue.

'It doesn't matter, because I can't vote in the US election anyway! (hmm smug)'


Why wouldn't you do the bare minimum, to stop Trump?

This is from my perspective.


So please help me understand your perspective, where there isn't any reason to put the minimum effort in to oppose the next Trump presidency.
Why are you ok with Trump being the next US President? (without just saying that the Dems won't reach a high enough standard). Because that is bullshit.

If you can't understand it, what you're telling me is you haven't read anything I've posted today.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Again - "gosh darn it, those poor Democrats, can't get anything done because of those pesky obstructionists!"

That's the job of a President and party leadership. To advocate and champion policy that benefits the people.

The dems have passed more pieces of major legislation under Biden than Trump even dreamed of.

But i do like you suggesting that advocating and championing policy that benefits people would gain more GOP votes. That's just bizarre re-writing of reality.

 

[CM86]

When did I say the Republicans aren't obstructionist?

You are very good at putting words in other people's mouths.

I'm referring to Obama's first two years, which is what I consider to be pivotal in the US's trajectory as a country ever since.

When did I say that you said that the Republicans aren't obstructionist?

You are very good at putting words in other people's mouths.



I'm referring to the fact that Obama attempted to negotiate everything through the opposition, in good faith. And it was blocked in the brief period of the 16 years you were just talking about.
And then after it was too late, and he lost the the houses and couldn't pass anything, we were told executive order was Hitler-esque.

So yes. You can pretend that the Republicans aren't at fault, again. And that the 2 years out of 16, that not enough happened, was the Dems fault.

Or, you can be honest and discuss how the systems work and are designed. And how the Republicans have actively stepped out of those restrictions in order to destroy outcomes they don't want.

 

[CM86]

If you can't understand it, what you're telling me is you haven't read anything I've posted today.

Ok.

If you can't defend your positions, you should reconsider why you hold them.