Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: Here we go again!

[Gethelred]

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Just a reminder, even if it hasn't come up for a few pages and y'all should know this stuff by now:

This thread is not about Covid, lockdowns, or vaccines. It is about Donald Trump. While Trump was in office during the pandemic and his response to Covid is relevant, there are pertinent threads for you to post your opinions on those things in.

It might also do with reminding a few that when you post on the SRP, you are responsible for backing up/verifying your claims to fact. What this means is that you will be asked time to time to support your claims with evidence, to ensure that this forum is as free of misinfomation as we can make it.

Do not post conspiracy theories on this forum. We have an entire other forum for that.

Thanks all.

As always, please submit ideas for the thread title by tagging Gethelred! We're looking for something new to match the new thread!

USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[stefcep]

Yeah. It’s called poverty.

There is a strong correlation between crime and poverty and substantial evidence that there is a causal relationship.

In the US, poverty afflicts different groups more than others. Unsurprisingly, you therefore find a higher incidence of crime.

Same as in Australia.

Fix poverty and crime rates will go way down.

Rocket science 101.

And what causes poverty?

 

[Blue1980]

And what causes poverty?

Being black? Sorry, I should of said your boyeymen black culture

 

[liz]

And what causes poverty?

Lots of things. Systemic things. You’re gonna have to go do some independent reading if you’re genuinely interested. I suspect you’re not.

The biggest cause of poverty is probably poverty itself. That is, it’s a cycle that is hard to break from. That’s why “progressives” tend to like affirmative action policies. Ones designed to try and break the cycle of poverty.

 

[JB1975]

There's no question the Democrats are afraid to do the right thing because of their long history with Israel But US voters have swapped that for someone who isn't afraid to do the wrong thing. One only needs to see who he has appointed to know that Republicans are going to be worse than Democrats for Palestinians. Any Muslim who voted for Trump is complicit because he told them exactly who he was and they ignored it.

At least the Democrats seemed to be considering bringing Israel into line, even if they baulked. They probably didn't count on Netanyahu going against all established behaviour in order to run interference for Trump.

This is the horror of the situation. The Democrats were never going to do anything other than allow Israel to do what it pleased, as they've done since the outbreak.

So the choice was: show supports for the party which has supported and enabled every Israeli crime, or support a party which will somehow worsen the situation for Palestinians and other Arabs in the region?

Nothing but a nightmare either way, but now American Muslims can also be blamed for 'authorising' whatever travesty happens under the next administration.

 

[stefcep]

Lots of things. Systemic things. You’re gonna have to go do some independent reading if you’re genuinely interested. I suspect you’re not.

The biggest cause of poverty is probably poverty itself. That is, it’s a cycle that is hard to break from. That’s why “progressives” tend to like affirmative action policies. Ones designed to try and break the cycle of poverty.

There are 22 million whites in poverty in the US What affirmative action policies exist for them to break their cycle of poverty? What systemic factors are progressives correcting to help them?

Approximately 55% of black families are fatherless. Is it on progressives radar as a cause of the cycle of poverty? If so what systemic factors are causing it? Has affirmative action helped reduce the number of black families who are fatherless?

 

[IlovethePies]

This is the horror of the situation. The Democrats were never going to do anything other than allow Israel to do what it pleased, as they've done since the outbreak.

So the choice was: show supports for the party which has supported and enabled every Israeli crime, or support a party which will somehow worsen the situation for Palestinians and other Arabs in the region?

Nothing but a nightmare either way, but now American Muslims can also be blamed for 'authorising' whatever travesty happens under the next administration.

What??

Why would you blame the American Muslims rather than the Democrats? You just acknowledged that the Democrats woud allow Israel to do anything it pleased. So the Muslim Americans have watched their people - no doubt their relatives and families, massacred in Gaza and Lebanon, with the full complicity of the Biden administration.

So because they refused to vote for this genocidal administration, you are now going to blame them for whatever horrors Trump imposes??

 

[Blue1980]

There are 22 million whites in poverty in the US What affirmative action policies exist for them to break their cycle of poverty? What systemic factors are progressives correcting to help them?

Approximately 55% of black families are fatherless. Is it on progressives radar as a cause of the cycle of poverty? If so what systemic factors are causing it? Has affirmative action helped reduce the number of black families who are fatherless?

I would like a stat on how many of those families of the 22 million white folk are also fatherless.

Step one should be trying to lift everyone up and policies which achieve that. The dems do about 10% of what they can and should do in that regard, republicans -50%, unless you believe in trickle down economics and deregulation is good for lifting people out of poverty.

 

[Bloods86]

There are 22 million whites in poverty in the US What affirmative action policies exist for them to break their cycle of poverty? What systemic factors are progressives correcting to help them?

Approximately 55% of black families are fatherless. Is it on progressives radar as a cause of the cycle of poverty? If so what systemic factors are causing it? Has affirmative action helped reduce the number of black families who are fatherless?

Progressive economic policies are designed to lift everyone out of poverty.

What systemic factors have existed in the past that have weighed down and continue to impact white people disproportionately, so that specific measures might need to be considered for them?

Ah, fatherless families, as predicted. Ignoring the conflation of 'fatherless' with unmarried parents or co-parenting in different houses that occurs...

I'd argue poverty which leads to crime and poor legal representation, which leads to disproportionate amounts of black men in prison or in the court system, wouldn't help. It's not a one way street in relation to poverty, unless you're looking for fault.

Progressive policies around education, student debt, child tax credits, housing affordability, healthcare, family planning and reproductive rights, decriminalisation of minor drug offences etc would all assist struggling young men, relieve pressure on families and prevent unwanted pregnancies burdening couples or young women.

 

[stefcep]

I would like a stat on how many of those families of the 22 million white folk are also fatherless.

Step one should be trying to lift everyone up and policies which achieve that. The dems do about 10% of what they can and should do in that regard, republicans -50%, unless you believe in trickle down economics and deregulation is good for lifting people out of poverty.

The rate of poverty is around 500% higher in fatherless families. (8% to 40%). Does that help establish a correlation between fatherlessness and poverty?

I actually do believe a rising sea lifts all ships. Capitalism ( even in so-called communist states) has lifted more people more quickly than any other system in history. We do have inequality, but the inequality in capitalist nations still means a relatively high standard of living (basically poverty is less thna 50% of median income)

 

[Blue1980]

The rate of poverty is around 500% higher in fatherless families. (8% to 40%). Does that help establish a correlation between fatherlessness and poverty?

I actually do believe a rising sea lifts all ships. Capitalism ( even in so-called communist states) has lifted more people more quickly than any other system in history. We do have inequality, but the inequality in capitalist nations still means a relatively high standard of living (basically poverty is less thna 50% of median income)

Im not advocating for communism. I am more a social democrat, I don't think runaway unregulared capitalism is a good thing at all.

 

[stefcep]

Progressive economic policies are designed to lift everyone out of poverty.

What systemic factors have existed in the past that have weighed down and continue to impact white people disproportionately, so that specific measures might need to be considered for them?

Ah, fatherless families, as predicted. Ignoring the conflation of 'fatherless' with unmarried parents or co-parenting in different houses that occurs...

I'd argue poverty which leads to crime and poor legal representation, which leads to disproportionate amounts of black men in prison or in the court system, wouldn't help. It's not a one way street in relation to poverty, unless you're looking for fault.

Progressive policies around education, student debt, child tax credits, housing affordability, healthcare, family planning and reproductive rights, decriminalisation of minor drug offences etc would all assist struggling young men, relieve pressure on families and prevent unwanted pregnancies burdening couples or young women.

So ultimately its the fault of the "system" and circumstances beyond people's control.

Personal responsibility, life choices are low on the list of causes.

More government payments, more programs and more government workers to administer them, are the solutions

 

[stefcep]

Im not advocating for communism. I am more a social democrat, I don't think runaway unregulared capitalism is a good thing at all.

Just pointing out that even self-proclaimed communists states really only achieved economic prosperity comparable to the Western once they became capitalist economies.

Regulation is ncessary shoudl be limited.

 

[Blue1980]

So ultimately its the fault of the "system" and circumstances beyond people's control.

Personal responsibility, life choices are low on the list of causes.

More government payments, more programs and more government workers to administer them, are the solutions

Having a relatively level playing field for people to begin with should be the aim. America is a very unequal society.

Unequal societies are less harmoneous and less cohesive and have more unrest.

The whole "lifting yourself up by the bootstraps" can only go so far. America has become a more fractured society over the last 40-50 years, it is very easy to see why. (and no its got nothing to do with woke or culture wars or immigrants)

 

[Bloods86]

So ultimately its the fault of the "system" and circumstances beyond people's control.

Personal responsibility, life choices are low on the list of causes.

More government payments, more programs and more government workers to administer them, are the solutions

Well that's certainly the hyperbolic response of someone who is more interested in assigning blame to certain demographics rather than examining the context and factors which might lead to societal issues.

 

[Blue1980]

Just pointing out that even self-proclaimed communists states really only achieved economic prosperity comparable to the Western once they became capitalist economies.

Regulation is ncessary shoudl be limited.

Are you a fan of Javier Milei by any chance?

 

[Blue1980]

Well that's certainly the hyperbolic response of someone who is more interested in assigning blame to certain demographics rather than examining the context and factors which might lead to societal issues.

Anyone who is poor, well its their fault for being poor.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Anyone who is poor, well its their fault for being poor.

well, that is basically the way republicans and conservatives think. They will hold the example of those who manage to break out (eg Vance) as "see, he can do it, so anyone can"

 

[Blue1980]

well, that is basically the way republicans and conservatives think. They will hold the example of those who manage to break out (eg Vance) as "see, he can do it, so anyone can"

The exception proves the rule. Also in America another layer is the religous element, like if you are poor it means you aren't one of the "chosen ones" and if good things happen in your life it means god has chosen you etc.

 

[Royces Hart]

Anyone who is poor, well its their fault for being poor.

Why can’t they just be self made like Trump?

 

[Bloods86]

well, that is basically the way republicans and conservatives think. They will hold the example of those who manage to break out (eg Vance) as "see, he can do it, so anyone can"

Vance had his tertiary education heavily assisted by government programs, which are apparently not a solution...

To be fair though, his rise to VP is a good counter argument against government assistance.

 

[Present Not Past]

So ultimately its the fault of the "system" and circumstances beyond people's control.

Personal responsibility, life choices are low on the list of causes.

More government payments, more programs and more government workers to administer them, are the solutions

What does that have to do with government initiatives to ameliorate poverty?

 

[Present Not Past]

well, that is basically the way republicans and conservatives think. They will hold the example of those who manage to break out (eg Vance) as "see, he can do it, so anyone can"

Wasn't he the recipient of government initiatives due to his service in the armed forces?

 

[stefcep]

Having a relatively level playing field for people to begin with should be the aim. America is a very unequal society.

Should the playing field be levelled for everyone? For example, should there be something for the 22 million whites in poverty? Or is better to cast them off as deplorable garbage, or if that's a bit harsh, tell them to "check their privilege?"

Unequal societies are less harmoneous and less cohesive and have more unrest.

I know. The deplorable garbage might even vote for someone like Trump, for example. Then what?

The whole "lifting yourself up by the bootstraps" can only go so far. America has become a more fractured society over the last 40-50 years, it is very easy to see why. (and no its got nothing to do with woke or culture wars or immigrants)

I think personal responsibility goes a lot further than is being acknowledged. People do it all the time.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Wasn't he the recipient of government initiatives due to his service in the armed forces?

Possibly; again that is also part of conservative thinking “poverty cycle give yourself to the military”

 

[Bloods86]

Wasn't he the recipient of government initiatives due to his service in the armed forces?

And his socio-economic background.