USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2

USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Because;

A) You’re not allowed to be a Trump fan.
B) If you criticise Harris, you’re a Trump fan or “Harris is still better than the alternative”.
C) If you dance around points A or B, you question why people don’t just admit they are a Trump fan, despite already telling them they shouldnt be.
D) If you attempt A or B, you get ganged up on by arrogant and insecure people who just circle jerk each other.
E) You probably have them on ignore anyway (example above).

You do not welcome any debate or differing of opinions. So I am not sure why you are trying to seek this out.

Please enlighten me, what possible chance does anyone have of presenting an argument to you?

Hope that clears it up for you.

Actually, I do welcome debate and differing opinions.

I don’t welcome complete and utter refusal to acknowledge Trump’s fundamental indecency as a human being however.

So yeah, I guess that’s my point. Apart from any other thing that is said about the man, in his refusing to concede his loss fair and square in 2020, Trump has told the world he refuses to play by the rules that he expects everyone else to play by.

So he has declared himself a cheat.

And anyone that supports him is supporting a cheat. There is simply no way around that reality.

So it’s no surprise that most of his supports go very quiet the moment they’re asked to dig a little deeper into justifying their support for him.

I get the LW circle jerk lament. It’s turned me off a few other threads on this board and can be insultingly juvenile.

But, tiresome though it is, there is a truth behind it.

It’s not that you’re “not allowed to be a Trump fan”.

It’s that these jerkers, for all their flaws, know that at the end of the day, if you’re supporting Trump you’re supporting a declared cheat. And no matter how much this world has dismayingly declined, that’s still not acceptable and never will be.

 

[GreyCrow]

Photos Show New York Congressman in Blackface as Michael Jackson

Representative Mike Lawler, a Republican locked in a tight race for re-election, dressed as the pop star for Halloween as a college student in 2006.

www.nytimes.com

Not a fan of historical revisionism. Nor a fan of racial division in costuming

I didnt care about JD dressing as a woman in college nor do I condemn this. Its not blackface ( to me) its homage , its identity its a costume.

If a little kid wants to be NicNat he shouldnt be denied just because he is white.

I find it at odds with the recent blurring of casting people in a role traditionally played by a person of a different race.

I understand and recognise blackface has a history - but to me education is more important than banning or shaming.

And yes I recognise context DOES play a role in this

(and yes I also recognise my position comes as a PWM)

 

[adogsfan5]

Actually, I do welcome debate and differing opinions.

I don’t welcome complete and utter refusal to acknowledge Trump’s fundamental indecency as a human being however.

So yeah, I guess that’s my point. Apart from any other thing that is said about the man, in his refusing to concede his loss fair and square in 2020, Trump has told the world he refuses to play by the rules that he expects everyone else to play by.

So he has declared himself a cheat.

And anyone that supports him is supporting a cheat. There is simply no way around that reality.

So it’s no surprise that most of his supports go very quiet the moment they’re asked to dig a little deeper into justifying their support for him.

I get the LW circle jerk lament. It’s turns me off a few other threads on this board and can be insultingly juvenile.

But, tiresome though it is, there is a truth behind it.

It’s not that you’re “not allowed to be a Trump fan”.

It’s that these jerkers, for all their flaws, know that at the end of the day, if you’re supporting Trump you’re supporting a declared cheat. And no matter how much this world has dismayingly declined, that’s still not acceptable and never will be.

I appreciate your reply. A good one for sure.

But right now, as I am reading, you are wanting good solid arguments presented, whilst also basically admitting there are none…

There should just be a thread dedicated for hating Donald Trump / barracking for his opponent with anyone else being thread banned for disagreeing. It would save alot of abuse, bans, tantrums, trolling and bickering.

 

[bourbons]

And for those still bleating about election result denial:

Yep, this is totally the same as asking state reps to 'find' enough votes to flip states and pressuring your VP not to certify the election

World class false equivalence as always.

 

[Financialpanther]

I appreciate your reply. A good one for sure.

But right now, as I am reading, you are wanting good solid arguments presented, whilst also basically admitting there are none…

There should just be a thread dedicated for hating Donald Trump / barracking for his opponent with anyone else being thread banned for disagreeing. It would save alot of abuse, bans, tantrums, trolling and bickering.

There's always going to be the 'my side vs your side' in these threads as well as hate for both candidates. A free market BF thread ideally has to cater for everything and it would be great to have people posting stuff in specific threads but that would go against the notion of the free market.

There are always going to be trolls mixed upon genuine posts - kinda is what it is.

 

[pjcrows]

Because;

A) You’re not allowed to be a Trump fan.
B) If you criticise Harris, you’re a Trump fan or “Harris is still better than the alternative”.
C) If you dance around points A or B, you question why people don’t just admit they are a Trump fan, despite already telling them they shouldnt be.
D) If you attempt A or B, you get ganged up on by people who just circle jerk each other.
E) You probably have them on ignore anyway (example above).

You do not welcome any debate or differing of opinions. So I am not sure why you are trying to seek this out.

Please enlighten me, what possible chance does anyone have of presenting an argument to you and having a civilised conversation?

Hope that clears it up for you.

Point B is definitely true.

 

[adogsfan5]

There's always going to be the 'my side vs your side' in these threads as well as hate for both candidates. A free market BF thread ideally has to cater for everything and it would be great to have people posting stuff in specific threads but that would go against the notion of the free market.

There are always going to be trolls mixed upon genuine posts - kinda is what it is.

The “my side vs your side” is definetly prevalent in the Australian politics threads and can actually create some healthy debate on there. It’s a much better read.

But this one consists of so much toxic hatred. You can’t welcome healthy debate whilst also admitting there are zero possible debatable points from the opposition.
And considering barely anyone in here can even impact the result, I find it even weirder.

 

[adogsfan5]

Point B is definitely true.

Well, again, it backs up my point in that you are not welcoming any other views or debate. Is what it is I guess.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I appreciate your reply. A good one for sure.

But right now, as I am reading, you are wanting good solid arguments presented, whilst also basically admitting there are none…

There should just be a thread dedicated for hating Donald Trump / barracking for his opponent with anyone else being thread banned for disagreeing. It would save alot of abuse, bans, tantrums, trolling and bickering.

One of the issues is it is difficult to conceptualise an argument to support trump that doesn’t rely heavily on poor quality sources / generally seen as fake news types. Though I have noted there is more of an argument to show support for Vance after a credible debate performance.
I find that criticism of Harris is still well received it’s just difficult to argue any way that trump would be better

 

[pjcrows]

Not all people who would vote for Trump are "cookers" and not all people who would vote for Harris are "lib sheep".

Most people vote against someone. I find it hard to understand why someone would support Trump unequivocally but I understand why some would vote for him in a two-horse race where establishment Democrats are the other option.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Trump only paid $500 to Hurricane victims. Kamala increased that by 50% !!!

But has Kamala thrown paper towels at them? You can't put a price on that!

 

[adogsfan5]

Not all people who would vote for Trump are "cookers" and not all people who would vote for Harris are "lib sheep".

Most people vote against someone. I find it hard to understand why someone would support Trump unequivocally but I understand why some would vote for him in a two-horse race where establishment Democrats are the other option.

This is how the thread should exactly be mate.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Photos Show New York Congressman in Blackface as Michael Jackson

Representative Mike Lawler, a Republican locked in a tight race for re-election, dressed as the pop star for Halloween as a college student in 2006.

www.nytimes.com

He was dressing as Michael Jackson, he didn't need to do blackface!

In all seriousness I'm a bit sceptical of people dredging up photo's from uni days that are 20 years old. Everyone does stupid things then, and learning through them is the purpose of uni. If he comes out and says, sorry, it was uni, didn't think of the impact of it at the time, my history since shows no animosity wasn't meant, then we should move on.

Now drag the **** out of him if he is pushing policies that show he hasn't learnt.

 

[Jbudds04v2]

Vance was on the debating team at Yale.

Vance was a lot better and much more polished and controlled than I expected, when compared to how he performs at rally's. I wonder how much he believes in the Trump rhetoric he is saying. Is it all a show?

 

[Gough]

Vance was a lot better and much more polished and controlled than I expected, when compared to how he performs at rally's. I wonder how much he believes in the Trump rhetoric he is saying. Is it all a show?

He's a like used car salesman, he can be whatever you want as long as he gets his commission.

 

[Maggie5]

Vance was a lot better and much more polished and controlled than I expected, when compared to how he performs at rally's. I wonder how much he believes in the Trump rhetoric he is saying. Is it all a show?

He was everything a good experienced debater should be. Barely any emotion (unlike his rallies).

However given his track record, the insincerity was there for all to see. He is Con Jnr.

 

[happy_eagle]

Yep, this is totally the same as asking state reps to 'find' enough votes to flip states and pressuring your VP not to certify the election

World class false equivalence as always.

Ironically this 24 minute video (which I skimmed through did not watch the whole thing) does not include the 1 video that I would consider to be the closest equivalent of Democrats wanting to overturn 2016.



Still obviously nowhere near January 6 levels of coup attempting, but this wasn't and still isn't a great look.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I appreciate your reply. A good one for sure.

But right now, as I am reading, you are wanting good solid arguments presented, whilst also basically admitting there are none…

There should just be a thread dedicated for hating Donald Trump / barracking for his opponent with anyone else being thread banned for disagreeing. It would save alot of abuse, bans, tantrums, trolling and bickering.

Thanks.

If it wasn't clear initially, it should be clear by now that I was being arch in my initial post.

I know perfectly well why so few Trump supporters show any inclination to explain their support.

Donald Trump showed the world he is a cheat.

He's had nearly four years of opportunities to walk back his claims of fraud, but instead he chose to double down on his completely baseless claims. (A good place to do so might have been when, bar one, every single one of the literally dozens of legal cases that he had brought to challenge the election results found against him.) Can't get a more decisive demonstration than that. The man is a cheat.

No-one who is against cheating can support Donald Trump.

Conversely, if you support Donald Trump, you support cheating.

Let's not cloud the discussion.

Not much else to say, really.

 

[Magnum27]

Thanks.

If it wasn't clear initially, it should be clear by now that I was being arch in my initial post.

I know perfectly well why so few Trump supporters show any inclination to explain their support.

Donald Trump showed the world he is a cheat.

He's had nearly four years of opportunities to walk back his claims of fraud, but instead he chose to double down on his completely baseless claims. (A good place to do so might have been when, bar one, every single one of the literally dozens of legal cases that he had brought to challenge the election results found against him.) Can't get a more decisive demonstration than that. The man is a cheat.

No-one who is against cheating can support Donald Trump.

Conversely, if you support Donald Trump, you support cheating.

Let's not cloud the discussion.

Not much else to say, really.

Add treating women like shit as well, that is my reason for hatred of the useless campaigner.

 

[GreyCrow]

The “my side vs your side” is definetly prevalent in the Australian politics threads and can actually create some healthy debate on there. It’s a much better read.

But this one consists of so much toxic hatred. You can’t welcome healthy debate whilst also admitting there are zero possible debatable points from the opposition.
And considering barely anyone in here can even impact the result, I find it even weirder.

I think your 1st paragraph lends itself to the 2nd

In Oz politics there is a choice between two but similar brands of politics. Similar to the US duopoly .

But the difference - to me - is there isnt such a polarizing figure here than Trump at the moment. Sure people might call Dutton racist but thats because of his political views . Others may say Albo is an idiot and comes across as one

But its mostly window dressing as both parties here (mostly) monitor the behaviour of their candidates and elected officials

While in Trump there is no veneer - he is what he projects - a crook, a grifter, a sook , a sexual predator - a small man trying to be big.

ie its not his political policies that defines him its his personal baggage that is odious to me . That the Republican Party havent disowned him means - rightly or wrongly - they also bear the brunt of criticism.

Trump isnt dangerous because he is evil and wants a world of puritanical beliefs. His danger is because of his lack of care and need to be coddled. Its because he allows the most terrible things to be considered just as long as you worship him

Thats the danger and the reason for the hate

 

[GreyCrow]

Well, again, it backs up my point in that you are not welcoming any other views or debate. Is what it is I guess.

I would like you to come back in February next year and hopefully the discussion has changed back to policy direction rather than personalising Trumps faults ( in the event Harris is the President)

 

[bourbons]

Ah, so the same for the Dems, gotcha. Both teams are perpetual liars, which is their language.

Kinda like saying Mt Everest and Mt Dandenong are both mountains, but sure ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[adogsfan5]

I would like you to come back in February next year and hopefully the discussion has changed back to policy direction rather than personalising Trumps faults ( in the event Harris is the President)

Oh trust me, I am much more looking forward to reading the thread at that stage over the current shit.

 

[jatz14]

He was everything a good experienced debater should be. Barely any emotion (unlike his rallies).

However given his track record, the insincerity was there for all to see. He is Con Jnr.

It shows his rallies, and his other performances are performative.

I think he genuinely dislikes Trump and thinks he is a moron, but playing up to his base brings him closer to power.

Which is why, disliking Trump much more than Vance, Vance worries me more.

I don't think Trump really has much in the way of long term goals beyond being president.

I think Vance does.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Spearman]

One of REM's better songs is 'Crush with Eyeliner' off 'Monster'.

Can't beat 'What's the Frequency Kenneth',
Orange Crush is shit.

lol, that was my first reaction as well. "Predator with Eyeliner"