3rd ODI; Australia V India @ the MCG.

[glenferry23]

Yes, believe it or not, in odi cricket I would pick a player who hits a century every five games - despite having less overs to face than Gilchrist - and who’s ability to get his team home in run chases is absolutely unparalleled, over another player who averages 25 less.

He’s hit two and a half times as many centuries as Gilchrist.... in 80 less games.

Hell, Gilchrist isn’t even the first left handed opener id pick in an all time ODI side. I’d pick Jayasuriya before him. He changed the way the entire game was played, and took the small matter of 350 wickets.

Gilchrist seems an odd choice if you were to try and argue that Kohli isn’t the best of all time.

Richards, perhaps Garner who’s bowling numbers stick out like dogs balls, maybe Dhoni if you were to factor in his finishing and his keeping, and Amla who averages 50 and has 27 centuries from 169 matches.

I mean seriously - Gilchrist isn’t even (statistically at least) the best left-handed opening batsman wicketkeeper in odi cricket.
That title belongs to quinton De Kock.

In 190 less matches than Gilchrist he’s hit 13 centuries (three less than Gilchrist). His average is 10 higher, his strike rate is the same. And he’s only 26. And he plays half his games on the most new ball friendly decks in the world.

Pick your battles a bit better mate.

This really is amazing reading, I just can’t look away. The lengths he’s gone to in order to discredit the King is quite impressive actually, and now stuck in such a hole he can’t get out of.

Outstanding stuff

 

[Wedge McManus]

I’m from the middle of NSW, I primarily support West Indies

My relatives have told me they used to be the best team in the world for decades. I hope they can sort their administration and priorities out and get back to the top mate

 

[Wedge McManus]

These guys are paid to play the best cricket for Australia they can - not to make sure the audience gets the 'feels'.

Multi-tasking in this way when playing international sport should be banned.

Do we the audience even really need to hear some forced uncomfortable cringe worthy interview consisting of Howie trying to ascertain from some bloke on the field, who is acting polite but really just wants to get outta there, if the wicket is indeed "doing a bit"....

 

[Wedge McManus]

Heres a good stat - since 2016, Kohli has been on a bit of a run - averaging 91.

Thats just ******* absurd.

Must be due for a few low ones then lmao.

 

[Gough]

My relatives have told me they used to be the best team in the world for decades. I hope they can sort their administration and priorities out and get back to the top mate

Ask any cricket fan who was around about those great Windies sides of the 80s and their eyes glaze over. Until our own dominance in the 90s and 00s it was between them and the 48 Ashes team as the greatest ever.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Ask any cricket fan who was around about those great Windies sides of the 80s and their eyes glaze over. Until our own dominance in the 90s and 00s it was between them and the 48 Ashes team as the greatest ever.

Well then I'm gutted I never got to see them play. Being told how good they were and actually witnessing it are yards apart. Did you see their fast bowlers? What were they like?

 

[Gough]

Well then I'm gutted I never got to see them play. Being told how good they were and actually witnessing it are yards apart. Did you see their fast bowlers? What were they like?

Lethal, and they made it look so effortless too. Like batsman in our golden era they kept producing them as well, guys like Wayne Daniel and Sylvester Clarke didn't play nearly as many Tests that their ability suggested they should.

 

[Gough]

Very naughty boys when it came to overrates though.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Lethal, and they made it look so effortless too. Like batsman in our golden era they kept producing them as well, guys like Wayne Daniel and Sylvester Clarke didn't play nearly as many Tests that their ability suggested they should.

Nice. What on earth happened to them I wonder? Their test team has been atrocious for 20 years

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Interesting comment from Nathan Lyon last night when asked if the current Indian team were the best Test side he'd played. He said it wasn't even the best Indian team he'd played against. I tend to agree with him, and another indicator of the slipping standard of Test cricket.

 

[Mitchell54]

Interesting comment from Nathan Lyon last night when asked if the current Indian team were the best Test side he'd played. He said it wasn't even the best Indian team he'd played against. I tend to agree with him, and another indicator of the slipping standard of Test cricket.

Everyone is slamming the way we played and if we were only 31 runs away from beating the best Indian side Gazza has played then were not too bad.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nice. What on earth happened to them I wonder? Their test team has been atrocious for 20 years

Pitches got slowed, spin took over, their board got more and more disfunctional and interest from the public wained.

Their facilities are light years behind everyone else’s as well, in terms of academies, coaching programs etc.

They have been better of late. 7 test wins in the last 18 matches or something like that, a vast improvement on the few years prior

 

[PhatBoy]

Everyone is slamming the way we played and if we were only 31 runs away from beating the best Indian side Gazza has played then were not too bad.

India were a dry January day away from winning 3-1, would be an equally realistic way to look at it

 

[Wedge McManus]

Pitches got slowed, spin took over, their board got more and more disfunctional and interest from the public wained.

Their facilities are light years behind everyone else’s as well, in terms of academies, coaching programs etc.

They have been better of late. 7 test wins in the last 18 matches or something like that, a vast improvement on the few years prior

Could've saved that test against Pakistan last year too if Shannon Gabriel didnt have an acid flashback with seven balls to see out and nick off throwing his hands at a wide one

 

[PhatBoy]

Could've saved that test against Pakistan last year too if Shannon Gabriel didnt have an acid flashback with seven balls to see out and nick off throwing his hands at a wide one

Please don’t ever mention this again

 

[to1994]

Kohli destroyed a lot of that this year.
His century (150) against Rabada, Philander, Morkel and Maharaj at SuperSport park was a masterclass in a series absolutely dominated by the ball.
His two centuries and a 90 in England against Broad, Anderson, Curran and Stokes were next level good as well. And people seem to have already forgotten how difficult batting was in Perth a few weeks ago.
He’s not at Dravidian levels of ‘Indian overseas’ achievement yet but he’s got nothing left to prove. He’s hit 10 centuries in Australia, england, SA and NZ.

Edit: last year

I know you can only score against what you're dished up with but I feel like you're exaggerating England's bowling. England were decent, Anderson is always great there but the other 3 are hardly world beaters, Broad in the past was but not anymore. Maybe Perth was a tricky wicket but it's pretty much the only tricky wicket he's faced against Australia on 3 tours here. If you go back even as early as the 90s and you look at England's batsman, they get laughed at but look who they actually played. Almost all of their series were against quality attacks who got enough exposure to perform that well at home or away, no wonder Atherton only averaged 37. Nowadays half your Tests are on roads against substandard attacks.

Again this isn't trying to undermine Kohli, he's clearly great, just comparing eras and there's no doubt the modern era isn't as much of a Test as it used to be.

 

[PhatBoy]

I know you can only score against what you're dished up with but I feel like you're exaggerating England's bowling. England were decent, Anderson is always great there but the other 3 are hardly world beaters, Broad in the past was but not anymore. Maybe Perth was a tricky wicket but it's pretty much the only tricky wicket he's faced against Australia on 3 tours here. If you go back even as early as the 90s and you look at England's batsman, they get laughed at but look who they actually played. Almost all of their series were against quality attacks who got enough exposure to perform that well at home or away, no wonder Atherton only averaged 37. Nowadays half your Tests are on roads against substandard attacks.

Again this isn't trying to undermine Kohli, he's clearly great, just comparing eras and there's no doubt the modern era isn't as much of a Test as it used to be.

since the Ashes, Broad has taken 34 wickets at 24.
Anderson - even including the Ashes - has taken 58 at 22
Curran has 13 at 23 in the home season
Stokes 17 at 28 in the same period


While pitches are garbage by and large, the last year was the lowest for batting averages in something like 40 years.
England boasts an attack with 3 quicks averaging in the 20s. South Africa at any given moment can field 5 of them depending on where they bat philander. And that doesn’t include Maharaj. Australia has 3 and a good spinner. New Zealand have 3 quicks averaging below 30. Pakistan has the most unsettled line up in the world but have two bowlers who’ve broken or almost broken ‘fastest to’ landmarks. India’s improvement with the ball is well documented. Even the West Indies now boast 3 fast bowlers in the same attack who average below 30.

If you made runs in 2018, you earned them.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Well then I'm gutted I never got to see them play. Being told how good they were and actually witnessing it are yards apart. Did you see their fast bowlers? What were they like?

The West Indies used to be a group of talented players totally devoid of professionalism, as shown in their 1-5 defeat in Australia 1975-76. The advent of World Series Cricket changed all that. All of sudden, the players were earning good money, and under pressure to earn that money. Packer demanded they become fitter and more professional in their approach and appointed professional trainers to ensure this happened.

The fall out of World Series Cricket saw the West Indies emerge as the dominant cricket team in the world. They had a string of quick bowlers, but it was more than that. The fast bowlers themselves all had varying skills, no two bowlers were alike. On top of that, there were no over limits so Clive Lloyd was smart enough to keep his bowlers fresh by bowling 2 of them for 6 over each, then rotating another 2 bowlers to bowl 6 each. They were only bowling around 70 overs in a day, but batting teams were up against lethal quick bowling all day, no respite. They also upped the ante in the field with spectacular catching and general fielding.

The bowling started off with Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft, and later came Marshall, Walsh, etc. They were never short of 4 quality quick men.

Because of the skill of their bowlers, they could usually bowl a team out cheaply then turn to a talented batting contingent to make enough runs. They had Greenidge and Haynes opening after Fredericks retired, Viv Richards at 3, then a host of others such as Kallicharran, Richardson, Gomes, Lloyd, Rowe, etc. They never needed scores of 500+ to win a Test because their bowlers and back up fielding was so good. There has always been a theory that Viv Richards would have averaged more in Test cricket but tended to throw his innings away chasing quick runs for victory.

Then they had Dujon behind the stumps who was a very good batsman. They always give Rodney Marsh the credit for making the batsman/keeper role popular, but Dujon took it to another level. Not the greatest glove man, but whenever there was a nick, Dujon would take spectacular catches, and with the bat make 100s if needed. Deryck Murray was a very capable keeper before him.

A very good team whose only Achilles heel was quality spin bowling. Fortunately for them, there were none around through their reign of terror.

 

[Gough]

A measure of how deep their fast bowling stocks ran in the early 80s was the length of time it took Malcolm Marshall to establish himself properly in the side.

 

[PhatBoy]

A measure of how deep their fast bowling stocks ran in the early 80s was the length of time it took Malcolm Marshall to establish himself properly in the side.

Franklyn Stephenson never playing a test was another

 

[Woody15]

It was a shame Ian Bishop broke down. He could have been right up there with the best of the West Indians.

 

[Wedge McManus]

It was a shame Ian Bishop broke down. He could have been right up there with the best of the West Indians.

Was Winston Benjamin any good?

 

[Gough]

Franklyn Stephenson never playing a test was another

He went with Lawrence Rowe's mob to South Africa.

 

[HLM*]

Was Winston Benjamin any good?

There’s this wonderful thing called YouTube where the answer to your question is one click away.

 

[Woody15]

Was Winston Benjamin any good?

Dont really remember a lot of him.

Patrick Patterson was one of my favourites.

Tony Gray was another good West Indian who could have played more.