USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Ohitsthatguy]

Looking forward to Trump’s tweets

 

[Romeoh1]

You've always been a savage and vindictive woman...

I agree that character is relevant, and Don is a fiend of the lowest order, but I'm not comfortable in dismissing the worst of Harris as a strategic gambit.

Voting for someone in the hope or expectation that they'll come good later on seems fraught, especially if there is nothing in their current iteration which reassures you about the future.

Well maybe concentrate on the best of her- at least she has a better, and a best.

 

[JB1975]

Well maybe concentrate on the best of her- at least she has a better, and a best.

I hear what you're saying, Romeoh, and I've made some points in relation to this.

Against the depravity and fascist tendencies of Trump, and The Handmaid's Tale nightmare which lurks in the background, there is considerable pressure to overlook the sad fact that the other candidate is intent upon enabling genocide and (it seems) widening the conflict in the Middle East.

For many people the choice doesn't feel so straightforward.

I'd say that the declining support for Albanese in Australia is, partly at least, a reflection of the same dynamic.

 

[GreyCrow]

RCP looking grim yet again, almost back to Biden/Trump era figures

View attachment 2138623

View attachment 2138624


Although from this map all it would take is two of Pennsylvania, Michigan, North Carolina and Georgia to flip it back to Harris.

If their polls are anything like their front page I ain't buying it.

Not sure unbiased is correct but I'll have a closer look at home

 

[liz]

I hear what you're saying, Romeoh, and I've made some points in relation to this.

Against the depravity and fascist tendencies of Trump, and The Handmaid's Tale nightmare which lurks in the background, there is considerable pressure to overlook the sad fact that the other candidate is intent upon enabling genocide and (it seems) widening the conflict in the Middle East.

For many people the choice doesn't feel so straightforward.

I'd say that the declining support for Albanese in Australia is, partly at least, a reflection of the same dynamic.

I share your discomfort on Middle East policy (here as well as the US). But the stark reality is that the only other choice offers an even less palatable attitude towards the Middle East.

 

[happy_eagle]

If their polls are anything like their front page I ain't buying it.

Not sure unbiased is correct but I'll have a closer look at home

It leans right, which is one of the reasons I like to look at it (to avoid confirmation bias).

 

[JB1975]

I share your discomfort on Middle East policy (here as well as the US). But the stark reality is that the only other choice offers an even less palatable attitude towards the Middle East.

Don is less coherent on these issues, but likely less palatable as well. It's hard to disagree.

But we know precisely where Harris stands on Gaza, on Israel, and we're starting to get a sense of her hawkish approach to Iran.

One of her first statements of direction was to guarantee that the US would be the most lethal fighting force in the world.

I perfectly understand why many Democrat voters would find it impossible to signal their support for such things.

 

[FruitTingles]

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I hear what you're saying, Romeoh, and I've made some points in relation to this.

Against the depravity and fascist tendencies of Trump, and The Handmaid's Tale nightmare which lurks in the background, there is considerable pressure to overlook the sad fact that the other candidate is intent upon enabling genocide and (it seems) widening the conflict in the Middle East.

For many people the choice doesn't feel so straightforward.

I'd say that the declining support for Albanese in Australia is, partly at least, a reflection of the same dynamic.

I think this sort of talk is disingenuous. To mark Harris / Biden down because of their position on Israel is fine, but stopping there is not. It's quite clear that Trump would be the same or even more of a simp to Bibi, so if you're making a choice then this issue doesn't decide it. You would need to mark them both down by the same amount.

The choice is still straightforward, except for those looking for reason to justify their (hidden) hope that Trump will win.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Don is less coherent on these issues, but likely less palatable as well. It's hard to disagree.

But we know precisely where Harris stands on Gaza, on Israel, and we're starting to get a sense of her hawkish approach to Iran.

One of her first statements of direction was to guarantee that the US would be the most lethal fighting force in the world.

I perfectly understand why many Democrat voters would find it impossible to signal their support for such things.

However by not voting for her they herald in this

 

[JB1975]

I think this sort of talk is disingenuous. To mark Harris / Biden down because of their position on Israel is fine, but stopping there is not. It's quite clear that Trump would be the same or even more of a simp to Bibi, so if you're making a choice then this issue doesn't decide it. You would need to mark them both down by the same amount.

The choice is still straightforward, except for those looking for reason to justify their (hidden) hope that Trump will win.

Voting is the only signal that most people can give in a democracy. However you want to cut it, a vote for Harris is a clear signal of support for genocide, and likely a wider war with Iran.

A lot of people are simply having difficulty in getting around that fact.

To categorise this election as a 'straightforward choice' is to ignore the thousands of mutilated bodies which people would have to crawl over in order to vote for the Democrats.

 

[JB1975]

However by not voting for her they herald in this

Oddly enough, there's nothing in that clip which suggests anything worse for Palestinians that what they're currently suffering under Biden/Harris.

I think it's okay for people to admit that they just don't think a genocide and Israel's unbridled aggression in Lebanon and elsewhere is important enough to influence their choice.

Other people refuse to signal their support for such things.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'm being too easily misunderstood, and the likes and loves of FireKrakouer are not helpful.

On a day of glorious revolution, FK and his ilk would be summarily shot and/or forced to drink light beer.

Harsh. FK is a humble worker tradie bee.

 

[JB1975]

Harsh. FK is a humble worker tradie bee.

He's a known provocateur and I'm not sure he's humble.

Deserves a lifetime sentence of warm light beer.

 

[Crankyhawk]

ooooo, so giving vital clinical equipment to Russia, when US citizens need it and are dying, is okay with you.

Disgraceful.

Look that incident I can understand as a diplomatic tool to get favor from the leader of another country.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

I get your point JB1975 but isn't it a classic case of cutting off a nose to spite your face?

If you're politically engaged you know the danger another Trump presidency holds

If he loses this election he's finished, he'll be too old to challenge again and his cult will die with him

Only then can the GOP get pack to some normalcy

 

[Crankyhawk]

I hear what you're saying, Romeoh, and I've made some points in relation to this.

Against the depravity and fascist tendencies of Trump, and The Handmaid's Tale nightmare which lurks in the background, there is considerable pressure to overlook the sad fact that the other candidate is intent upon enabling genocide and (it seems) widening the conflict in the Middle East.

For many people the choice doesn't feel so straightforward.

I'd say that the declining support for Albanese in Australia is, partly at least, a reflection of the same dynamic.

Both candidates would continue to enable the genocide so this should not be a point of differentiation

 

[Crankyhawk]

He's a known provocateur and I'm not sure he's humble.

Deserves a lifetime sentence of warm light beer.

With cost of living it might be all he can afford.. but more seriously I recall he gave up the booze

 

[Satan]

Look that incident I can understand as a diplomatic tool to get favor from the leader of another country.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/trump-revealed-intelligence-secrets-to-russians-in-oval-office-officials-idUSKCN18B2MM/

 

[JB1975]

I get your point JB1975 but isn't it a classic case of cutting off a nose to spite your face?

If you're politically engaged you know the danger another Trump presidency holds

If he loses this election he's finished, he'll be too old to challenge again and his cult will die with him

Only then can the GOP get pack to some normalcy

There's a certain amount of mental gymnastics in all of this.

If you understand your vote as a positive affirmation, and consider it the most meaningful statement you can make within the system, can you understand why some people might find it utterly impossible to 'affirm' what has occurred under Harris/Biden, and what will certainly worsen under Harris/Walz?

That Trump will be worse is certain. He's not getting my vote. Still, this fact doesn't make a gesture of support for genocide more palatable.

 

[Present Not Past]

‘It’s mindblowing’: US meteorologists face death threats as hurricane conspiracies surge

Storms Helene and Milton have triggered rise of misinformation stoked by Trump and fellow Republicans

www.theguardian.com

Election interference using the weather.

 

[Present Not Past]

However by not voting for her they herald in this

Yet his closest friend, Putin, has an alliance with Israel's greatest threat - Iran.
Who is he going to protect?
Probably himself.