Past #36: Shannon Watt - drafted at #14 in '97 ND - 155 games - 0 Brownlow votes - original whipping boy

[Carlos]

I can't believe i just wasted the time required to get through all that crap! There's 5 or so minutes of my life i'll never get back.

Keep it in perspective. The bloke had a bad game ok?

It happens. Mick Martyn had plenty at the same age.

Sure, i was gutted with it all on Sunday, but shouldnt the bigger question be asked why the match up was allowed to continue for so long?

Who is the strongest put of all our defensive key possie types?

Leigh Brown would be my guess.

He obviously wasn't playing the surrogate ruckman role he's been doing the last month and a bit, he was barely existant up forward so why the hell wasnt he given more than 20 seconds of Gherig?

Strength wise, he could have matched him in the one-on-one's and i'd back him in the air.

Watt would have been a much more comfortable match up for Reiwoldt, Arch to Hamill and Baird to stick with which ever ******* he was on. Seemed simple to me.

And the move of Porter to the bench and Petrie into the ruck, despite both dominating their positions had me dumbfounded. Perhaps that is for another thread, but it all pointed to one of Laidley and co's worst efforts in the box this year IMO.

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by Carlos
I can't believe i just wasted the time required to get through all that crap! There's 5 or so minutes of my life i'll never get back.

Keep it in perspective. The bloke had a bad game ok?

It happens. Mick Martyn had plenty at the same age.

Sure, i was gutted with it all on Sunday, but shouldnt the bigger question be asked why the match up was allowed to continue for so long?

Who is the strongest put of all our defensive key possie types?

Leigh Brown would be my guess.

He obviously wasn't playing the surrogate ruckman role he's been doing the last month and a bit, he was barely existant up forward so why the hell wasnt he given more than 20 seconds of Gherig?

Strength wise, he could have matched him in the one-on-one's and i'd back him in the air.

Watt would have been a much more comfortable match up for Reiwoldt, Arch to Hamill and Baird to stick with which ever ******* he was on. Seemed simple to me.

And the move of Porter to the bench and Petrie into the ruck, despite both dominating their positions had me dumbfounded. Perhaps that is for another thread, but it all pointed to one of Laidley and co's worst efforts in the box this year IMO.

A thread questioning our coaches' decisions. I can feel another one of those Moomba segmented replies coming on...

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by windsock
A thread questioning our coaches' decisions. I can feel another one of those Moomba segmented replies coming on...

Without knowing of any possible injuries to Porter, I pretty much agree with Carlos, and have already commented in another thread (and at the game) that I don't know why Porter didn't get more time on the ground in the last quarter.

I detect a slight hint of sarcasm (ha) here but I'll respond anyway. If you could be bothered (I certainly can't) going back through my posts I think you will find that I generally prefer not to respond too much to fair criticisms of our players and coach (I have even been known to agree to some of it), it's when the "useless", "moronic", "should never play another game for the club again" terms come out that I feel inclined to defend the players concerned.

Moomba

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by year of the roo
i been bagging him all year!!

Good for you. You managed to get onto an internet site and bag a player. Well done.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Briedis
Good for you. You managed to get onto an internet site and bag a player. Well done.

C'mon mate, you'd be having a go if he owed you $17.

 

[Horace]

Originally posted by Carlos

Who is the strongest put of all our defensive key possie types?

Leigh Brown would be my guess.

He obviously wasn't playing the surrogate ruckman role he's been doing the last month and a bit, he was barely existant up forward so why the hell wasnt he given more than 20 seconds of Gherig?

Strength wise, he could have matched him in the one-on-one's and i'd back him in the air.

Watt would have been a much more comfortable match up for Reiwoldt, Arch to Hamill and Baird to stick with which ever ******* he was on. Seemed simple to me.

And the move of Porter to the bench and Petrie into the ruck, despite both dominating their positions had me dumbfounded. Perhaps that is for another thread, but it all pointed to one of Laidley and co's worst efforts in the box this year IMO.

Agree with you Carlos, some strange decisions from the Coaches box, though it is probably easier to say this in hindsight.

I can to a degree understand Drew staying on the ball for all of the last quarter, given he performed well in that role.

However when Porter came off shortly before 3/4 time I honestly thought that Laidley was giving him a breather before asking him for a big last quarter effort. Porter had rucked and contested well until he was taken off I thought.

At the very least when a battered Corey Jones was brought back on late in the game, I believe a better option would have been to bring Ports back to either patrol across half back and block up the gap to Gehrig, or alternatively back into the ruck to free Petrie up to go back up forward, where late in the game he might have taken one or two telling grabs and nailed a goal or two.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Horace

However when Porter came off shortly before 3/4 time I honestly thought that Laidley was giving him a breather before asking him for a big last quarter effort. Porter had rucked and contested well until he was taken off I thought.

At the very least when a battered Corey Jones was brought back on late in the game, I believe a better option would have been to bring Ports back to either patrol across half back and block up the gap to Gehrig, or alternatively back into the ruck to free Petrie up to go back up forward, where late in the game he might have taken one or two telling grabs and nailed a goal or two.

It's still got me stuffed... tall bloke don't get any shorter, but the 190cm blokes he was rucking against needed to get more and more leap out of their legs as the game went on.

And all of this going on while our CHF, who was doing pretty bloody well, is sent in as his replacement!!!

Ultimately though, the crux of the matter is the 7 goal deficit from the first term...the opponent wasn't Hawthorn of 1988, it was St.Kilda 2003 under Grant farken Thomas... you can't even look into these things deeply enough to find logical answers.

Perplexed by some of the moves made by Laidley, and I have aired this concern privately before (over the mid-season break, Carlos can back me up here).... but moves or no moves, this sort of stuff shouldn't happen when you're talking about a side that wasnts to be a part of the finals action.

 

[Woodson]

Going ONE STEP further......

Originally posted by moomba
ask if a dual premiership player should be exempt from vicious vitriol, I would say absolutely. By all means criticise, but we seem to be a message board full of people that have forgotten what some of our players, coaches and administrators have actually done for this club.
Moomba

A very fine line between strong criticism that relate to the present
time and flushing vicious vitriol over a player. I tend to read between the lines of outrageous slander...it's an angry outlet of emotion. That's all. I don't have a problem if it's coming from a PAID UP member.
However, turning it to a situation of 'calling for a players head' as I DID during the 2001 to North's Football Manager, I believe that
is bringing a reality bite fact to the fore.

If I was seething along with the rest of you yesterday, I was emotionally bleeding with Corey's (McK) progress in 2001 that I just had to act. btw it was mid season of 2001 before Ess game

 

[woosha]

Just something that all mates have been thinking about as watt has got no idea about playing Full back maybe he should go full forward and see how he goes.



Go Roos

 

[year of the roo]

ahhhh no, we got no one else to play FB, theres enough pressure on baird at CHB as it is. the FF answer is mcintosh, hale or even morrell...never watt!!

 

[Angus1]

I think we are all just hoping that somehow he will get a lot better next year. It's a bit of a worry because it doesn't s seem to come natural for him. I mean the little things like standing in the right position and using your body weight correctly etc... Those little things that make the top fullbacks so good.
He could be a good center half back but at the moment there is no one else to play fullback.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by woosha
Just something that all mates have been thinking about as watt has got no idea about playing Full back maybe he should go full forward and see how he goes.



Go Roos

Never been a fan of him at FB, but I realise he has worthwhile traits as another type of footballer.

I don't think we have anyone on our list, though, who can play FB apart from Brown and Watt.

Brown, along with Archer, is probably our most versatile player, and Watt has the physical traits to play FB as well as anyone.

Watt still lacks the presence and mongrel to do it though, and I don't think this sort of stuff can be taught... you've either got it or you don't, and he just don't. Would rather see him do a Wellman or Clement, running off half back or occasionally playing on a tall versatile type of forward (Cameron Bruce, Mark Stevens, Jade Rawlings, etc), the sort John Baird probably plays on now.

What the continued use of Watt, and the continued non-use of Brown has shown at full back, is that we have a definite deficiency there... not only in the 22, but on the senior list.

I realise players who can hold down a key position are rare, but if any are available, I think it would be remiss of the club not to have a look.

When FB is filled, that's when we can start having a look at where else Watt can play.

 

[mighty mick]

for those that see the port games is there someone developing as a possible full back, hows crowe i know he suffered a few setbacks this yr

 

[harrowfornrs]

Why not just put Logie at full-back and Watt at CHB ?
Shannon has certainly got some run in his legs and pace.
Turn him into your S.Wellman type .

 

[year of the roo]

Originally posted by mighty mick
for those that see the port games is there someone developing as a possible full back, hows crowe i know he suffered a few setbacks this yr

crowe doesnt have the size to play FB, but perry is possibly someone who could develop into a FB, but we are talking long term here, hes very young and raw.

 

[tashibatts]

Chris Lamb anyone?

Go Roos

 

[Briedis]

From the limited amount of times I have seen Crowe with Port he looks far short of getting a senior position and definately not at fullback.

Darky, not sure if you need mongrel to play at FB. Fletcher and Silvagni certainly don't have the mongrel factor and I rate both of them as FB's.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Briedis

Darky, not sure if you need mongrel to play at FB. Fletcher and Silvagni certainly don't have the mongrel factor and I rate both of them as FB's.

Maybe not, but those two players have, for almost their entire careers, played in teams that have made the finals and been in good sides all over the ground (esp. defence and midfield).

It may also interest you to know that on a personal level, i think they are two of the most glorified over-rated jumper pulling skill-less *******s of all time, who were just lucky to get away with a lot.

Fletcher's reputation went up a notch after an Ansett Cup game where he held Carey to 5 kicks. Doesn't matter that he was Carey's bitch for seven years and did not hold Wayne goal-less in any senior North vs Essendon game ever. Wayne was probably beaten only once (in 2000) in 10 years.

Silvagni had a good record against Carey too, but in the mid 90s the Carlton defence contained a fit Christou, Dean, McKay, Hanna, Sexton, Rice - a very experienced and tough unit as a whole. And SOS usually struggled against Longmire's pace on a lead, which no amount of jumper tugging could prevent. And did I mention he's only got one ball?

But having said that, guys like Fletcher and Silvagni were never afraid to grapple with opponents, wrestle, sling blokes to the ground just to hold your own feet, try a few dirty tricks - by no means soft... Watt's approach seems to be to start 5 metres behind (if he's near his man at all), make a late spoil in vain, and shrug his shoulders saying "well I tried, didn't I?"

Get angry FFS !!!!

I would fully support ignoring the precedents of player histories like Martin Pike, John McCarthy, Brad Plain etc.. all legendary drunks... just to see Shannon Watt show up at Colonial with a skinful under his belt throwing haymakers in the main game. I'll even provide the beer and <insert name of weird German herbal spirit>.

 

[Lidge]

Originally posted by woosha
Just something that all mates have been thinking about as watt has got no idea about playing Full back maybe he should go full forward and see how he goes.



Go Roos

The bench is another position the JYD hasn't tried. Seriously Watt has had some shocking 1st quarters this year but has recovered after the early damage has been done. If he is to be played - start him on the bench 1st 15-20 mins then bring him on.

 

[Karanicolas]

Re: Re: Shannon Watt

Originally posted by Lidge
The bench is another position the JYD hasn't tried. Seriously Watt has had some shocking 1st quarters this year but has recovered after the early damage has been done. If he is to be played - start him on the bench 1st 15-20 mins then bring him on.

As an alternative have Archer slap him around a few times in the room before they run on.

 

[Lidge]

Re: Re: Re: Shannon Watt

Originally posted by Karanicolas
As an alternative have Archer slap him around a few times in the room before they run on.

That'd be a classic. Blood rule in the rooms before they run out!

 

[football365]

Shannon Watt was drafted as CHF. It could be a possibility....
I'd be thinking though he hasnt really got the smarts yet, even though he has been in the system for 6 years. Really athletically, he would be hard to stop i'd imagine...

 

[Darky]

Re: Re: Shannon Watt

Originally posted by Lidge
The bench is another position the JYD hasn't tried. Seriously Watt has had some shocking 1st quarters this year but has recovered after the early damage has been done. If he is to be played - start him on the bench 1st 15-20 mins then bring him on.

Too right!

Continuing on from a little assignment I did with the help of Carlos a few weeks ago, Watt has had 58 goals kicked on him so far this year (as best as possible trying to take into account changes in match-up during a game).

I'd say (conservatively) 20-25 have been conceded in the first quarter, and probably 35-40 in the first half of games.

I suppose as devil's advocate, it could be argued that it's all part of the learning process, allowing a bit of latitude for the first quarter and learning how to counter each particular opponent.

 

[Wrath]

l think you guys are being a little harsh on Watt. l agree with Darky about not having any mongrel in him and unless it comes instinctly, you wont ever have it. But only the truely great fullbacks would stop a full forward with the way our midfield lets their opponents bring the ball come down to their forward line with such ease, especially early in the game. It is no coicindence that most of Watts goals kicked against early in the game were when the whole team started slowly.

This is his first full year in the spot, Laidley has been strong in his committment to Watt and left him there to learn the hard way, and l think in the long run it will pay handsome dividends.

Unfortunately we have to put up with some crap performances before we get the good stuff. l am sure most remember how long it took Micky to come good, only difference being that we were entertained by Micky belting almost every player that took a mark on him as a follow through. Great memories of Salmon ****ting himself when he played on Micky, almost every time Fish too a mark, Micky belted him around the ears and fell on him.

2005 is the year l think we will see Watt be at his best, which l think will coincide with us having a serious tilt at the Premiership.

Wrath

 

[Event Horizon]

Originally posted by Darky

Fletcher's reputation went up a notch after an Ansett Cup game where he held Carey to 5 kicks. Doesn't matter that he was Carey's bitch for seven years and did not hold Wayne goal-less in any senior North vs Essendon game ever.

Never mind being Carey' bitch...Fletcher was also Sav Rocca's bitch for years, while Sav was at Collingwood. That does say someting...