List Mgmt. 2024 Young Talent Time (Drafting)

[Snuffaluphagus]

 

[Cesoir]

I agree we should be not relying on Johnson or Erasmus being AFL standard inside mids. Erasmus is still closer to a bust than making it in my view even if he's not quite in Dow territory yet. (He was looking much better the back month of the season. Don't give me any 'He just won a Simpson Medal' talk though people. Did it make Milan Murdoch an AFL player? Luke Meadows? Blakely?? Connor was 6 months younger at that point too). They might, again in particular Johnson. NOD becoming a FT inside mid is a fantasy imv. He can try and make the full strength team first on the near wing then worry about getting a rotation.

This doesn't mean we should reach past a flanker at 14, but if plays out that an inside mid is clearly the best available just take them.

Mate, he just won a Simpson medal!

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I agree we should be not relying on Johnson or Erasmus being AFL standard inside mids. Erasmus is still closer to a bust than making it in my view even if he's not quite in Dow territory yet. (He was looking much better the back month of the season. Don't give me any 'He just won a Simpson Medal' talk though people. Did it make Milan Murdoch an AFL player? Luke Meadows? Blakely?? Connor was 6 months younger at that point too). They might, again in particular Johnson. NOD becoming a FT inside mid is a fantasy imv. He can try and make the full strength team first on the near wing then worry about getting a rotation.

This doesn't mean we should reach past a flanker at 14, but if plays out that an inside mid is clearly the best available just take them.

Are we relying on them becoming AFL standard inside mids? If anything, them getting to that level would be more in the "good problem" territory than the "necessary improvement" territory. We got the big 3 in Young, Serong and Brayshaw. Shai will get some inside minutes. The plan has apparently been for Jackson to as well. We're targeting Chad Warner. If 1 of Erasmus or Johnson get there, you've got headaches. If they both get there, you're basically hoping 1 of them loves WA so much that they accept being the Matthew Kennedy of this team.

I'm not on "don't get an inside mid". Reality is many if not most non-key position/ruck prospects play some midfield time in their draft year because that gets you more involved, more noticed, pushes up your draft stock, and in general their junior team coaches will try to get their best players as involved as possible to win games. But if the best available was a pure inside mid type like Deven Robertson...pass.

 

[Docker82]

Are we relying on them becoming AFL standard inside mids? If anything, them getting to that level would be more in the "good problem" territory than the "necessary improvement" territory. We got the big 3 in Young, Serong and Brayshaw. Shai will get some inside minutes. The plan has apparently been for Jackson to as well. We're targeting Chad Warner. If 1 of Erasmus or Johnson get there, you've got headaches. If they both get there, you're basically hoping 1 of them loves WA so much that they accept being the Matthew Kennedy of this team.

I'm not on "don't get an inside mid". Reality is many if not most non-key position/ruck prospects play some midfield time in their draft year because that gets you more involved, more noticed, pushes up your draft stock, and in general their junior team coaches will try to get their best players as involved as possible to win games. But if the best available was a pure inside mid type like Deven Robertson...pass.

Three A Grade inside mids with **** all support outside of fringe players and Bolton (who'll need to play 70+% forward for us) doesn't make us a top four side. If we're not a top four side we're not winning a premiership.

Genuinely believe it's as simple as that.

Agree with posters that say an inside mid that can't play anywhere else isn't a need but unless you want to want Bolton not playing forward, midfield depth is pretty close to our biggest need IMO. We aren't matching it with Sydney or Brisbane in that regard.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Three A Grade inside mids with **** all support outside of fringe players and Bolton (who'll need to play 70+% forward for us) doesn't make us a top four side. If we're not a top four side we're not winning a premiership.

Genuinely believe it's as simple as that.

Agree with posters that say an inside mid that can't play anywhere else isn't a need but unless you want to want Bolton not playing forward, midfield depth is pretty close to our biggest need IMO. We aren't matching it with Sydney or Brisbane in that regard.

Inside mid has become an increasingly unspecialised role. Much like the pure inside mid is out of vogue, we're increasingly seeing teams who want to get their best non-key position players more involved shift them into midfield. Hayden Young, Ed Richards, Trent Rivers, Max Holmes, Tom Stewart, Isaac Heeney, Izak Rankine, Nick Daicos, Harry Sheezel. These are just the examples of this phenomenon this year.

If both Johnson and Erasmus flop (which is highly unlikely), we'll still be fine. If Shai and Jackson alone don't cover those minutes and we're really desperate to kick Fyfe out rather than learn from countless teams that managed vets a lot better than we did with Fyfe (pre-bye vs post-bye Fyfe was 2 different players), all of a sudden Heath Chapman puts his hand up. NOD puts his hand up. Cooper Simpson a couple years down the line puts his hand up. And if Will Brodie grows a defensive bone in his body, maybe he puts his hand up too.

In terms of the starters, when you have 3 A Grade inside mids, you're likely asking the 4th guy to be a dedicated role player. He's not there to be the 4th superstar, he's there to let the superstars be superstars. And then in a pinch if 1 of the main guys get injured, you've got any combination of the options mentioned. I'm unconvinced by the notion that midfield is any level of need when the starting group is looking for its Willem Drew/James Peatling/James Rowbottom type.

 

[greatgatsby]

Inside mid has become an increasingly unspecialised role. Much like the pure inside mid is out of vogue, we're increasingly seeing teams who want to get their best non-key position players more involved shift them into midfield. Hayden Young, Ed Richards, Trent Rivers, Max Holmes, Tom Stewart, Isaac Heeney, Izak Rankine, Nick Daicos, Harry Sheezel. These are just the examples of this phenomenon this year.

If both Johnson and Erasmus flop (which is highly unlikely), we'll still be fine. If Shai and Jackson alone don't cover those minutes and we're really desperate to kick Fyfe out rather than learn from countless teams that managed vets a lot better than we did with Fyfe (pre-bye vs post-bye Fyfe was 2 different players), all of a sudden Heath Chapman puts his hand up. NOD puts his hand up. Cooper Simpson a couple years down the line puts his hand up. And if Will Brodie grows a defensive bone in his body, maybe he puts his hand up too.

In terms of the starters, when you have 3 A Grade inside mids, you're likely asking the 4th guy to be a dedicated role player. He's not there to be the 4th superstar, he's there to let the superstars be superstars. And then in a pinch if 1 of the main guys get injured, you've got any combination of the options mentioned. I'm unconvinced by the notion that midfield is any level of need when the starting group is looking for its Willem Drew/James Peatling/James Rowbottom type.

I was thinking a Dunkley type ... too much to ask?

 

[theGav56]

He would be a waste, if we left him as a deep forward.

He plays his best football getting up the ground, and running through the midfield.

I very carefully said forward pocket not small forward which is a different role.

You very carefully said forward pocket but you also said small forwards

I only want outside mids/flankers with speed and class and small forwards.

I really don't want to go into the next year with no AFL quality forward pockets on our list.

Which forward pocket specialist do you like in this draft?

 

[FreoRicci]

If Allen is available, with Berry, do we still take the small forward for needs?
Allen is a great prospect to turn down. Already in league for Peel, local. Hard to ignore

 

[go_the_dockers]

Which forward pocket specialist do you like in this draft?

Berry is probably the closest to a genuine forward pocket, and one of the few I see crumb goals.

Eventually, he will play higher up the ground in bursts.

 

[Taylor]

Cooper Hynes looks like he can play small forward too, just a bit more in the Dustin Martin, Jordan DeGoey style of making space through power and snapping goals.

He would just also be big enough to play taller.

 

[Gussman]

If freo's recruiting team thinks they will be poaching either Warner or Pickett next year, then Berry wouldn't be the top of their list.

 

[theGav56]

Are we relying on them becoming AFL standard inside mids? If anything, them getting to that level would be more in the "good problem" territory than the "necessary improvement" territory. We got the big 3 in Young, Serong and Brayshaw. Shai will get some inside minutes. The plan has apparently been for Jackson to as well. We're targeting Chad Warner. If 1 of Erasmus or Johnson get there, you've got headaches. If they both get there, you're basically hoping 1 of them loves WA so much that they accept being the Matthew Kennedy of this team.

Agreeing with a lot of your post, but, do we have an actual plan to play Jackson as a midfielder? I mean, roving to Darcy.

I like the fantasy, haven't noticed much to suggest we're moving in that direction.

Darcy has had such a bad run with injuries I suspect we just tandem ruck/forward them.

 

[theGav56]

If Allen is available, with Berry, do we still take the small forward for needs?
Allen is a great prospect to turn down. Already in league for Peel, local. Hard to ignore

It's an interesting hypothetical. We definitely should go Berry, and I'm unconvinced Allen is a midfielder at the next level.

We have Wagner, Aish and Worner as depth HBF-ers, and I think we have an Irish recruit incoming as well

We have Erasmus, Johnson and Brodie as big bodied mids who can't get an on ball gig

Everything to me says take Berry.

 

[Docker82]

If freo's recruiting team thinks they will be poaching either Warner or Pickett next year, then Berry wouldn't be the top of their list.

We simply can't be thinking that way.

I think we assumed we'd be able to poach a KPF last time we were competing for a flag. We got Jack Anthony and Scott Gumbleton after missing out on everyone else and didn't find another even decent KPF until Taberner got going 4-5 years after we were in a Grand Final.

I don't really care that Warner and Pickett seem more realistic. If doesn't happen it doesn't matter.

 

[AstonSouffle]

We simply can't be thinking that way.

I think we assumed we'd be able to poach a KPF last time we were competing for a flag. We got Jack Anthony and Scott Gumbleton after missing out on everyone else and didn't find another even decent KPF until Taberner got going 4-5 years after we were in a Grand Final.

I don't really care that Warner and Pickett seem more realistic. If doesn't happen it doesn't matter.

Not to mention things change, and fast at that.

Think about Treacy vs. McDonald as recent as 12 months ago.

 

[theGav56]

We simply can't be thinking that way.

I think we assumed we'd be able to poach a KPF last time we were competing for a flag. We got Jack Anthony and Scott Gumbleton after missing out on everyone else and didn't find another even decent KPF until Taberner got going 4-5 years after we were in a Grand Final.

I don't really care that Warner and Pickett seem more realistic. If doesn't happen it doesn't matter.

I think it is realistic that we can trade in a decent midfielder, even if it's not Warner or in his echelon. I also think we have enough prospects on the list unless it is compelling.

Dual position players are what I want to see, and think we are held back by Fyfe and Walters no longer being realistically capable of that, Erasmus not showing the forward potential he flashed predraft, and Brodie being almost a one trick pony.

 

[Lach72]

Three A Grade inside mids with **** all support outside of fringe players and Bolton (who'll need to play 70+% forward for us) doesn't make us a top four side. If we're not a top four side we're not winning a premiership.

Genuinely believe it's as simple as that.

Agree with posters that say an inside mid that can't play anywhere else isn't a need but unless you want to want Bolton not playing forward, midfield depth is pretty close to our biggest need IMO. We aren't matching it with Sydney or Brisbane in that regard.

If we can cover, small and/or medium forwards and perhaps a classy winger type we can go he’ll for leather for Warner in 2025, amd we have Robinson in 2026 as inside mids

 

[Gussman]

We simply can't be thinking that way.

I think we assumed we'd be able to poach a KPF last time we were competing for a flag. We got Jack Anthony and Scott Gumbleton after missing out on everyone else and didn't find another even decent KPF until Taberner got going 4-5 years after we were in a Grand Final.

I don't really care that Warner and Pickett seem more realistic. If doesn't happen it doesn't matter.

If Berry isn't addressing an area of need (Bolton, Freddy and Switta as the b22 smalls with Simpson, Walters, Narkle? and DeLean either depth or developing) then we should go best available, especially when our two most likely recruiting targets next year play in his position.

In order for Berry to be a good option he must either be better then one of the b22 smalls or prove to be a better prospect then Simpson as the eventual Switta replacement, I don't think he is either.

 

[Big Animal]

Dear Fremantle Walls-Christmas,

Please can we finally have a Ballas replacement. Not the 2013GF Ballas but the usual one that made goals happen when the ball hit the ground in the F50 and pushed back momentum our way and won and sealed games. Not a good pressure forward like Swit, not a mid-forward like Simp, not a supersub like BB, not a maybe but unlikely like DeLean, but a good ol fashioned Ballas that has runs on the board in that position or is a really good bet. A future Ballas, Papley, Willie, Rankine, Eddie type if you will.

I'll try really hard to be good next year.

BA

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Clipped from another forum that got clipped from another forum but I dont think it matters because its just stats.
Noticed this on another forum.

Ive got chronic fatigue so I go to a ton of doctors appointments that run late and I take my laptop and look up draft info. I get what a few have said about Hottons highlights being uninspiring but after looking into match report comments about how he played in games they describe his skills as elite and the highlight package look like it came from only two games or so. One said he excells at the difficult skill of kicking through the corridor.

This view is backed up on the Rookie Central Facebook page. He was in white hot form when he got injured and I think he could very well have ended up top 5 if he didnt get injured as he went from someone not talked about to a star in just a few games. One of the guys who has direct contact with Kevin Sheenan said the talent scouts didnt eve cover Hottons first two games so he was coming from a long way back but after some scouts viewed the games before he got injured there was talk of him going top 5 if he continued improvement with his class with ball in hand described as his best asset.
Statistically his last few games were insanely good with his 7.3 marks over the season showing he can move around the ground and link up play which is definitely a need for us long term as it would allow Bolton to stay close to goal. In all honesty he's now equal with Lindsay and Berry as my top choices as all three fill a long term need while improving our foot skills is our major team need particularly in the front half. Hotton also reportedly has very good pace and endurance so potentially long term he could a wing option.

 

[Docker82]

If Berry isn't addressing an area of need (Bolton, Freddy and Switta as the b22 smalls with Simpson, Walters, Narkle? and DeLean either depth or developing) then we should go best available, especially when our two most likely recruiting targets next year play in his position.

In order for Berry to be a good option he must either be better then one of the b22 smalls or prove to be a better prospect then Simpson as the eventual Switta replacement, I don't think he is either.

I genuinely think that having Shai Bolton on the list really gets our needs much closer to 'best available'.

If we draft a small forward, Bolton probably plays more midfield for us assuming that player graduates into the best 22.

If we draft a versatile midfielder that can play inside, outside and maybe some forward, Bolton stays forward more.

In an absolute ideal world we draft a second Bolton IMO so that we basically have him both forward and midfield at all times. Thing is not many players are as good as he is at one of those positions let alone both so you've probably just got to go with the most talented player that sort of meets our needs.

 

[Joao]

Clipped from another forum that got clipped from another forum but I dont think it matters because its just stats.
Noticed this on another forum.

Ive got chronic fatigue so I go to a ton of doctors appointments that run late and I take my laptop and look up draft info. I get what a few have said about Hottons highlights being uninspiring but after looking into match report comments about how he played in games they describe his skills as elite and the highlight package look like it came from only two games or so. One said he excells at the difficult skill of kicking through the corridor.

This view is backed up on the Rookie Central Facebook page. He was in white hot form when he got injured and I think he could very well have ended up top 5 if he didnt get injured as he went from someone not talked about to a star in just a few games. One of the guys who has direct contact with Kevin Sheenan said the talent scouts didnt eve cover Hottons first two games so he was coming from a long way back but after some scouts viewed the games before he got injured there was talk of him going top 5 if he continued improvement with his class with ball in hand described as his best asset.
Statistically his last few games were insanely good with his 7.3 marks over the season showing he can move around the ground and link up play which is definitely a need for us long term as it would allow Bolton to stay close to goal. In all honesty he's now equal with Lindsay and Berry as my top choices as all three fill a long term need while improving our foot skills is our major team need particularly in the front half. Hotton also reportedly has very good pace and endurance so potentially long term he could a wing option.

How does Hynes fair in these stats?

 

[Boomer93]

We simply can't be thinking that way.

I think we assumed we'd be able to poach a KPF last time we were competing for a flag. We got Jack Anthony and Scott Gumbleton after missing out on everyone else and didn't find another even decent KPF until Taberner got going 4-5 years after we were in a Grand Final.

I don't really care that Warner and Pickett seem more realistic. If doesn't happen it doesn't matter.

Much different situation.

We never assumed we would be able to snag a KPF, we hoped we could. Fremantle always knew it was unlikely, snagging quality KPFs rarely happens.

You don't know the conversations that have already happened. Freo would be very aware of the likelihood of them moving over or not.

Every list decision is a risk. If one of them has told us they will move over next season, and then they don't, there's a good chance that the current group of small forwards wouldn't be improved that much by a guy like Berry anyway, at least in the short term.

 

[Taylor]

Are we looking at immediate impact from our three year contracted top twenty pick? If so, just pick the midfielder with the best agility and cleanest hands then play him as a small forward for the majority of his first year, most of his second year with bursts in the middle and then as a goal scoring mid for the third year.