Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: Here we go again!

[Gethelred]

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USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Blue1980]

What rumours? I'm a little intrigued. I hope they don't stem from Qanon.

I’m assuming Tucker Carlson

 

[QuietB]

I don’t think he thinks it will be better with Trump, but the Dems should be called out.

Biden and his red lines are a disgrace

 

[Blue1980]

Hmmm decent counterpoint...however...lots of his supporters are also not working 2 jobs and well off and should be more inclined to use morals as criteria to not vote or support him.

I think you’d be surprised how many people literally know nothing about any of the charges and various things he has said and done.

 

[zumahawk]

nah, but they're rubbish rumors. I wont post them as theyre not going to benifit anything to this thread.
HIs life.

You brought up these 'rubbish rumours'.

Trump's aren't just rumours however. He told the world what he thinks he can get away with on Access Hollywood.

 

[QuietB]

I think you’d be surprised how many people literally know nothing about any of the charges and various things he has said and done.

And be astounded at how easily people will dismiss what they do know.

 

[zumahawk]

Judging by the polling results, and the improved results for Republicans pretty much everywhere, those things matter and take precedence over whether late night comics start crying because a result didn't go their way.

Even worse than 2016, which was bad enough, is how far out of touch the Democrat party. They're in a totally different world to now a clear majority of the country. They won't learn from it either.

Just 4 years ago it was the complete opposite with the GOP reflecting on defeat. Things change and will again.

 

[IlovethePies]

Judging by the polling results, and the improved results for Republicans pretty much everywhere, those things matter and take precedence over whether late night comics start crying because a result didn't go their way.

Even worse than 2016, which was bad enough, is how far out of touch the Democrat party. They're in a totally different world to now a clear majority of the country. They won't learn from it either.

They are organically incapable of learning from it, because they are just as much a party of the capitalist oligarchy as the Republicans, just a different version of it.

The Democrats are a party of Wall St and of the CIA.

Already, Harris and Biden are on their knees to Trump, declaring that they will loyally facilitate "the peaceful transfer of power" to a fascist.

This despite the fact that it was Trump who 4 years earlier was the one who threatened any such transfer of power by organising an attempted coup d'etat.

The total grovelling of the Democrats is being reflected in the msm, where the concept of a Trump dictatorship is gradually assuming a form of acceptability.

This is because the msm, and the Democrats are all recognising that the US capitalist class is now reconciling itself to the perspective of ruling through a fascist president and a military dictatorship. And the msm along with the Democrats are just as aligned as Trump on one basic issue: the defence of capitalism.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

So murder, rape, incest wouldn't matter? Bit of a silly question there however of course character matters.

This is the thing.

The American people looked into the eyes of the democrats and said… you know what…Trumps far from perfect… but it’s all on the table, out in the open and despite his strident denial, clear for everyone to see.

When they look into the establishment democrats they have no idea what to expect, they see/hear the superficial niceties, but largely heard them fighting issues that weren’t a priority for them. On top of this, they don’t trust who they are.

So they chose the devil they knew.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

End of the day you just want those in charge to do good things which benefit the majority of people.

Which they didn’t trust the democrat establishment would do.

 

[Partridge]

Hmmm decent counterpoint...however...lots of his supporters are also not working 2 jobs and well off and should be more inclined to use morals as criteria to not vote or support him.

If anyone seriously judges a politician by what morals they apparently possess, that's astonishingly naive.

 

[zumahawk]

They are organically incapable of learning from it, because they are just as much a party of the capitalist oligarchy as the Republicans, just a different version of it.

The Democrats are a party of Wall St and of the CIA.

Already, Harris and Biden are on their knees to Trump, declaring that they will loyally facilitate "the peaceful transfer of power" to a fascist.

This despite the fact that it was Trump who 4 years earlier was the one who threatened any such transfer of power by organising an attempted coup d'etat.

The total grovelling of the Democrats is being reflected in the msm, where the concept of a Trump dictatorship is gradually assuming a form of acceptability.

This is because the msm, and the Democrats are all recognising that the US capitalist class is now reconciling itself to the perspective of ruling through a fascist president and a military dictatorship. And the msm along with the Democrats are just as aligned as Trump on one basic issue: the defence of capitalism.

Harris and Biden did the right thing to issue gracious statements. Either way they would have been critised. What was the alternative? Storm the capital? I mean in 4 years he's never coming back. They need to bide their time and be better. History has had dozens and dozens of villians- Trump is just the latest.

 

[Episode IV]

Joe Rogan has said Obama is the greatest president of his lifetime.

Joe Rogan said so huh. Well there's something to hang your hat on.

Alright, then, let's break that down. Joe Rogan is 57. If we take the first 17 as being "formative", that leaves us with Obama being the best President of the last 40 years, give or take, in Joe Rogan's opinion.

So that list includes, in order, Reagan, Bush Snr, Clinton, Bush Jnr, Obama, Trump, Biden.

The only other name I'd consider a good candidate for "Best President" in that timeframe might be Clinton.

Pretty low bar, when you think about it.

 

[Partridge]

The total grovelling of the Democrats is being reflected in the msm, where the concept of a Trump dictatorship is gradually assuming a form of acceptability.

This is because the msm, and the Democrats are all recognising that the US capitalist class is now reconciling itself to the perspective of ruling through a fascist president and a military dictatorship. And the msm along with the Democrats are just as aligned as Trump on one basic issue: the defence of capitalism.

Yeah doubt very much that's going to happen. All these things were predicted the first time and it didn't happen. Just because people hate him and scream it 100 times doesn't mean it's going to come true. Maybe, but I'd prefer to wait and see.

 

[zumahawk]

If anyone seriously judges a politician by what morals they apparently possess, that's astonishingly naive.

Seriously? Character does matter surely or it's anarchy. Does anything cross a line character wise for you for politicians?

 

[IlovethePies]

Hmmm decent counterpoint...however...lots of his supporters are also not working 2 jobs and well off and should be more inclined to use morals as criteria to not vote or support him.

Yes, Trump has the support of decent sections of the capitalist oligarchy that have showered his campaign with funds (Musk, Uhleins, Timothy Mellon, Miriam Adelson, Betsy Devos, to name a few).

But the vast majority of the population who voted for Trump come from those layers in the population that feel themselves to be struggling economocially to varying degrees of severity.

 

[Vassp]

You brought up these 'rubbish rumours'.

Trump's aren't just rumours however. He told the world what he thinks he can get away with on Access Hollywood.

locker room talk, i'm pretty sure not many in here have ever been in a position of great influence and power, boy talk and bragg is part of the deal, thats not my scene as I grew out of that pretty quick, but some take longer than others. Trump would be one of those. again his personality would grate on me. doenst mean he is a bad president though.

 

[Episode IV]

So they chose the devil they knew.

Marianne Willamson:
"People prefer false hope to no hope at all."

 

[IlovethePies]

Harris and Biden did the right thing to issue gracious statements. Either way they would have been critised. What was the alternative? Storm the capital? I mean in 4 years he's never coming back. They need to bide their time and be better. History has had dozens and dozens of villians- Trump is just the latest.

Harrison and Biden never do the "right" thing.
They only do what is in the interests of the capitalist elite.

 

[zumahawk]

locker room talk, i'm pretty sure not many in here have ever been in a position of great influence and power, boy talk and bragg is part of the deal, thats not my scene as I grew out of that pretty quick, but some take longer than others. Trump would be one of those. again his personality would grate on me. doenst mean he is a bad president though.

Word salad ha!. Are you trying to say a far right loony mentioned something that's probably false about Obama on the internet at some stage?

 

[zumahawk]

Harrison and Biden never do the "right" thing.
They only do what is in the interests of the capitalist elite.

Disagree. What was the right thing for them to do?

 

[IlovethePies]

Yeah doubt very much that's going to happen. All these things were predicted the first time and it didn't happen. Just because people hate him and scream it 100 times doesn't mean it's going to come true. Maybe, but I'd prefer to wait and see.

Fair enough.
But he has publicly declared his intentions on numerous occasions already.

And he has learned from past mistakes.

And...finally, the crisis of US capitalism has become even more intense than 2016-2020.

 

[Partridge]

Seriously? Character does matter surely or it's anarchy. Does anything cross a line character wise for you for politicians?

I've read too much history. I always expect the worse from people. Politicians are there to get re-elected, or eke out a career and/or get rich. The system is not set up for them to be noble and honest people. They're all dishonest and all liars when it suits them. Pretending one side is holy and virtuous and only the other side is evil is as wrong as it is hilarious.

The point is, the population of the US don't seem to care about perceived character nearly as much as Hollywood and the media think they should. To them, everything is about feelings. Compassion, empathy, we care (they really don't of course). TV chat show hosts - who are all millionaires - pretending they're concerned about the plight of the working class from high atop their mansions in LA or San Francisco. An awful lot of people can see through their bullshit now, realise they're every bit as hypocritical, far more censorious, and they've overwhelmingly rejected their platitudes and what they stand for.

 

[IlovethePies]

Disagree. What was the right thing for them to do?

Glad you asked this question. Here is a quote from the article I linked earlier (and have linked again below) which answers this very question:


"It would have been entirely in order for Biden to declare that as long as he remains president, for the next 70 days, Trump is on political probation, and that the “peaceful transfer of power” requires guarantees of the peaceful and democratic exercise of power after January 20. This would include Trump making public who he will nominate as his principal cabinet officers, particularly those in charge of the military-intelligence apparatus.

In the meantime, Biden would be entitled as president to consult with Democratic governors and members of Congress on ways to protect the rights of the majority of Americans who did not vote for Trump, including the 70 million who voted for Harris, the tens of millions who refused to vote for either candidate, and the many millions whose anger and frustration was exploited by Trump’s right-wing populist demagogy, but have no desire to install a dictator-president. Instead, Biden gives Trump carte blanche.

In his posture and actions, Biden resembles an outgoing Democratic president of more than 150 years ago, James Buchanan, usually ranked by historians—until Trump—as the worst president in American history. After the victory of Abraham Lincoln over Buchanan in the 1860 election, the pro-slavery Democrat effectively gave a green light to the gathering Confederate insurrection. He took no action to protect federal military installations and stockpiles in the South, allowing the secessionists to seize them and gain an initial military advantage."

Democrats grovel before Trump

President Biden and Vice President Harris have pledged full cooperation with the incoming fascist president-elect, while issuing no warning to the American people of the dangers of mass repression and rule by force.

www.wsws.org

 

[zumahawk]

I've read too much history. I always expect the worse from people. Politicians are there to get re-elected, or eke out a career and/or get rich. The system is not set up for them to be noble and honest people. They're all dishonest and all liars when it suits them. Pretending one side is holy and virtuous and only the other side is evil is as wrong as it is hilarious.

The point is, the population of the US don't seem to care about perceived character nearly as much as Hollywood and the media think they should. To them, everything is about feelings. Compassion, empathy, we care (they really don't of course). TV chat show hosts - who are all millionaires - pretending they're concerned about the plight of the working class from high atop their mansions in LA or San Francisco. An awful lot of people can see through their bullshit now, realise they're every bit as hypocritical, far more censorious, and they've overwhelmingly rejected their platitudes and what they stand for.

Grandiose and ridiculous statements here. It's not perceived character, it's his character. He revels in this awfulness. He plays off it. Trump is every bit as hypocritical as them all

A large part (50%ish) care a great deal about his character.

 

[IlovethePies]

I've read too much history. I always expect the worse from people. Politicians are there to get re-elected, or eke out a career and/or get rich. The system is not set up for them to be noble and honest people. They're all dishonest and all liars when it suits them. Pretending one side is holy and virtuous and only the other side is evil is as wrong as it is hilarious.

The point is, the population of the US don't seem to care about perceived character nearly as much as Hollywood and the media think they should. To them, everything is about feelings. Compassion, empathy, we care (they really don't of course). TV chat show hosts - who are all millionaires - pretending they're concerned about the plight of the working class from high atop their mansions in LA or San Francisco. An awful lot of people can see through their bullshit now, realise they're every bit as hypocritical, far more censorious, and they've overwhelmingly rejected their platitudes and what they stand for.

Yes, the disgusting identity politics of the Democrats (gender, race, sexual orientation) are repulsive to those whose families are threatened with destitution due to inflation and the suppression of wages.