USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Financialpanther]

Interesting to see the block of "internal polling" being spat out by the Trump campaign, showing he's leading in all 7 swing states and is close to tied nationally. A broader collection of polls indicates a more even spread of leads between Trump and Harris, with Harris winning nationally.

If the Trump polling was true and you were confident in it, you wouldn't leak that polling. You'd stay on message and keep going rather than trying to shift the narrative/muddy the waters.

Continually posting positive polls is not a great move as it either inspires the opponents or makes them complacent to vote.

May not make much of a difference but this isn’t the flex right now

 

[GrayRanga]

Interesting to see the block of "internal polling" being spat out by the Trump campaign, showing he's leading in all 7 swing states and is close to tied nationally. A broader collection of polls indicates a more even spread of leads between Trump and Harris, with Harris winning nationally.

If the Trump polling was true and you were confident in it, you wouldn't leak that polling. You'd stay on message and keep going rather than trying to shift the narrative/muddy the waters.

It seems counter productive.

The election will be won or lost on mobilising the non rusted on of either party to get out and vote.

If it is promoted that a Republican win is a lay down Miserere. it may actually force the those that have doubts in Trump's ability to govern for the country to vote for the Democrats, or keep the Republicans at home because they believe they will win.

Personally, I can't understand the mentality of the US, promoting themselves as being patriotic. but failing to be motivated to get off their arses and make a decision as to which Candidate will improve the standard of living, the lives, health and education of themselves, their kids and their neighbours and therefore improve their country

 

[Gough]

It seems counter productive.

The election will be won or lost on mobilising the non rusted on of either party to get out and vote.

If it is promoted that a Republican win is a lay down Miserere. it may actually force the those that have doubts in Trump's ability to govern for the country to vote for the Democrats, or keep the Republicans at home because they believe they will win.

Personally, I can't understand the mentality of the US, promoting themselves as being patriotic. but failing to be motivated to get off their arses and make a decision as to which Candidate will improve the standard of living, the lives, health and education of themselves, their kids and their neighbours and therefore improve their country

It's just conditioning Trump supporters to refuse to accept a loss.

 

[JB1975]

Again, totally disingenuous because on the Israel / Iran issues, Trump is no different and possibly worse. We all hate what is happening in the Middle East, but it's not something that differentiates the candidates.

So again, that issue doesn't "move the needle" so it just looks like people justifying hidden Trump support (I include those who liked your post).

You're right, the position on genocide doesn't differentiate the candidates. My view is that it goes a long way to defining both of them.

There's nothing 'disingenuous' in my position. Or 'hyperbolic'. The logic of it is clear enough. The Biden/Harris government has enabled the slaughter of tens of thousands of people in Gaza and it has taken a more heavy-handed approach to criticism of its actions at home. It pushes an IHRA definition of antisemitism in order to circumvent discussion/debate and encourages authorities to crush protest. It embraces a war criminal within its halls of power.

That is the reality.

Harris/Walz promises more of the same and more, but you don't think it's okay for people to not support this. You think that they should look past the bodies, ignore the mockery of international law and humanity, close their eyes and kiss Kamala because we all know that Trump is even more repugnant.

No one's denying that Trump is a monster, and yet Biden/Harris/Walz are monstrous (sorry Tim). But instead of criticising the dynamics which have created this horror show, or the actors who are starring in it, you'd rather level your angst at the horrified.

The absence of their vote is the only weapon these people have. If instead they give it to Harris, it amounts to a silencing of the self. How else are they to be heard?

You don't have to agree with the position or the logic which leads to it, and I acknowledge that there is room for discussion around the issues. I'm not inclined to tell people that they shouldn't vote for Harris. But to dismiss the position as 'disingenuous' suggests a serious failure to reckon with the implications of what is happening in Gaza and beyond.

 

[JB1975]

Interesting to see the block of "internal polling" being spat out by the Trump campaign, showing he's leading in all 7 swing states and is close to tied nationally. A broader collection of polls indicates a more even spread of leads between Trump and Harris, with Harris winning nationally.

If the Trump polling was true and you were confident in it, you wouldn't leak that polling. You'd stay on message and keep going rather than trying to shift the narrative/muddy the waters.

It was about this time last election that Team Trump started making noises about a shady election.

It's not unreasonable to think that heightening expectations is part of a similar strategy this time around.

 

[JB1975]

This is astute.

 

[Financialpanther]

It was about this time last election that Team Trump started making noises about a shady election.

It's not unreasonable to think that heightening expectations is part of a similar strategy this time around.

The cornerstone of Donald's approaches, is they aren't new or creative. He is playing all his old hits down the same talking points and tired insults that will extend to making baseless claims of voter fraud.

Any election where he doesn't win outright by a big margin in his mind will always be shady regardless of whether there is any evidence.

 

[Maggie5]

I'm a little confused, isn't the fact that the ad is still running means that free speech has been protected?

No, the ads are still running because media is ignoring the cease and desist. Anyway doubt that it will succeed, just crazy even trying. Next step the courts.

I do like the law they are invoking - 'sanitary nuisance'

Nuisances injurious to health is generally defined as:

• Untreated or improperly treated human waste, garbage, offal, dead animals, or dangerous waste materials from manufacturing processes, air pollutants, gasses, and noisome odors which are harmful to human or animal life
• Improperly built or maintained septic tanks, water closets, or privies
• Keeping diseased animals dangerous to human health
• Unclean or filthy places where animals are slaughtered
• Any condition capable of breeding flies, mosquitoes, or other arthropods capable of transmitting diseases to humans
• Any act or condition which may cause disease

When a nuisance is found to exist, a sanitary nuisance notice is issued giving a reasonable time for correction, based on the severity of the condition, and if correction is not completed, legal action is taken.

And is the ad inaccurate?

Doubt that the woman in the ad is lying.

 

[Crankyhawk]

No, the ads are still running because media is ignoring the cease and desist. Anyway doubt that it will succeed, just crazy even trying. Next step the courts.

I do like the law they are invoking - 'sanitary nuisance'

Nuisances injurious to health is generally defined as:

• Untreated or improperly treated human waste, garbage, offal, dead animals, or dangerous waste materials from manufacturing processes, air pollutants, gasses, and noisome odors which are harmful to human or animal life
• Improperly built or maintained septic tanks, water closets, or privies
• Keeping diseased animals dangerous to human health
• Unclean or filthy places where animals are slaughtered
• Any condition capable of breeding flies, mosquitoes, or other arthropods capable of transmitting diseases to humans
• Any act or condition which may cause disease

When a nuisance is found to exist, a sanitary nuisance notice is issued giving a reasonable time for correction, based on the severity of the condition, and if correction is not completed, legal action is taken.


Doubt that the woman in the ad is lying.

I thought they are going the angle of misinformation which can cause disease (people not seeeking cancer treatment I guess). And wasn’t saying the woman was lying more trying to understand what she was told and why.

Edit and “inaccurate “ was meaning is the ad spreading misinformation about the current legislation. Which I don’t think it is (due to the legal grey zone)

 

[bourbons]

Against the depravity and fascist tendencies of Trump, and The Handmaid's Tale nightmare which lurks in the background, there is considerable pressure to overlook the sad fact that the other candidate is intent upon enabling genocide and (it seems) widening the conflict in the Middle East.

For many people the choice doesn't feel so straightforward.

Eh? Trump is more hawkish on Gaza if anything, Israel "has to finish the job". The job being the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from that area.

Sad truth is that neither candidate is going to reign Israel in, both will "enable genocide" as you put it.

 

[bourbons]

But we know precisely where Harris stands on Gaza, on Israel, and we're starting to get a sense of her hawkish approach to Iran.

We know where Trump does too. Only difference is he's explicitly stated his support for the genocide while Harris weasels around language like that.

He's no better on Iran either, recently threatening to "blow them to smithereens".

 

[bourbons]

Voting is the only signal that most people can give in a democracy. However you want to cut it, a vote for Harris is a clear signal of support for genocide, and likely a wider war with Iran.

As is a vote for Trump, based on his own words.

I really don't get this angle

 

[JB1975]

As is a vote for Trump, based on his own words.

I really don't get this angle

I don't advocate giving the vote to Donald.

 

[pjcrows]

It was about this time last election that Team Trump started making noises about a shady election.

It's not unreasonable to think that heightening expectations is part of a similar strategy this time around.

Agreed.

I don't see an election outcome, either way, that doesn't result in significant unrest.

 

[pjcrows]

As is a vote for Trump, based on his own words.

I really don't get this angle

His point is not that complicated, and he's made it clearly and eloquently over a number of posts (far more eloquently than I can).

 

[bourbons]

Interesting to see the block of "internal polling" being spat out by the Trump campaign, showing he's leading in all 7 swing states and is close to tied nationally. A broader collection of polls indicates a more even spread of leads between Trump and Harris, with Harris winning nationally.

If the Trump polling was true and you were confident in it, you wouldn't leak that polling. You'd stay on message and keep going rather than trying to shift the narrative/muddy the waters.

Coz its not true. Its prep to get back on the stolen election shtick should he lose again.

 

[blackshadow]

Interesting to see the block of "internal polling" being spat out by the Trump campaign, showing he's leading in all 7 swing states and is close to tied nationally. A broader collection of polls indicates a more even spread of leads between Trump and Harris, with Harris winning nationally.

If the Trump polling was true and you were confident in it, you wouldn't leak that polling. You'd stay on message and keep going rather than trying to shift the narrative/muddy the waters.

No doubt the strategy will be to shore up support that the election was stolen when Trump loses.

 

[bourbons]

It was about this time last election that Team Trump started making noises about a shady election.

It's not unreasonable to think that heightening expectations is part of a similar strategy this time around.

Started well before this last time, about 9 or 10 months out from memory.

 

[JB1975]

Agreed.

I don't see an election outcome, either way, that doesn't result in significant unrest.

I don't know how significant the unrest will be, but another lost ('stolen') election and a legal avalanche from the previous election promises quite a tantrum.

I've cancelled Netflix.

 

[bourbons]

I don't advocate giving the vote to Donald.

Sorry yep misread your "there is considerable pressure to overlook" post, thought you were saying people may vote for Trump instead coz of Harris' stance on Gaza/Israel.

 

[bourbons]

His point is not that complicated, and he's made it clearly and eloquently over a number of posts (far more eloquently than I can).

See above.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Continually posting positive polls is not a great move as it either inspires the opponents or makes them complacent to vote.

May not make much of a difference but this isn’t the flex right now

It is to give them cover for when they say Election “stollen” again.

 

[OneGreatClub]

You're right, the position on genocide doesn't differentiate the candidates. My view is that it goes a long way to defining both of them.

There's nothing 'disingenuous' in my position. Or 'hyperbolic'. The logic of it is clear enough. The Biden/Harris government has enabled the slaughter of tens of thousands of people in Gaza and it has taken a more heavy-handed approach to criticism of its actions at home. It pushes an IHRA definition of antisemitism in order to circumvent discussion/debate and encourages authorities to crush protest. It embraces a war criminal within its halls of power.

That is the reality.

Harris/Walz promises more of the same and more, but you don't think it's okay for people to not support this. You think that they should look past the bodies, ignore the mockery of international law and humanity, close their eyes and kiss Kamala because we all know that Trump is even more repugnant.

No one's denying that Trump is a monster, and yet Biden/Harris/Walz are monstrous (sorry Tim). But instead of criticising the dynamics which have created this horror show, or the actors who are starring in it, you'd rather level your angst at the horrified.

The absence of their vote is the only weapon these people have. If instead they give it to Harris, it amounts to a silencing of the self. How else are they to be heard?

You don't have to agree with the position or the logic which leads to it, and I acknowledge that there is room for discussion around the issues. I'm not inclined to tell people that they shouldn't vote for Harris. But to dismiss the position as 'disingenuous' suggests a serious failure to reckon with the implications of what is happening in Gaza and beyond.

It’s not a weapon though, it’s suicide as if Trump wins then future ‘elections’ will be like Hungary’s or Russia’s and soon enough he will incarcerate or deport anyone supporting Palestine.

 

[OneGreatClub]

I don't advocate giving the vote to Donald.

Not voting is giving the vote to Donald

 

[JB1975]

Sorry misread your "there is considerable pressure to overlook" post, thought you were saying people may vote for Trump instead coz of Harris' stance on Gaza/Israel.

I read something the other day which indicated that Muslim voters in Michigan are not only breaking from the Dems, but also going across to Don.

I can't embrace that logic. It escapes me entirely.

The linked article talks about the first part of the equation, but I can't recall where I saw a suggestion of the second.

Democrats fear Michigan Muslim voters breaking from Harris in final days

Muslim and Arab-American voters in Michigan, who backed Joe Biden in 2020, could be decisive to the presidential race.

www.newsweek.com