Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: Here we go again!

[Gethelred]

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Just a reminder, even if it hasn't come up for a few pages and y'all should know this stuff by now:

This thread is not about Covid, lockdowns, or vaccines. It is about Donald Trump. While Trump was in office during the pandemic and his response to Covid is relevant, there are pertinent threads for you to post your opinions on those things in.

It might also do with reminding a few that when you post on the SRP, you are responsible for backing up/verifying your claims to fact. What this means is that you will be asked time to time to support your claims with evidence, to ensure that this forum is as free of misinfomation as we can make it.

Do not post conspiracy theories on this forum. We have an entire other forum for that.

Thanks all.

As always, please submit ideas for the thread title by tagging Gethelred! We're looking for something new to match the new thread!

USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Xtreme]

2 days without incident.

Trump rocks

 

[Blue1980]

The divisions of society are based on class, and nothing else.

The poltics of gender, sexual orientation and race all appeal to the upper middle class, who lead a very comfortable material existence and do not have to worry about matters of social equality.

In fact, they are hostile to social equality, because they would view a struggle for social equality as dangerous to their highly significant ownership of wealth and privileges.

Therefore, it is impossible to mobilise opposition to capitalism on the basis of identity politics, which is precisely the reason why the Democrats have adopted it.

They use it, in much the same manner as the ALP/Greens here in Australia use it to promote a fake "left" veneer.

The only way that the democratic rights of all people, regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation, can be guaranteed, is through an international socialist movement based on the class interests of the international working class.

In other words, the struggle to defend social rights (the right to quality public education, the right to quality public health, the right to decent accommodation ...) is the only way to fight for democratic rights (such as the right to pursue your own chosen sexual orientation, cultural differences, etc).

Surely allowing gay marriage, and protections for marginalised groups aren’t bad things?

Do you think Dems/ALP/greens just promote this stuff as a way of pissing off the white working class to keep everyone pitted against each other?

I think that’s a stretch, we can give rights and protections to marginalised groups and look to have a working class led movement, I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

The dems barely leant into that stuff in the election campaign at all btw.

 

[sdfc]

Surely allowing gay marriage, and protections for marginalised groups aren’t bad things?

Do you think Dems/ALP/greens just promote this stuff as a way of pissing off the white working class to keep everyone pitted against each other?

I think that’s a stretch, we can give rights and protections to marginalised groups and look to have a working class led movement, I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

The dems barely leant into that stuff in the election campaign at all btw.

Ilikepotatoes might be a Leninist who doesn't realise that there is no American left but he's right. Identity politics might be big on social media but it's a fringe issue which I'm not sure is all that popular anyway.

 

[KnobHead]

Thing is it IS about feelings and vibes, it’s just very different to those from the Hollywood elite and coastal elites.

I’d argue majority of voters don’t know shit about policy and vote mainly on vibes, that’s the case for everyone. I’ve said many times a large percentage of people wouldn’t even know what left or right wing even mean.

You had people voting for trump then dem governors and senators all over the place, as well as pro trump but pro choice as well. We like to think and create narratives about one election result being ideological to the left/right when it isn’t really that at all.

For vast majority of voters it’s about which party makes life more affordable for them. That simple. Problem is, in a global economy a country, even as powerful as America, can only do so much to minimise things like high global inflation (which is coming down). But saying to the average voter that the economy is now doing well compared to other global economies don’t mean s*(t if the price of eggs and bread remains unaffordable.

Trump lost in 2020 in the midst of covid, Harris lost in 2024 because many Americans have an affordability problem. Incumbent governments around the world have been losing elections since the pandemic. If Americans still have an affordability problem in 2028 then likely Dems get back in.

All these other issues, like abortion, immigration (which gets tied to economics anyway), are side issues.

Do think Dems have a communication issue, thought Harris was given a s()t sandwich and did a great job, but she didn’t communicate clearly like Obama and Clinton did, or even Trump for that matter. She seemed a little distant and sadly, don’t think Americans were ready for a female President. Be interesting to see if Shapiro runs in 2028 - he’s an excellent communicator. Whoever takes charge of the Dems, they’ll probably need to ensure the party stops seeing non-Dem voters as “stupid” and come to some reckoning on identity politics, it plays a big part in their policy approach and sometimes seems to be more important to Dems than the economy.

Will be an interesting 12 months ahead, if Trump goes ahead with his tariffs or just makes minimal changes and just lets the recent global downturn in inflation take impact in America. But reckon he’ll push with his tariffs plan, he’s already said they’ll push ahead with deportations.




On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Satan]

Another assassination attempt, wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/11/08/trump-iran-arrested-assassination-attempt/

 

[zumahawk]

Be good if they did more in their 4 years to sure up democratic institutions so no one can try what trump did again.

As I said in my mind Jan 6 would be instantly disqualifying for anyone to run for any public office ever and probably would have landed anyone else in jail. I feel I am being gaslit as some kind of cringe lib to even bring that up.

If democracy doesn’t matter anymore, may as well fight fire with fire. That won’t come from a Democratic Party, it will have to be a new movement.

Trump of course should have been instantly qualified after Jan 6th. Anyone else would have been.

The Democrats underated how sick and evil Trump is. To continue to lie about an election result for 4 years is sick. Another instantly disqualifying issue for anyone else.

 

[zumahawk]

2 days without incident.

Trump rocks

2 days for Trump without incident, gaffe or scandal must be a record.

 

[zumahawk]

For vast majority of voters it’s about which party makes life more affordable for them. That simple. Problem is, in a global economy a country, even as powerful as America, can only do so much to minimise things like high global inflation (which is coming down). But saying to the average voter that the economy is now doing well compared to other global economies don’t mean s*(t if the price of eggs and bread remains unaffordable.

Trump lost in 2020 in the midst of covid, Harris lost in 2024 because many Americans have an affordability problem. Incumbent governments around the world have been losing elections since the pandemic. If Americans still have an affordability problem in 2028 then likely Dems get back in.

All these other issues, like abortion, immigration (which gets tied to economics anyway), are side issues.

Do think Dems have a communication issue, thought Harris was given a s()t sandwich and did a great job, but she didn’t communicate clearly like Obama and Clinton did, or even Trump for that matter. She seemed a little distant and sadly, don’t think Americans were ready for a female President. Be interesting to see if Shapiro runs in 2028 - he’s an excellent communicator. Whoever takes charge of the Dems, they’ll probably need to ensure the party stops seeing non-Dem voters as “stupid” and come to some reckoning on identity politics, it plays a big part in their policy approach and sometimes seems to be more important to Dems than the economy.

Will be an interesting 12 months ahead, if Trump goes ahead with his tariffs or just makes minimal changes and just lets the recent global downturn in inflation take impact in America. But reckon he’ll push with his tariffs plan, he’s already said they’ll push ahead with deportations.




On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

However Trump won't make life more affordable for them.

 

[Xtreme]

2 days for Trump without incident, gaffe or scandal must be a record.

Jealousy is a curse

 

[zumahawk]

Disgusting America. Racist to the core. I hope the perpetrators are caught and jailed.

 

[Gough]

Disgusting America. Racist to the core. I hope the perpetrators are caught and jailed.

View attachment 2161264

This is what America wants.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Another assassination attempt, wow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/11/08/trump-iran-arrested-assassination-attempt/

It's a CIA plot for Americans to bomb Iran to protect thier buddies in isreal.
What a great set up.

 

[Satan]

Firms trying to get extra stock before Trump comes in and chinese new year

With Trump Tariffs Looming, Businesses Try to ‘Run From a Moving Target’

Companies are filling their warehouses or looking into moving factories as they weigh President-elect Donald J. Trump’s threats to impose tariffs on foreign goods.

www.nytimes.com

Trying to source elsewhere so quickly , forget about it

 

[Gough]

Firms trying to get extra stock before Trump comes in and chinese new year

With Trump Tariffs Looming, Businesses Try to ‘Run From a Moving Target’

Companies are filling their warehouses or looking into moving factories as they weigh President-elect Donald J. Trump’s threats to impose tariffs on foreign goods.

www.nytimes.com

Trying to source elsewhere so quickly , forget about it

If you were a female you be starting to track your cycle on paper too, I wouldn't be trusting apps.

 

[treeebeard]

2 days without incident.

Trump rocks

Has he pardoned himself yet?

 

[treeebeard]

However Trump won't make life more affordable for them.

He doesn't have to. He just had to make them believe he will.

 

[treeebeard]

Firms trying to get extra stock before Trump comes in and chinese new year

With Trump Tariffs Looming, Businesses Try to ‘Run From a Moving Target’

Companies are filling their warehouses or looking into moving factories as they weigh President-elect Donald J. Trump’s threats to impose tariffs on foreign goods.

www.nytimes.com

Trying to source elsewhere so quickly , forget about it

A few businesses planning on manufacturing places other than China already. Not in America though

 

[Gethelred]

The struggle of minorities can only be carried forward as part of an international, unified movement of the working class. This movement will be based on class, not on gender, sexual orientation, or race. These are reactionary categories which simply do not describe social reality. The Democrats, and here in Australia, the ALP and the Greens, all utilise identity politics to divide the working class and prevent a unified response to the social calamity that they are enforcing.

Thus are coalitions ruined, because you clearly do not give a shit about the struggles of other people. Good luck rebelling against the capitalist pigs without anyone from a minority group. Should be good watching you come to the realisation that you needed them more than they needed you.

It's a bit of a pisser that you're making the exact same mistakes as the Democrats do; they take minority votes for granted in the precise same way you do.

 

[Partridge]

Thing is it IS about feelings and vibes, it’s just very different to those from the Hollywood elite and coastal elites.

I’d argue majority of voters don’t know shit about policy and vote mainly on vibes, that’s the case for everyone. I’ve said many times a large percentage of people wouldn’t even know what left or right wing even mean.

You had people voting for trump then dem governors and senators all over the place, as well as pro trump but pro choice as well. We like to think and create narratives about one election result being ideological to the left/right when it isn’t really that at all.

That's a great point; completely lost of most of those who report on this. Lots more muddled grey than black and white, depending on the issue.

 

[Gethelred]

I'm sure you're well aware of the difference between theoretical democracy and the representative democracy we currently have in place.

That being said, at what point do you think a representative democracy becomes overly cumbersome and unwieldy when particular attention is paid to the increasing number of minority groups within an increasingly multicultural society?

My views here are too long and varied to fully state in a single post; suffice to say that I think since the end of WW2 society is best depicted as a struggle between the working classes - who for the first time in history achieved a level of power and position that they had never obtained previously - and the ownership classes, who have spent the entire time since the New Deal and the end of the war chipping away at different components of that coalition and worker's rights to let them return things to the way they were. Keynesian economics gives way to neoliberalism in the 1970's not because it successfully demonstrated its failure but because it's what the wealthy wanted; civil rights movements taper out and are viciously controlled and repressed whilst active, their messages diluted and twisted to establishment ends once gone. The media goes from believing they have an imperative to inform to deliberately seeking to control and drive policy because the owners want to control what people say and believe; Manufacturing Consent and all that.

As such, trying to depict the flaws within a capitalist democracy as 'overly cumbersome and unwieldy' as being due to the minority groups is - frankly - making the same error that sees some of the working poor attribute their loss of income and prestige to immigrants 'taking their jobs' when the problem is the ownership classes moved that job overseas.

The problem is that society is in a slow decline into plutocracy and capitalist feudalism - some more, some less - whilst having the trappings of the social democracies they used to be hollowed out and/or slowly being stripped away.

How do these minority groups within society have both so much power that they bring democracy to its knees yet so little power that they are not treated in a parity or better by the majority?

 

[Partridge]

Surely allowing gay marriage, and protections for marginalised groups aren’t bad things?

Do you think Dems/ALP/greens just promote this stuff as a way of pissing off the white working class to keep everyone pitted against each other?

I think that’s a stretch, we can give rights and protections to marginalised groups and look to have a working class led movement, I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

The dems barely leant into that stuff in the election campaign at all btw.

No, I'd say it's more they only promote what they and their group believe in, because they either don't interact with other groups, and/or too many of them don't tolerate anyone who doesn't share their views. And you only need to have watched all the polls to see how badly they misread the mood of the country. Again. All over the country too.

 

[Festerz]

My previous post in the international politics threads of SRP was one with several graphics from the NY Times showing the demographics of the Trump win - with swings to the red team cutting across almost every category.

This one (from a performance when Trump was first elected as President) gets to the main point.

Edit: Warning. Vid features a few swear words& vaping which some people might find triggering.