Past #36: Shannon Watt - drafted at #14 in '97 ND - 155 games - 0 Brownlow votes - original whipping boy

[Z_K]

Ahh the Watt discussion.

I think Shannon Watt is playing FB for two reasons, and they are the wrong ones. a) Physically, he fits the bill. Big body, super fast and good height. b) We don't have any other full time options.

He doesn't think like a FB. He is reactive, in a position that requires instinctive skill. I watch him closely, and he waits for a move from his opponent. A half quick forward with some suitable delivery will kill this approach. A quick step, a five metre lead and Watt is toast.

Mick was physically a perfect FB. BUt more importantly, the position and what is required to play it came naturally. He stood in front of his man, second guessing leads. He lead blokes into the pockets, especially Lloyd into the right pocket. That trick especially is the sign of a pure FB. Mick, even now, rarely get's lead up the middle. They might beat him to the ball, but 90% of the time it is in a spot he wants it to be. I get the feeling Watt is just playing it by ear. They lead, I will start behind, but I will catch 'em because I am super quick.

Watt is an amzing athlete, but he cannot compete on that attribute for too much longer. He needs a move to CHB. And I am not at all adverse to him picking up smaller player if it means he is in a position where physical ability can be more useful, and defensive know how is not the be all and end all.

 

[hurricane]

I'm hoping that some of this stuff can be learnt.

It isn't surprising that Watt plays the way he does, because at lower levels his athletic ability would have sufficed. At this level it is a great help, but he is going to have to adjust the way he plays.

Unfortunately there is no simple recipe... different approaches are required for different forwards. And it is going to take a while to learn to do it effectively.

I'm all for sticking with him at full back. It is a focussed position, and although CHB is probably easier, I don't think Watt has the footy nous to be truly creative there.

I think we'll see a significant improvement next year. He will go into the season knowing that he's taken on these blokes before (albeit with varying degrees of success) He'll also have a much better idea of what's expected of him.

It's been said before, but very few blokes are successful full backs first up. How long was Scarlett doing his apprenticeship before reaching the level he's at now?

If we don't see an improvement next year in the way he plays the position - an improvement, mind, not necessarily an overnight leap to superstardom - then maybe it is time to shift him. Hopefully we'll have a better alternative by then, too.

At the very worst, sticking with him for a while will mean that we end up with a tall defender who can be moved to FB if required.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy


Mick was physically a perfect FB. BUt more importantly, the position and what is required to play it came naturally. He stood in front of his man, second guessing leads. He lead blokes into the pockets, especially Lloyd into the right pocket. That trick especially is the sign of a pure FB. Mick, even now, rarely get's lead up the middle. They might beat him to the ball, but 90% of the time it is in a spot he wants it to be. I get the feeling Watt is just playing it by ear. They lead, I will start behind, but I will catch 'em because I am super quick.

Did you see Garry Lyon's article in the H-Sun last week? He did a piece on Mick's upcoming 300th game, and explained a few of the tricks Mick used when playing FB. Very interesting read.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,6837283%5E20121,00.html

My favourite Martyn
31 July 2003 Herald Sun

MICK Martyn is a dual premiership player, a two-time best-and-fairest winner with the Kangaroos, a Michael Tuck medallist and this week is set to play his 300th game.

That is some sort of record, and should be the basis on which we remember a wonderful football career.

The week leading up to your 300th game of football should be one of the most satisfying times of your career. For Mick, it probably still will be.

But the turbulent times at Carlton and his own form will cast somewhat of a shadow over proceedings at the MCG on Saturday when the Blues take on Essendon.

The question over whether he is worthy of a spot in the team, however distasteful that may seem on the eve of such an enormous milestone, is a legitimate one and it has the potential to detract from the occasion.

But I get the feeling, having played against Mick on many occasions, and watched him often in recent times, that any criticism that comes his way will be water off a duck's back.

He has been handling, confronting and confounding critics for most of his career and I doubt he will give it a second thought as he leads the Blues through the banner.

So, if he's happy, and his coach and long-time mentor Denis Pagan is happy to have him in the side, then surely it is not asking too much to put aside any prejudice that may exist about Mick's decision to play another year, and reflect on the qualities that made him one of the best defenders in the league for well over a decade.

You may not think of Mick Martyn as a craftsman, but that is exactly how I would describe him, having observed him at close quarters in many games.

The Kangaroos were a great side throughout my career at Melbourne. They had a couple of lean years, but they were generally sitting at the top of the table.

As I walked to the forward line before each game against the Roos, I knew I was going to be greeted by one of two players: Mick Martyn or Glenn Archer. What a choice. Like choosing to swim across a crocodile-infested river or outrun a hungry lion. Either way you knew that any kick or goal you managed that day was going to come at a price.

I think, on reflection, I preferred playing on "Arch". At least with Arch, he seemed willing to indulge himself in other aspects of the game, rather than focusing solely on my destruction. He was prepared to take a risk, back his own judgment every now and then, and occasionally give you a chance.

But there was a double-edged sword to all of that as well. If you did make the most of the little latitude he gave you, and jagged a couple of goals, he would take it personally and somewhere down the track you paid.

But with Mick, if you were his opponent, then you were stuck with him.

He had two ways of playing you. From the time you took up your position, he would thrust his arm into your chest and there it would stay until the siren sounded at the end of each quarter.

Even then he gave you the distinct impression he was going to follow you into your huddle, or up the race.

He is an immensely powerful man, and this is where he had the craft of defending down to a fine art. He would, almost subtly, or as subtly as Mick could, push you around the forward line into the area where you would pose the least threat.

He would nudge and bump you 5-10m towards the pocket while the ball was up the other end, and you would think he was just being a pain in the backside.

But when the ball was heading your way and you began your lead, all of a sudden you would realise there was no space in front of you, because Mick had positioned you in a direct line with all the traffic ahead of you at half-forward. There was method to his madness in everything he did.

The introduction of the big-screen scoreboard allowed Mick to introduce his second modus operandi. With the ball at the other end of the ground, he would leave your side at full-forward and go and stand 20m in front of you.

He would then turn his back on the play and watch the action on the big screen.

He would not turn around until the ball made its way out of the Kangas' forward line up on to the wing. He would then turn and face the action and slowly walk backwards toward you, without ever taking his eye off the ball.

It made life very difficult. If there was a turnover on our half-forward line, Mick would dash off down the other wing, with a 15m head-start on me, and would be often used for the change of direction.

Inevitably the runner would come out to me and give me a spray for not chasing my man.

I'm not sure what he thought when I got fed up and told him to tell the coach to get the big screen turned off and it wouldn't be a problem.

Mick's a character, that's for sure. He wasn't averse to having a chat while the ball was up the other end, although I didn't indulge him too often.

It wasn't usually my policy anyway, but to be honest he was mumbling half the time and I didn't know what he was saying.

But one thing that was clear was that his teammates enjoyed playing with him.

The Roos were, and still are, a tight-knit group of players and Mick was always in the middle of it all, whether you were doing battle with them on the field, running into them at a pub and having a few beers, or, as we did on the odd occasion, sharing the same destination on a footy trip.

He is always the first to come up, buy you a drink and enjoy a laugh.

So, well done, Micky. Enjoy your day, and the plaudits that come your way.

If you are guilty of anything, it is that you love the game of football so completely, and the camaraderie and mateship that goes with it, that you find it very difficult to walk away.

If that's your greatest crime, then all the credits you have run up over the years will take care of that, and everyone should be able to live with it. Enjoy.

 

[Melly017]

Time, time, time, time, time
all of this year, some of next then make a call.

Or as i say below find someone else names and who is going to take their spot in the side/List and don't say some bloke who hasn't yet played a game.

 

[danny rooboy]

Watt has played the whole year at FB and has done an adequate and necessary job - on most occasions. Although I do think he gets beaten a bit too often on one-on-one situations... however, he has looked good when he has run from the backline through the midfield a few times this year. Should he get an occasional role playing on the wing? or at HB? His pace is an asset which could be quite damaging. I'd like to see him run through the lines a bit more... Also, last week the Brown matchup on Pavlich wasnt ideal. Brown did ok in 2nd 3rd quarter but was thrashed otherwise. I wonder if Watt could have played on him? what do people think?

 

[dus]

I'd like to see Watt tried at CHB so we can see more of the run we know he has. IMO he has been ok this year at FB, and been made look a bit ordinary at times when the ball keeps comming in without pressure, and also made himself look ordinary when he is continually lead to the ball. Having said that he has also been very good at times and shown glimpses of been a long term FB.

A move to CHB, possibly on Rawlings this week, to free him up from the last line, and maby as a little reward for his year to date. Thompson on Colby (or Baird) at FF.

 

[pickettline]

i would like to submit an alternative.would he be worth a try at full forward? i believe that he would be very hard to match because of his pace . he seems to be a pretty good mark and quite a good kick.rather than have a lumbering type like sav he may be a longer term solution.


roos to win more in 2004

 

[Angus1]

Originally posted by pickettline
i would like to submit an alternative.would he be worth a try at full forward? i believe that he would be very hard to match because of his pace . he seems to be a pretty good mark and quite a good kick.rather than have a lumbering type like sav he may be a longer term solution.


roos to win more in 2004

I have thought about this myself and think that perhaps he doesn't have enough polish for fullforward but at this stage of the year with no finals for us then I'd like to see a few different things tried. I'm not impressed with Watt at all really. I'm not sure how he has remained on our list but at least Laidley has given him a full year rather then the Pagan on the ground for 5 minutes then off again approach.
I'd like to see him played somewhere else just to see if he can actually play this game. Wouldn't mind seeing Baird used up forward as well just to try something different.
Time to try something different Deano and see who can play.

 

[KangaFett]

The full back apprentership is tuff....it takes 50+ games before they become any good....I reckon he has done pretty well and seems to learn from his mistakes.

Even Deni$ a few weeks ago when Mick played 300 said that was one of the reasons they picked Mick....young guys get thrashed in the back line, it takes weeks for them to get over it, where the older guys are okay next week - no mental scars.

Give him time....he will prove all the slaggers wrong!

 

[Avenger]

To me he doesn't have the body strength to play a key position.
He has done some nice things up the ground.Maybe HFF,HBF, wing.
Although he is fast he is nearly always behind any player leading to the ball.I think its a anticipation thing.

 

[mighty mick]

needs to work on the strengh aspect of his game but definitely has the speed to go with most

 

[Lidge]

Watt will be a better player for the experience he's gained this year - even though he's responsible for a few extra grey hairs on my scalp and causing some 'sailor's language' to be screamed in his direction during the year.

Not entirely convinced FB is the best spot for him though. I reckon his pace could be put to better use from CHB - as he has looked good when further away from the goal square and more comfortable during the season on the occasions he's had a run up the ground.

But even if he was to take on that role - we still need another key backman. If Hale comes on next year as we hope - perhaps Brown could drop back to the goal square.

 

[DaRock]

If, like me, you were a little frustrated with watching Shannon stand on the mark gazing at yet another ball pass over his head through the big sticks perhaps you could assess my idea.

How about using Leigh Brown at full back and switching Shannon Watt to a wing. He's quick enough, can take a mark and would be hard to match up with.

Shannon could be instructed to push forward if he gets a midget opponent. If he gets a gun runner he could tag.

Sure, he needs a top pre-season (ala Matthew Pavlich did) based on power endurance running but I can imagaine it working.

Leigh Brown on the other hand has been superb in the latter part of the year but never settled into a position. I believe he could play fullback better than Shannon for one strong reason - he has a lot of what Shannon lacks - MONGREL. All the good full backs have it.

 

[benno87]

And sacrafice Leigh Browns run and ability to play 5 positions in one game?

 

[kangaroo7]

I agree with this. I think Watt would do much better in another position. He is clearly not a full-back. The only problem is finding some one who is.

 

[Nandrolone Stam]

Watt???

Shannon's one of the quickest blokes at the club if memory serves. Add the experience of this season and a solid pre-season with the weights and he'll still be the best option down back.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

JYD loves watt at fullback tho, probly not much chance of getting him moved. he didn't do a bad job there anyway, got stitched up by fevola earlier in the year but didn't really get thrashed by lloyd or neitz

 

[speedy]

Watt is our best option for full back, even though I think he would make a better forward.
Dont agree that a FB must have mongrel either. Fletcher is as p'ss weak as they come but he still gets it done on the last line of defence.
Watt needs to work on his spoiling technique, thats his main problem.

 

[year of the roo]

i cant see why the anvil wouldnt be able to fill that role outlined for watt any better then watt himself. i say keep watt at FB and work on brown as a tall midfielder come defender, who can push forward.

 

[DaRock]

Does anyone honestly think Leigh Brown would allow a forward to take a contested mark in front of him without wearing some pressure in the form of a smack to the back of the head?

If the answer is yes, you are kidding yourself !

The Anvil is nothing like Shannon Watt.

 

[Darky]

Laidley decided at the start of the year that Watt was the full back. I have no problem with that.

What I had a problem with, is Laidley not moving watt when he was getting flogged.

Fevola may very well be a hard opponent to match up on, but to kick 6 in the first half and finish with 8, basically all on the same opponent... a move should be made. And ultimately they were soft goals with no physical pressure.

Stick by your man and turn him into a FB if need be, but we don't need games where a bloke kicks a lazy 8 and we lose by nine points, because the coach didn't want make a change.

 

[KangaFett]

I wish they would play Leigh Brown in fewer positions.

I think he has the ability to dominate a line which to me would seem more useful then having him plug holes all day.

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by KangaFett
I wish they would play Leigh Brown in fewer positions.

I think he has the ability to dominate a line which to me would seem more useful then having him plug holes all day.

Laidley did say that he ideally wanted to play Brown at CHB. There`s a fair chance that he`ll try and settle him there next year injuries permitting.

 

[danny rooboy]

I think i read or heard some stat about Watt having the most spoils for us this season? This would be a good signifier of his quality as a backman. As his first full season as a key defender he has done ok, but with a lot of room for improvement still. Im sure he looks at those games where goals were scored against him and studies what he did wrong - in time he will be a better FB or CHB who can also provide a bit of run out of defence.

Brown has shown he can be a good utility type player - but is maybe better plugging a hole in defence rather than being a key position. Im also worried that Brown concedes too many silly free kicks which would be costly in defence.

 

[Moti]

Brown is not athletic enough to play on the better forwards week in week out. Shannon isn't perfect, but he has all the tools, he just needs to read the manual.