21st Century draft - full 22 edition

[Guardian Hawk]

 

[Mr Meow]

Jeff Farmer

FB:	*	*	*
CHB:	*	*	*
C:	*	Patrick Cripps	*
CHF:	*	Barry Hall	*
FF:	Jeff Farmer	Fraser Gehrig	*
R:	*	Chris Judd	*
INT:	*	*	*
	*

whatwhatsaywhat

Another I wanted to slip down the order even further.

The one season he was in a great team, he kicked 70+ goals. In a team of champions he'd have had a bunch of incredible seasons like that.

 

[Sphynx]

Another I wanted to slip down the order even further.

The one season he was in a great team, he kicked 70+ goals. In a team of champions he'd have had a bunch of incredible seasons like that.

Still averaged 1.92 goals a game.

More than Bruest & Betts and only slightly behind Milne.

First indigenous footballer to 400 goals in the AFL.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Also the Wiz had some really top shelf stuff. Marks, goals cellys. Loved Farmer.

 

[Mr Meow]

Still averaged 1.92 goals a game.

More than Bruest & Betts and only slightly behind Milne.

First indigenous footballer to 400 goals.

Goal averages for modern gun forwards can be surprisingly low. It's very difficult to compare different eras. There wasn't an overlaps between peak Farmer and the latter two.

 

[Sphynx]

Also the Wiz had some really top shelf stuff. Marks, goals cellys. Loved Farmer.

 

[Sphynx]

Goal averages for modern gun forwards can be surprisingly low. It's very difficult to compare different eras.

Yeah I know that, was only a point of comparison.

Farmer and Milne aren't too seperated in eras imo.

I'd argue though, the modern game is far more conducive to damaging small forwards than Farmer's era.

He'd have thrived.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Great player.

I was hoping to pick him up with a much later pick.

Oh well, back to the draft board...

Yeah, me too (well, not much later but probably not this round).

Loved the Wiz (OG/real version) and rate him very highly but re-reviewed him earlier today (with a view to next round) and remembered that whilst his best (2000) was ridiculous (remember the game he kicked 9 in a half, sitting on heads?), he only had 3 seasons over 40 goals.

 

[Lingsface]

The Wiz sells tickets and at his best as good as their has been.

 

[Mr Meow]

Still averaged 1.92 goals a game.

More than Bruest & Betts and only slightly behind Milne.

First indigenous footballer to 400 goals in the AFL.

Both played longer (especially Breust) and Milne averaged more goals, by the way. Still a good pick. The former two are ahead as far as number of elite seasons.

 

[Sphynx]

Yeah, me too (well, not much later but probably not this round).

Loved the Wiz (OG/real version) and rate him very highly but re-reviewed him earlier today (with a view to next round) and remembered that whilst his best (2000) was ridiculous (remember the game he kicked 9 in a half, sitting on heads?), he only had 3 seasons over 40 goals.

Only really down to 17-20 game season fluctuations.

Not a fan of totals, as it depends on minor injuries, finals totals etc.

His GPG stacks up with the absolute best.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah, me too (well, not much later but probably not this round).

Loved the Wiz (OG/real version) and rate him very highly but re-reviewed him earlier today (with a view to next round) and remembered that whilst his best (2000) was ridiculous (remember the game he kicked 9 in a half, sitting on heads?), he only had 3 seasons over 40 goals.

Breust and Milne meanwhile both had 8 seasons at 40+ goals. They did play in a higher number of strong team seasons though.

 

[RUNVS]

Only really down to 17-20 game season fluctuations.

Not a fan of totals, as it depends on minor injuries, finals totals etc.

His GPG stacks up with the absolute bests.

It is actually a reason I don't rate Martin in the top 10 of the 21st century as yes his best was amazing, but he only played at his best for 4 or 5 seasons. He took forever to reach his best, got 4 or 5 seasons of it, then dropped back down again. The other midfielders around him did that for 10 years, not 5.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

OP updated with new spreadsheet. Thanks eth-dog and Purple7x08_24

 

[RUNVS]

OP updated with new spreadsheet. Thanks eth-dog and purple 7x08

Purple has no gap between the purple and the 7x08. Putting in the gap means the tagging won't work. Learned that the hard way an hour or so ago

 

[Sphynx]

Both played longer (especially Breust) and Milne averaged more goals, by the way. Still a good pick. The former two are ahead as far as number of elite seasons.

Again, you value games played clearly.

I don't.

I prefer Wayne Carey over Tom Hawkins. Hawkins has 700+ goals because he played 350 games as a key forward. He'd technically have 'more elite seasons' than Carey.

Personally after 150+ games I start looking at quality over quantity.

I also qualified the reasoning and stated Milne averaged more goals per game.


We are splitting hairs also.

 

[Lingsface]

Breust and Milne meanwhile both had 8 seasons at 40+ goals. They did play in a higher number of strong team seasons though.

I think Breust you would deduct 3 seasons without finals so back to 5. Farmer only had one season with finals at fremantle and he was above the 40 before finals.

 

[Mr Meow]

Again, you value games played clearly.

I don't.

I prefer Wayne Carey over Tom Hawkins. Hawkins has 700+ goals because he played 350 games as a key forward. He'd technically have 'more elite seasons' than Carey.

Personally after 150+ games I start looking at quality over quantity.

I also qualified the reasoning and stated Milne averaged more goals per game.


We are splitting hairs also.

Nah, Hawkins vs Carey is simply not an apt comparison for Breust/Milne vs Farmer in this case. It's actually a disingenuous argument to imply that my line of thinking would equate Hawkins > Carey, so now it's time to move on.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Breust and Milne meanwhile both had 8 seasons at 40+ goals. They did play in a higher number of strong team seasons though.

Breust did it in the awful years of '22 and '23 too.

 

[Sphynx]

Breust and Milne meanwhile both had 8 seasons at 40+ goals. They did play in a higher number of strong team seasons though.

Bruest and Farmer both have 5 x seasons of 2+ goals per game.

Farmer really only played what you would consider as 2 full complete seasons out of 13 so is impacted more than most on season totals vs averages.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Purple has no gap between the purple and the 7x08. Putting in the gap means the tagging won't work. Learned that the hard way an hour or so ago

I knew it didn't work but even without the gap it keeps having trouble finding him. Not sure why (aside from the fact there are heaps of "purples").

 

[Mr Meow]

I think Breust you would deduct 3 seasons without finals so back to 5. Farmer only had one season with finals at fremantle and he was above the 40 before finals.

By the same token you can argue it's harder for small forwards to score goals in finals and to hold good averages across a large set of finals can add to your case. Breust was an important component of a dominant forward line that was dynasty-worthy (and likely their most decisive line).

The comparisons will always have a million different caveats for these and other reasons.

For instance you can argue till the cows come home whether it is easier to be a small forward among other great small forwards, or will your averages be favoured if you are the standalone goal sneak?

 

[Mr Meow]

Breust did it in the awful years of '22 and '23 too.

And he was in a lower scoring era overall, I'm almost certain of that - than Farmer was.

 

[RUNVS]

By the same token you can argue it's harder for small forwards to score goals in finals and to hold good averages across a large set of finals can add to your case. Breust was an important component of a dominant forward line that was dynasty-worthy (and likely their most decisive line).

The comparisons will always have a million different caveats for these and other reasons.

For instance you can argue till the cows come home whether it is easier to be a small forward among other great small forwards, or will your averages be favoured if you are the standalone goal sneak?

My reasoning with going with both Rioli and Milne is most teams usually have one player who is really good at taking on a small forward, and having two elite small forwards is going to stretch most teams defences. I also love the extra pressure a player like Rioli puts on opposition defenders as he can take down anyone in a tackle.

I was very conscious of not having two or three lumbering key forwards who while great on paper would also be terrible defensively so the moment the ball hits the deck it is flying out of your forward line.

 

[Lingsface]

By the same token you can argue it's harder for small forwards to score goals in finals and to hold good averages across a large set of finals can add to your case. Breust was an important component of a dominant forward line that was dynasty-worthy (and likely their most decisive line).

The comparisons will always have a million different caveats for these and other reasons.

For instance you can argue till the cows come home whether it is easier to be a small forward among other great small forwards, or will your averages be favoured if you are the standalone goal sneak?

Yes its an argument that has no ending for sure, Fremantle did have Paul Medhurst as well I loved watching them as a youngster such an exciting combination. They didnt really have much of a full forward except a few stints from Modra as well. I think depending on your structure of the rest of the forward line you could argue for both, if you had a Johnno Brown who never loses a contest and is a big contested type player I want Farmer or Milne high speed picking up the crumbs doing uncanny things if I had a Reiwoldt or Franklin I want a Breust who is a smart leading player and good crumber well rounded star.

 

[Sphynx]

By the same token you can argue it's harder for small forwards to score goals in finals and to hold good averages across a large set of finals can add to your case. Breust was an important component of a dominant forward line that was dynasty-worthy (and likely their most decisive line).

The comparisons will always have a million different caveats for these and other reasons.

For instance you can argue till the cows come home whether it is easier to be a small forward among other great small forwards, or will your averages be favoured if you are the standalone goal sneak?

Champion Data argue the complete opposite.

Finals are a messy ground ball game and have been for 25+ years. A style of game that key forwards often really struggle in.

They go to the point of arguing key forwards are really only super valuable for top 4 qualification rather than flag consideration these days.

Small and medium forwards are often the game breakers in finals - see Bobby Hill, Toby Greene, Tyson Stengle, Tom Papley, Walters, Cyril Rioli, Paul Chapman, Steve Johnson in recent history etc.