3 scumbag thugs at Sunshine station

[Karl Pilkington]

Obviously the fact that asylum seekers arriving by boat actually fly from the Middle East to Asia before getting on a boat escapes you.

You said refugees matey. Refugee does not = asylum seeker.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Fancy the notion that an Australian government should actually act in the best interests of the people who elect it.

Never mind that mass unskilled immigration is clearly negative for Australia, let us embrace it and give ourselves a warm inner glow.

Immigration is different from refugees matey.

 

[Magnum]

LOL that made me laugh. We're a very corrupt country with fourth world conditions for our aboriginals, bad race relations, short term thinking and an incredibly greedy generation of baby boomers at the helm.

It seems you've got a fair chip on your shoulder with that kind of mentality, Karl. I don't blame you for having those views, the coutry is not perfect, my cousins are in a similar boat now to what you were and seem to have similar views and outlook, "It's not fair" basically. Your perspective is totally valid from what you've been through and your life experiences to date. But the fact remains that you see what you want to see. With a better attitute my cousins could contribute so much more to society and have better lives.

They see negatives where there really aren't any and accuse people of things that were never meant to be insults or disrespect. These fester in their minds and it seems a cycle of 'the worlds against me'. I hope they'll change but I suspect that in 20 years they'll be more bitter with life and be in the same boat just because they have such a defeatist/victim attitude.

You get enjoyment out of sport right? The adrenaline? Same thing with fighting, there is some kind of chemical reaction that takes place when you're laying into someone. You might get the guilts later and regret it, they might have deserved it, but at the time when you're punching the shit out of someone its a rush. Even better if there's a few mates with you and you've bashed a bunch of other people.

You should have properly learned how to fight Karl, no joke. Channelled your anger into productive persuits. For example, I've trained in mixed martial arts for over 5 years, and there has been a number of guys in similar situations/backgrounds from what you have described and they literally say that it has 'saved their lives'. One bloke I train with did nothing but graffiti trains for 10 years, no job, no real chance, hated the world, etc but the dude now trains 5 days a week, puts his focus into this and it has been personally rewarding for him reaching far outside just learning how to fight. Maybe its that he's hanging around with better people, maybe its that he has to 'earn' his respect, I'm not sure, but he is a better member of society for it. The changes have been amazing. Its quite funny, sometimes it seems that the more aggressive the outlet, the more respectful the personality becomes.

I'm not going to try and psycho babble you with all this, I'm just saying that you CAN make more of yourself no matter your upbringing if your attitude is open and positive. That's just my 2c anyway... Its cool you're being honest with the forum too...

 

[medusala]

You said refugees matey. Refugee does not = asylum seeker.

I totally agree. Yet asylum seekers still apply for refugee status.

Immigration is different from refugees matey.

No, one is a subset of the other. Note I said unskilled immigrants. There is a very high correlation re that and refugees, hence higher unemployment and crime stats.

Regardless of all this, there surely must be an argument for the govt to cancel the visas of immigrants found guilty of serious crime.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I totally agree. Yet asylum seekers still apply for refugee status.

And they are entitled to.

No, one is a subset of the other. Note I said unskilled immigrants. There is a very high correlation re that and refugees, hence higher unemployment and crime stats.

As to be expected for a number of reasons such as adjusting to a new culture and society, as well as the fact a large number of refugees are in demographics susceptible to crime (young males) and are also placed in areas with heavier police patrolling (i.e. crime figures only go on convictions).

Regardless of all this, there surely must be an argument for the govt to cancel the visas of immigrants found guilty of serious crime.

And there is. Happened to a bloke from my area from Africa - paralysed someone with a shopping trolley pole and stabbed someone, got deported after his sentence.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Fancy the notion that an Australian government should actually act in the best interests of the people who elect it.

um, migrants not only add an enormous amount to our culture, but believe it or not, they actually usually become citizens, and then they are the people who elect the government...

Fail

Never mind that mass unskilled immigration is clearly negative for Australia

source?

You might like eating meat and 3 veg every night with the occasional fish n chip dinner thrown in for variety; and I have no doubt that, whilst you probably drink coffee, you decry the caffe latte chattering set.

I however actually like the vibrancy that different cultures have added to Australia; and if we hadn't had the previous waves of immigrants, many of whom were "unskilled" (& all of whom were stoutly rejected by people like yourself, of course) then Australia would be a ****ing shit-hole and an economic basket-case

 

[Bodicifer]

The simplicity of your generalisations roles on unabated I see.

Anyway, you didn't simply 'mention' their ethnicity, did you? As I recall it, this is what you said:



So, did you want to discuss the crime, or did you want to discuss the fact that these offenders were from an African nation, and shouldn't have been let into the country?

I wasn't actually directing my original post spefically at you, although it is blatantly clear that you are xenophobic.[/quote]

That's why I married a foreigner...Claude Balls, you are an idiot.

I agree with Lance, immigration and multiculturalism makes this country great. Being able to help refugees as well find a better place to live is warming. What I don't agree with is those who are accepted into Australia who commit shocking crimes then we have to support them financially. I feel it is a slap in the face to this great country, especially when we have opened our hearst to refugees and they then commit crimes with no excuse whatsoever.

 

[haywood jablome]

Australia is a golden palace compared to the shit hole they came from, although I'm sure they probably miss family members etc.

 

[Chief]

Its just one of those things some young blokes go through (I'd say a majority) when you're trying new things, and you so many fights you figure what the hell, I'll give that a shot. Its a potential identity.

You think a majority of young blokes cruise around looking for fights?

 

[Karl Pilkington]

You think a majority of young blokes cruise around looking for fights?

Not so sure about 'cruise around' but definitely a lot will fight if the chance presents itself.

Aussie culture, mate.

 

[Chief]

I was talking about with no prior convictions... I could have explained it better:

Still they can have character witnesses, and the prosecution can dig up their own witnesses as to the character of the people.

If it IS their first time in front of the courts they're either smart or lucky.

And for the guys who beat up the African kid, it doesn't seem that this was their first time in front of a judge.

 

[bit_pattern]

About as good as use of statistics as the Hockey Stick.

Cherry picking as usual (and dubiously compares rates to all Australians rather than Australian born)

Noone other than your Media Watch type head in the ground muliticultural zealots believes that refugees dont have a higher offence rate than the Australian born population.

Funnily enough its the same people who bang on about crime and poverty yet ignore the blatanty obvious link between refugees and poverty and crime.

Right, and do you have any statistics to back up your opinions?

Here´s more evidence to the contrary, this time dealing with the perceived rampant crime among Vietnamese youth in NSW during the 1980´s.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/viet/exec.html

New South Wales minors, ages 10-17, 1985-1987

1. The Vietnamese rate for proven offenders was significantly lower (almost half) than the non-Vietnamese over the three-year period. Thus, this group appears to be less at risk for criminal activity than the non-Vietnamese.
2. Growth in the Vietnamese proven offender rate during the three years has been moderate and not statistically significant.
3. Non-Vietnamese girls' court appearances occurred at five to eight times the rate of Vietnamese girls.
4. Each year over 70 per cent of the Vietnamese minors making a court appearance were first offenders. In 1987, the non-Vietnamese rate for those with two or more prior court appearances was over six times that of the Vietnamese.
5. Although the Vietnamese assault rate increased from 1985 to 1987, non-Vietnamese minors showed a similar upsurge in violent crimes.

New South Wales unaccompanied minors, ages 10-17, 1985-1987

1. Of the offending minors sample, 4.1 per cent were unaccompanied, which is markedly low if one considers that unaccompanied minors make up 12 per cent of the total refugee minor youth.
2. The mean offence rate for unaccompanied minors was 257.7 per 100 000, significantly below the accompanied offenders' rate of 823.4 per 100 000. Thus, this group appears to be less at risk for criminal activity than those arriving with their parents.

New South Wales youth offenders, ages 18-24, 1985-1987

1. The Vietnamese youth crime rate rose significantly from 1985 to 1987 and latterly was more than double the rate for those over age 24. However, proportionate to their respective total populations Vietnamese youth committed fewer crimes than non-Vietnamese youth. This is particularly significant since non-Vietnamese youth constitute a smaller proportion of their total population as compared to the Vietnamese.
2. The non-Vietnamese youth offence rate has also risen significantly since 1985 and is now almost double the crime rate of Vietnamese youth; for males, it was more than two times greater in 1987. Thus, Vietnamese youth are clearly a lower crime risk group.
3. The violent crime rate for Vietnamese youth has increased since 1985 but the increment was not statistically significant. In 1987, the Vietnamese youth violent crime rate continued to be much lower than their non-Vietnamese counterparts.
4. There appears to be a relatively high murder rate within the Vietnamese community, though unfortunately the available statistics are not comparable with the statistics used elsewhere in the report, being available only for the age range 18 and over, and for victims rather than offenders. Given these methodological limitations, and the fact that the apparent finding on murder contradicts the direction of all other findings in the report (i.e. lower Vietnamese than non-Vietnamese crime rates), it is not possible to draw firm conclusions on levels of Vietnamese participation in murder.
5. Non-Vietnamese youth participation in fraud remains significantly higher than for Vietnamese youth.
6. Although the Vietnamese youths' larceny rate doubled from 1986 to 1987, it was still marginally lower than the non-Vietnamese rate.
7. There was a virtual dearth of breaking and entering type offences committed by Vietnamese.
8. The non-Vietnamese drink-driving rate was almost four times that of Vietnamese youth in 1987, consistent with the highly significant difference for the prior two years.
9. In 1987, the Vietnamese youth drug offences rate was almost 15 times lower than the non-Vietnamese rate.
10. For both Vietnamese and non-Vietnamese, almost one half of the offenders each year were unemployed.
11. A high percentage of Vietnamese offenders live in four Sydney suburbs. Three of these areas had higher crime rates in 1976, prior to the large-scale influx of Vietnamese, than in 1987. Further, for both Vietnamese and non-Vietnamese, these neighbourhoods' crime rates for 1985-1987 were higher than the average for the rest of New South Wales.
12. Females of all ages and populations were less prone to criminal activity than males. The 18-24 year old Vietnamese women's rate exceeded that of Vietnamese women over age 24 in 1987, a reversal of the prior two years. However, they remained virtual non-participants in violent offences, breaking and entering, drink-driving and drug offences.

Conclusion

The data refute the media portrayal of rampant youth violence in the Vietnamese community. Indigenous cultural values such as identity and loyalty of the individual to the family and the 'loss of face' incurred by anti-social activity may act as strong deterrents.

So DO you have any evidence to abck up your racist attitudes, or are you just relying on sensationalist media reports?

*EDIT*

And a brief perusal of the AIC shows that crimes committed by Australian born people overwhelmingly eclipse those commited by any other country of birth

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti117.pdf

 

[medusala]

um, migrants not only add an enormous amount to our culture, but believe it or not, they actually usually become citizens, and then they are the people who elect the government...

The usual clutching at straws attempt, nothing concrete so offer up "culture"

source?

Read any of the threads on immigration, crime and employment/income stats have been posted time and again.

You might like eating meat and 3 veg every night with the occasional fish n chip dinner thrown in for variety; and I have no doubt that, whilst you probably drink coffee, you decry the caffe latte chattering set.

Yes we need 300k immigrants a year so I can drink coffee.

Can you not get coffee in Japan? Utterly woeful argument.

I however actually like the vibrancy that different cultures have added to Australia; and if we hadn't had the previous waves of immigrants, many of whom were "unskilled" (& all of whom were stoutly rejected by people like yourself, of course) then Australia would be a ****ing shit-hole and an economic basket-case

Palpable nonsense. Australia had the 2nd highest living standard of any country in the world just after WWII.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

The usual clutching at straws attempt, nothing concrete so offer up "culture"

Culture is very important to any individual and largely shapes their actions.

I can tell just from reading your posts that the primary culture your personality is shaped by is British/Australian, probably middle or upper middle class. You're also a baby boomer or at least an older member of Gen-X, Right?

I can also tell that Lance's background culture is likely Irish Catholic/Australian, probably working class or lower middle class, and that he's university educated and probably a younger Gen X-er.

Just guesswork, but I don't reckon I'd be too far off.

 

[medusala]

So DO you have any evidence to abck up your racist attitudes, or are you just relying on sensationalist media reports?

This has been done to death on other threads, do a search and you will find it. A quick google gives.

www.aic.gov.au/conferences/evaluation/beyer1.pdf

More comprehensive examination of available statistics enabled this research to identify that young offenders of Vietnamese birth are:•proportionally much more likely to be arrested by police


..
www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-ch6.pdf

In this report we have presented statistics on the arrest and imprisonment of peopleborn in Australia and some overseas-born groups who have made Australia theirnew home. The arrest data used in this report relate to the State of Victoria and theimprisonment data relate to the whole of Australia. The arrest data show thatproportionate to their population, migrants from nine source countries werearrested, both as alleged offenders and distinct offenders, at a higher rate thanthose born in Australia. It must be stated, however, that arrest rate of two migrantgroups was only marginally higher than that of the Australian-born, for others therate was substantially higher. It is also useful to state that the arrest rate of eight ofthese migrant groups was higher than that of the Australian-born for all the fiveyears for which data are available

...

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-intro.pdf

The number of inmates in Australian prisons has increased from 10,195 in
1983 to 19,906 in 1998. The number of inmates born in Vietnam has
increased from 18 to 474 during the same period.
Imprisonment rate of inmates born in Turkey, Lebanon and New Zealand
has always been substantially higher than that of those born in Australia;
since 1989 the rate of those born in Vietnam has been increasing and
currently their rate is the highest. The same pattern is obtained when the
rate based on most serious offences of violence, property and drugs is
examined separately.
.
.......
As for your Australian born jibe that is oh so typically a blatant sleight of hand. Its like saying the UK doesnt have an issue with its Pakistani community because the trouble makers were born in the UK

As always not hard to demolish your Hockey Stick like efforts at stats.

High crime rates for unskilled immigrants and refugees is apparent all across the Western world. It happens not only in Australia but France, UK, USA, Denmark etc etc etc.

When pointing out the obvious truth all the usual suspects can offer is "racism" and "but we get to eat pizza"

Confirmation of the blatantly obvious re Australia

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-intro.pdf

Crime statistics from Victoria, the National Prison Census, and the
Australian Census of Population and Housing appear to show that migrant
groups who suffer disadvantages such as poor knowledge of English, no or
low level of formal education, low status occupation, and high
unemployment rate tend to display high arrest and imprisonment rate.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

This has been done to death on other threads, do a search and you will find it. A quick google gives.

www.aic.gov.au/conferences/evaluation/beyer1.pdf

More comprehensive examination of available statistics enabled this research to identify that young offenders of Vietnamese birth are:•proportionally much more likely to be arrested by police

Doesn't take into account the fact that Vietnamese areas (Richmond, Spriongvale, Footscray) are much more heavily patrolled than non-Vietnamese areas.

 

[medusala]

Culture is very important to any individual and largely shapes their actions.

I can tell just from reading your posts that the primary culture your personality is shaped by is British/Australian, probably middle or upper middle class. You're also a baby boomer or at least an older member of Gen-X, Right?

I can also tell that Lance's background culture is likely Irish Catholic/Australian, probably working class or lower middle class, and that he's university educated and probably a younger Gen X-er.

Just guesswork, but I don't reckon I'd be too far off.

I am way off being a baby boomer. This side of middle of Gen x.

I dont totally disagree with your assertion. The Spaniards getting rid of the Jews was a disaster for them, ditto the French and the Huguenots.

However, lets not pretend a bunch of working class riff raff some a shxtty council estate in Glascow for example would add anything to the culture of Melbourne.

I live only a few miles from South London. Its very much a truism that the latte sippers who proclaim their love of multiculturalism never venture down there. Its an utter dump. Its a culture free zone.

You can say the same re parts of Melbourne and Sydney.

 

[medusala]

Doesn't take into account the fact that Vietnamese areas (Richmond, Spriongvale, Footscray) are much more heavily patrolled than non-Vietnamese areas.

Why would the police patrol Toorak more than those areas? I used to live in Richmond, you never used to see cops patrol.

It reminds me of the time of the London bombings when muppets demanded the police not discriminate on the basis of race and search people of all age and race's bags.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I am way off being a baby boomer. This side of middle of Gen x.

Was the rest pretty accurate then?

I dont totally disagree with your assertion. The Spaniards getting rid of the Jews was a disaster for them, ditto the French and the Huguenots.

However, lets not pretend a bunch of working class riff raff some a shxtty council estate in Glascow for example would add anything to the culture of Melbourne.

Well if you look at the Irish, Greek and Italian immigration to Melbourne, they were mainly the poorer people in their home countries who faced a lot prejudice when they arrived in Australia. They certainly weren't the cultural elite at any rate. Yet they've obviously contributed a great deal to Melbourne as a city (and imo those three groups and the culture's they borught with them have had a bigger positive effect on our cities culture than any other groups).

Turks, Serbs, Croatians, Polish, Jews, Indians, Chinese have all had marked positive effects on this city.

I live only a few miles from South London. Its very much a truism that the latte sippers who proclaim their love of multiculturalism never venture down there. Its an utter dump. Its a culture free zone.

You can say the same re parts of Melbourne and Sydney.

Well Brunswick and Coburg are both cultural hotspots of Melbourne, and have very large immigrant populations. Same with Richmond, Fitzroy and Collingwood.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

It reminds me of the time of the London bombings when muppets demanded the police not discriminate on the basis of race and search people of all age and race's bags.

MI6 consider the IRA a more likely candidate to commit terrorist bombings in London at the moment. Checking everyone's bags would make sense, regardless of race.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

I live only a few miles from South London. Its very much a truism that the latte sippers who proclaim their love of multiculturalism never venture down there. Its an utter dump. Its a culture free zone.

Medusala, what type of ethnic groups reside in South London?

I know where you are coming from. Personally, I don't have a problem with immigration in Australia. Well it doesn't affect me at all. But I really believe that people that are negatively affected by it, should have a right to speak out about it. For instance, I don't think that I have the right to tell you how to feel about immigration in your area, because I don't live there, and it affects you not me.

 

[mantis]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/764226/accused-murderer-stabs-judge

Another innocent white person. These are the sort of people we should let immigrate here.

 

[mantis]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/764549/four-youths-jailed-over-arson-attack

Four more scumbag thugs & their punishment? Minimum 3 years jail, maximum five.

 

[Bodicifer]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/764549/four-youths-jailed-over-arson-attack

Four more scumbag thugs & their punishment? Minimum 3 years jail, maximum five.

That is disgusting how these mongrels can walk free in 2 years because of the concurrent sentence. The poor old bloke who will suffer in agony for the rest of his life yet these scumbag melons get struck with the feathersword. This is why I have very little confidence in our justice system to deliver the right punishment. Too soft.

 

[Kim Chambers]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/764549/four-youths-jailed-over-arson-attack

Four more scumbag thugs & their punishment? Minimum 3 years jail, maximum five.

It's okay Mantis. If the minority declared war on the colour grey tomorrow, you would find a way to agree with them. We get it. Stand up and have an opinion of your own.