2025 Ladder Predictions

[Dewyyyyy]

Kind of my point...

It may change, but I don't see the superstar talent that usually wins flags.

And when I say superstar I'm talking top 5-10 players in the league.

If we’re talking top 5 players in the comp.

Geelong 2022 would’ve had 1 with Cameron if you’re considering him as that, which I would. Stewart very good and a star in my eyes but not top 10 in the league.

Brisbane 2024 would have 1 with Neale but he’s probably outside the 5.

Richmond had Martin.

Eagles in 2018 didn’t have a superstar calibre player (top 10 in the league) however McGovern in my eyes is a star and counts.

The same way Sicily counts as a star.

Some have multiple stars (Tracca, Clarry, Gawn) from recent memory. But have a need for this as their depth is average or not to the calibre of other clubs.

Hawthorns depth in 2025 will be quite good, this will also include a star in Sicily, many consider Barrass one of the games better KPD, Newcombe for two years has been a top line midfielder and I’d consider him a star, especially with how he’s continued to build, into the dominance of backend 2024 and finals. Most people know Day will get there.

The point is and my point was which you’ve missed, is that this is a subjective opinion. However anyone who has any kind of football knowledge knows how good Newcombe and Day are in the middle and the fact they’re both very good players if not stars already, especially Newcombe (Day injuries have not helped). Sicily is already a superstar and there are others who are way to young or too early to call.

What you’re saying is you don’t believe Sicily to be a star? Or don’t believe Newcombe is, or is close, even Day for that matter.

 

[RonnieRaven]

From 2024 ladder

Anchors
Pies
Dees
Into 8

Hawks
Swans
Blues
To drop out

 

[matey]

Give me a star team over a team with star players!

 

[TheFourPillars]

Give me a star team over a team with star players!

This. It's always been this

 

[Sirlemsip]

Don’t think there’s a Richmond vs Richmond game….

Last time a team went winless through a whole year was 1964 (Fitzroy).

Last time a team had only a single win was GWS in 2013 (their 2nd season)
The previous single win season before GWS was Fitzroy in 1996 (their last season before merging with Brisbane).

Even GC (3 wins) and GWS (2 wins) didn't go winless in their first years.

I would be shocked if Richmond went the whole year without getting at least one win.

I think they will beat WC at the MCG, and might be lucky enough to get another one or two along the way as well.

 

[Trav 20]

A year ago no one thought we had the talent to make the finals any time soon

Almost half the competition plays finals. Ordinary teams play finals.

But yes, it was a good year from a young team. Doesn't change my view on your top end talent.

 

[Trav 20]

If we’re talking top 5 players in the comp.

Geelong 2022 would’ve had 1 with Cameron if you’re considering him as that, which I would. Stewart very good and a star in my eyes but not top 10 in the league.

Brisbane 2024 would have 1 with Neale but he’s probably outside the 5.

Richmond had Martin.

Eagles in 2018 didn’t have a superstar calibre player (top 10 in the league) however McGovern in my eyes is a star and counts.

The same way Sicily counts as a star.

Some have multiple stars (Tracca, Clarry, Gawn) from recent memory. But have a need for this as their depth is average or not to the calibre of other clubs.

Hawthorns depth in 2025 will be quite good, this will also include a star in Sicily, many consider Barrass one of the games better KPD, Newcombe for two years has been a top line midfielder and I’d consider him a star, especially with how he’s continued to build, into the dominance of backend 2024 and finals. Most people know Day will get there.

The point is and my point was which you’ve missed, is that this is a subjective opinion. However anyone who has any kind of football knowledge knows how good Newcombe and Day are in the middle and the fact they’re both very good players if not stars already, especially Newcombe (Day injuries have not helped). Sicily is already a superstar and there are others who are way to young or too early to call.

What you’re saying is you don’t believe Sicily to be a star? Or don’t believe Newcombe is, or is close, even Day for that matter.

I'm the first to concede that my opion is utterly irrelevant.

Sicily is a very good player.

As you say Day has been injured. I can definitely see him elevating his game. I watched him closely in 2023 due to AFL Fantasy. Will be awesome.

Newcombe is a good player, but right now he's a 25 disposal merchant who doesn't kick a heap of goals.

Weddle looks great too.

Plenty to like about Hawthorn but I'll be shocked f you're a flag capable team in 2025. For me, missing the 8 is more likely.

 

[L_W_P]

I think thats the point he's making though. When was the last time a team won a flag with one of the 'better players in the comp' leading the midfield rather than genuine star talents?

If Newcombe is ur best midfielder I'm not sure I see the Hawks competing for the flag, think they'll be quite strong next year but coming up against the likes of Bris, Freo, Port, Carlton, Collingwood, GWS etc are they going to be able to match it with their star midfielders? Not as convinced.

They also had an insanely soft run in the 2nd half of the season and momentum played a big part. Much more difficult draw this season.

Geelong in 2022?

Sure, on paper Dangerfield and Selwood are legends, but from a stats POV Newcombe had a better year in 2024 than either of them did in 2022. Jai's numbers line up pretty well with Cam Guthrie but I don't think anyone was calling him anything more than 'one of the better players in the comp'.

I'm not as bullish on the Hawks as some others. I think they might have an adjustment period settling Barrass and Battle into the D50 and working out their best mix in the F50 if all of Dear, Chol and Lewis are fit. Then there's the question on how long Gunston and Breust can keep performing...

But to say they can't win the flag because of their midfield is a big call.

Could probably make an argument that the 2023 Pies, outside of Nick Daicos, had a pretty average midfield as well.

Some teams with elite midfields are still waiting to win a flag:

Swans with Heeney & Mills
Blues with Cripps & Walsh
Power with JHF, Rozee & Butters
Giants with Coniglio, Green & Whitfield
Dockers with Brayshaw & Serong

The Dogs did it a while ago and still have Bont, Treloar and Libba but haven't been able to get over the hump.

I agree that you definitely need talent in the midfield but I don't think it's like the old days were 1-2 star mids could carry a team beyond expectations.

The game is so much more than that now.

 

[Sirlemsip]

Newcombe is a good player, but right now he's a 25 disposal merchant who doesn't kick a heap of goals.

Weird comment to make about a midfielder.

Why does he have to 'kick a heap of goals'?

Some midfielders he kicked more than in 2024:
Tom Green
Andrew Brayshaw
LDU
Matt Rowell
Jack Steele
Clayton Oliver
Trav Boak

Would you say that all of the above are also just '25 disposal merchants'?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I'm the first to concede that my opion is utterly irrelevant.

Sicily is a very good player.

As you say Day has been injured. I can definitely see him elevating his game. I watched him closely in 2023 due to AFL Fantasy. Will be awesome.

Newcombe is a good player, but right now he's a 25 disposal merchant who doesn't kick a heap of goals.

Weddle looks great too.

Plenty to like about Hawthorn but I'll be shocked f you're a flag capable team in 2025. For me, missing the 8 is more likely.

I’d say most peoples opinions are mine included.

Sicily is a star, that’s established.

Day has been injured but the signs of a star are there.

Newcombe being a “25 disposal merchant” is an atrocious call. Please watch him more closely. He was having an immense scoreboard impact aswell as stoppage dominance late in the year when he racked up Brownlow votes. His power, explosiveness and ability to get to the outside is a strength, as is his creative hands and damaging kicking. To describe him like he’s just a good player is more about you than him, you need to watch closer.

And no. Hawthorn could miss the 8 but that wouldn’t have anything to do with what’s been mentioned and more about form through the year, between the ears stuff etc. The side on paper is clearly a top level team, it’s just about performing to that level of expectation.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I’d say most peoples opinions are mine included.

Sicily is a star, that’s established.

Day has been injured but the signs of a star are there.

Newcombe being a “25 disposal merchant” is an atrocious call. Please watch him more closely. He was having an immense scoreboard impact aswell as stoppage dominance late in the year when he racked up Brownlow votes. His power, explosiveness and ability to get to the outside is a strength, as is his creative hands and damaging kicking. To describe if him like he’s just a good player is more about you then him, you need to watch closer.

And no. Hawthorn could miss the 8 but that wouldn’t have anything to do with what’s been mentioned and more about form through the year, between the ears stuff etc. The side on paper is clearly a top level team, it’s just about performing to that level of expectation.

Are Newcombe or Day in the realms of Cripps, Daicos, Neale, Bont, Butters etc?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Weird comment to make about a midfielder.

Why does he have to 'kick a heap of goals'?

Some midfielders he kicked more than in 2024:
Tom Green
Andrew Brayshaw
LDU
Matt Rowell
Jack Steele
Clayton Oliver
Trav Boak

Would you say that all of the above are also just '25 disposal merchants'?

Exactly.

Finals for example.

31 disposals 16 contested with 2 goal assists 6 clearances and 6 tackles in a tight and contested game. V Port

35 disposals 12 contested 17 kicks 80% DE
1 goal 1 goal assist 10 score inv
6 inside 50s. V Dogs (BOG)

The backend of his 2024 showed how good he is.

Before finals his averages were:

29 disposals @ 82% DE
13 contested
8.5 clearances (5 CL)
1 goal a game
1.6 goal assists
9.2 score involvements

28 coaches votes over 5 games

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Are Newcombe or Day in the realms of Cripps, Daicos, Neale, Bont, Butters etc?

In what way?

For example I wouldn’t even consider Day to be yet, but I believe he will be. Whereas I think Newcombe is close.

But I also rate players like superstars, stars, very good, good. Superstars are probably top 5 ish players whereas stars there are more of.

 

[Trav 20]

Newcombe being a “25 disposal merchant” is an atrocious call. Please watch him more closely. He was having an immense scoreboard impact aswell as stoppage dominance late in the year when he racked up Brownlow votes. His power, explosiveness and ability to get to the outside is a strength, as is his creative hands and damaging kicking. To describe him like he’s just a good player is more about you than him, you need to watch closer.

He averaged 24.8 disposals and kicked 11 goals from 25 games. They're the raw facts.

I'm sure he gets very good value from his possessions, but he's not top 20 in the league for score involvements or goal assists. For eg Petracca had more goal assists from half as many games.

He's only 23, so I'm sure he'll get better. You're elevating his station before he arrives.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

In what way?

For example I wouldn’t even consider Day to be yet, but I believe he will be. Whereas I think Newcombe is close.

But I also rate players like superstars, stars, very good, good. Superstars are probably top 5 ish players whereas stars there are more of.

Pretty much what Trav said above. Day and Newcombe might end up great players, but for the time being their not in the same bracket as the best in the competition

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Exactly.

Finals for example.

31 disposals 16 contested with 2 goal assists 6 clearances and 6 tackles in a tight and contested game. V Port

35 disposals 12 contested 17 kicks 80% DE
1 goal 1 goal assist 10 score inv
6 inside 50s. V Dogs (BOG)

The backend of his 2024 showed how good he is.

Before finals his averages were:

29 disposals @ 82% DE
13 contested
8.5 clearances (5 CL)
1 goal a game
1.6 goal assists
9.2 score involvements

28 coaches votes over 5 games

Against which teams in the back end of the year though?

Round 14 - Richmond
Round 15 - Bye
Round 16 - WCE
Round 17 - Geelong (Got absolutely pumped)
Round 18 - Freo (during their capitulation)
Round 19 - Collingwood
Round 20 - Adelaide
Round 21 - GWS (Lost)
Round 22 - Carlton (during their capitulation)
Round 23 - Richmond
Round 24 - North

That's one of the softest runs of all time to be cherry picking stats from. Over the whole season Newcombe was a level or two below the best in the league, like he has been throughout his career.

Still a very good player, but I don't see a Petracca or Bont on the Hawks list to carry them to the finish line.

 

[matey]

Hawks lost Buddy and got better, moved Ablett on …….. still did ok

 

[TheFourPillars]

Against which teams in the back end of the year though?

Round 14 - Richmond
Round 15 - Bye
Round 16 - WCE
Round 17 - Geelong (Got absolutely pumped)
Round 18 - Freo (during their capitulation)
Round 19 - Collingwood
Round 20 - Adelaide
Round 21 - GWS (Lost)
Round 22 - Carlton (during their capitulation)
Round 23 - Richmond
Round 24 - North

That's one of the softest runs of all time to be cherry picking stats from. Over the whole season Newcombe was a level or two below the best in the league, like he has been throughout his career.

Still a very good player, but I don't see a Petracca or Bont on the Hawks list to carry them to the finish line.

Hahaha i have to say Carlton have a habit of capitulating so i will give you that but Freo had just beaten Sydney and a few others and were playing well. Have you even watched the Freo game. Not to say Newk had a great game but serong and brayshaw had low 20s themselves. You don't need superstars when you spread the load. Being heavy reliant on two or 3 superstars is all well and good when they perform or are not injured but when they are not you end up so called team capitualtions. It is because we are so even across the board that we are so dangerous. It makes us harder to stop. In any case this is all speculation and opinion. Let's see what 2025 brings

 

[Blackhawk42]

I like Sicily. But yes, Ginnivan and Watson. For a kid that's 168cm tall, he has no right to be cocky

I actually didn't know physical height was a requirement for self-confidence

Somebody want to have a word with Floyd Maywhether, Tom Cruise, Peter Dinklidge and every jockey ever??

 

[Blackhawk42]

Are Newcombe or Day in the realms of Cripps, Daicos, Neale, Bont, Butters etc?

Do they need to be?

Only 3 of those 5 have won flags in the past decade.

Also, the Hawks/Dogs elimination final might be worth a re-watch for some.
Newcombe, up against Bont, Treloar and Libba, polled the full 10 coaches votes with 35 disposals and a goal.

 

[Ctracks]

Carlton
Hawthorn
GWS
Sydney
Fremantle
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Western
Adelaide
Geelong
Gold Coast
Collingwood
St Kilda
Melbourne
Essendon
West Coast
North Melbourne
Richmond

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton
Hawthorn
GWS
Sydney
Fremantle
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Western
Adelaide
Geelong
Gold Coast
Collingwood
St Kilda
Melbourne
Essendon
West Coast
North Melbourne
Richmond

Doubt we finish that high or the Pies that low

Dockers tad high, Cats a tad low, but not unreasonable

 

[Hot Scodges]

My two cents' worth. See you all on or about Sunday 31 August 2025:

Brisbane
Fremantle
Hawthorn
Sydney
Geelong
Port Adelaide
Gold Coast
Adelaide
Carlton
Collingwood
GWS
Western Bulldogs
St Kilda
Melbourne
Essendon
West Coast
North Melbourne
Richmond

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Against which teams in the back end of the year though?

Round 14 - Richmond
Round 15 - Bye
Round 16 - WCE
Round 17 - Geelong (Got absolutely pumped)
Round 18 - Freo (during their capitulation)
Round 19 - Collingwood
Round 20 - Adelaide
Round 21 - GWS (Lost)
Round 22 - Carlton (during their capitulation)
Round 23 - Richmond
Round 24 - North

That's one of the softest runs of all time to be cherry picking stats from. Over the whole season Newcombe was a level or two below the best in the league, like he has been throughout his career.

Still a very good player, but I don't see a Petracca or Bont on the Hawks list to carry them to the finish line.

His last 5 games so

North
Richmond

Carlton, GWS, Adelaide.

Carlton “capitulation” is funny, barely lost to Port and Collingwood weeks prior, then beat Eagles, another close loss and a loss in the finals.

They weren’t going that well but they weren’t going that badly either.

It wasn’t even Newcombes best game, he had two very good games against Adelaide and GWS + the two easy beats.

It would be easy to say if he hadn’t backed that up with a dominant game in the first finals and a very good one against Port.

He is the Petracca type in the way he plays and he will further cement himself as a star of the comp, which at this stage is subjective.

IF Bont or Petracca had stat lines of

29 disposals @ 82% DE
13 contested
8.5 clearances (5 CL)
1 goal a game
1.6 goal assists
9.2 score involvements

28 coaches votes over 5 games

They would be frothing over the fact they’re the dominant force of the AFL.

He won the ball, inside and out, he was using the ball well and being damaging kicking goals, averaging nearly 2 goal assists over that period as a mid with 9+ score inv. Not including two quality finals appearances.

Again subjective and downplaying him is odd.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He averaged 24.8 disposals and kicked 11 goals from 25 games. They're the raw facts.

I'm sure he gets very good value from his possessions, but he's not top 20 in the league for score involvements or goal assists. For eg Petracca had more goal assists from half as many games.

He's only 23, so I'm sure he'll get better. You're elevating his station before he arrives.

Taking into account the form of the side earlier in the year is worth noting. Still polling 24 votes and being top 10/top 20 for coaches votes and Brownlow votes aswell as AA40 in 2023 is clear he’s not just a good player and is more, watch him and you’ll realise he’s not just a “disposal merchant” odd observation.

He will get better and even without consistency he is still performing to a very high level. Doing it especially at the golden part of the season.