5 things i learnt vs essendon

[40yearBLUE]

Alright. Enlighten me fellas.

Will we beat Sydney next week? We haven't won a game at the SCG for 15 years.

Will we beat the Dogs the week after that? They are the form side in the comp.

Will we beat the Hawks after that? Absolutely no chance.

Then we'll be at 2-4. Not looking good for finals at 2-4 I'd say.

The way you are posting at the moment we are gonna need to build a new power station to enlighten you.

We are a fair chance to beat Sydney next week and although the Dogs are in form we are a chance to beat them too, and the Hawks have won one game so they are not in world beating form but do look to be getting it together.

We have a list that on its day is capable of beating any team. ANY TEAM. We need things to go our way against the better teams like the Hawks, Bulldogs, Saints or Cats but we can beat them.

And this hoodoo rubbish is just that, rubbish. We can beat Sydney if we turn up in the right frame of mind and play to our strengths and exploit their weakness, which is a growing list. And on your win loss ratio, Hawks are at 1:2 same ratio as 2:4, do you doubt they can make it?

Have some faith. I understand some posters dont know what it is like to follow a power team, but trust that we have been there in the past, have the people that know how to get us back there and are well on the way there. Have patience.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Alright. Enlighten me fellas.

Will we beat Sydney next week? We haven't won a game at the SCG for 15 years.

Will we beat the Dogs the week after that? They are the form side in the comp.

Will we beat the Hawks after that? Absolutely no chance.

Then we'll be at 2-4. Not looking good for finals at 2-4 I'd say.

When we playb well there are only 2 teams that I worry about. Play well and we will slaughter Sydney. We are a lot better than previous years and better than our display V Ess

 

[40yearBLUE]

Are we alright here?

We dropped one game and it's all over?
We won't make the finals?
You're all crazy.

Explore what happened in this game and you may come out with more positives then negatives.

Yes, we need Jamison. As I'd expressed late last week, he straightens us up and gives Thornton and Bower confidence to do what they do best. Waite also because a forward of centre player. Should have we played O'hAilpin: YES.

We should also have had Browne, Armfield and Yarran playing. Reasons mentioned last week.

The MC must work on a horses for courses basis.
They have learnt the hard way for next week.
Leave in the same side: We lose.
Make the right changes: We win.

I wanted to see Garlett, Russell, Jacobs and even Robinson rested / rotated, whatever.
I did mention Wiggins as well. He did play a reasonable game but our side would have been the better overall without him with the other changes in tow.

Gibbs in particular had a rare quiet one: Guess what, that will happen.
The problem was that once the other mob got running we forgot what to do: That's all.
We've had our shcok treatment and are ready to rejoin the group

In a funny way I am glad it happenend against Essendon.
We got shown up by an inferior side (yes, inferior) on the night and in weeks to come, we have bigger fish to fry.

Now let us all collect ourselves and look forward to the next three weeks.
I for one, can't wait

Cant say I fully agree with that sentiment there Harks. Do you honestly think the team that was on the park last night would not have hammered the Tigers? Or the team on the park against the tigers would have beaten the dons? If the team brought the same aggression into the game against the dons it did against the tigers we would have seen a similar result.

It was virtually the same team anyway. We played without passion against the dons, thats all. The playing side does not matter all that much so long as they come to play. I agree Jamo is a big loss, but not enough of a loss to cost us a win against an average sides like Essendon, but yes definately needed when we play the genuinely talented sides coming up after the Sydney game (although Sydney do play their game plan well).

However, against some sides, and Sydney may well be one of them, (north another, Adelaide another) a slightly different game plan may be called for due to the different tactics they use. And that game plan may call for different skill sets.

But even as I type this I still believe that our current game plan of intense forward 50 pressure and reliance on our midfield dominance should win us most games against all types of opposition, even the low scoring lock down teams like Sydney, if they play with the required intensity and desire.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Certainly agree even though we know SCG is unique in its dimensions. We have more skillful players with more skills. All we need to do ia apply our fundamentals and we should be able to beat Sydney. They have some quality players we mights struggle with but I think we have more that they cannot cover. Result is up to us again. Play well and win. Treat it like a holiday and we will get thumped. Sydney has had some rain - what is the surface like?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Certainly agree even though we know SCG is unique in its dimensions. We have more skillful players with more skills. All we need to do ia apply our fundamentals and we should be able to beat Sydney. They have some quality players we mights struggle with but I think we have more that they cannot cover. Result is up to us again. Play well and win. Treat it like a holiday and we will get thumped. Sydney has had some rain - what is the surface like?

Nah hasnt rained too much here this past week. 2 weeks ago yes and not sure of the forecast but SCG has good drainage so unless it rains Friday and Saturday I dont think it will effect the game.

Sorry to quote myself. I posted this yesterday morning which was sunny but about mid morning it closed over and rained from lunch time till about 6pm. Sunny again this morning but clouding over again now, but doubt it will rain today. But then I didnt think it would yesterday so take no notice of my forecasts.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Hopefully Syd will have heavy legs from Qld not that we should need anymore help

 

[40yearBLUE]

I see different sides needed to play say a Geelong to a Sydney.

I wanted to see O'hailpin, Armfield and Browne against the Bombers.
It didn't happen and they were seemingly some of the best players yesterday with Armfield BOG.

What I am getting at that shocks in selections are O.K. by me if thought through properly.
I feel it must be hard to drop players if they have had reasonable games the week before, yet this is flawed logic.
We must set up to our needs in terms of game plan for each team, each week. We must pre-empt a situation and not just be reactive when it occurs.
This is the test for every Match Committee.
Last week: We failed (irrespective of the result)

What ifs are impossible to prove but I truly feel and I am sure that the MC will see it this way, that the selected team on Saturday just did not play to plan, or ability due to something in our attitude. I would back that to be an aberration.

The odd tweak for injury or form, or as you say because of the opponent and match ups is of course necessary but overall if we had to field exactly the same 22 every week, provided they bring their best performance will win more games than they lose.

 

[Loramarthalas]

And on your win loss ratio, Hawks are at 1:2 same ratio as 2:4, do you doubt they can make it?

Have some faith. I understand some posters dont know what it is like to follow a power team, but trust that we have been there in the past, have the people that know how to get us back there and are well on the way there. Have patience.

I have plenty of patience. We've barely won a game in the last deacade, but here I am still following the Blueboys.

I don't doubt for a moment that the Hawks can make it. But they are a better team. Even you would have to agree with that.

At 2-4, if we lose to the Swans, Dogs, Hawks, I'd say our finals campaign would be in serious doubt. Is that such a stretch?

Mind you, I think we have some chance of beating the Swans. It will be a massive victory if we do. Massive. But we have some chance. Likewise the Dogs. We will be $4-5 underdogs, but we were last year too and we beat them.

Against the Hawks we have no hope at all. We haven't come within 60 points of them in 5 years. No. Hope. At. All.

If we manage to be 3-3, I'll be more than happy.

 

[Slattery_20]

1. Essendon will play finals.
2. Judd carries our team.
3. I hate the Velvet Sledgehammer so much it makes my eyes bleed.
4. The game has been taken over by pedantic, whistle-happy maggots.
5. Blues may miss the eight.

Both way, way, way too early to call. We're probably similar sides on best 22, but that's not (ever) the way the cookie crumbles.
Your run will be decided by how you cope when Kreuzer, Jacobs, Robinson etc tire/form drops off. It's tough to expect that level of performance all year from 1st, 2nd year players. It will be exactly the same with us, although we've got some names to come back.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I have plenty of patience. We've barely won a game in the last deacade, but here I am still following the Blueboys.

I don't doubt for a moment that the Hawks can make it. But they are a better team. Even you would have to agree with that.

At 2-4, if we lose to the Swans, Dogs, Hawks, I'd say our finals campaign would be in serious doubt. Is that such a stretch?

Mind you, I think we have some chance of beating the Swans. It will be a massive victory if we do. Massive. But we have some chance. Likewise the Dogs. We will be $4-5 underdogs, but we were last year too and we beat them.

Against the Hawks we have no hope at all. We haven't come within 60 points of them in 5 years. No. Hope. At. All.

If we manage to be 3-3, I'll be more than happy.

You. Dont. Have. A. Clue.

You have just witnessed a rank outsider get up over us and you say we are no hope at all of upsetting the hawks.

And you say 2/4 and we are no chance of finals, so what you are saying is that with 16 games left we cant win 10 of them. 12 will get you a final berth.

And then you say 3/3 you are ok with but 2/4 you have written us off.

Go away, see if you can buy a clue, if not borrow one before you post again.

 

[blue gunslinger]

so much anger in you!

 

[Loramarthalas]

You. Dont. Have. A. Clue.

You have just witnessed a rank outsider get up over us and you say we are no hope at all of upsetting the hawks.

And you say 2/4 and we are no chance of finals, so what you are saying is that with 16 games left we cant win 10 of them. 12 will get you a final berth.

And then you say 3/3 you are ok with but 2/4 you have written us off.

Go away, see if you can buy a clue, if not borrow one before you post again.

Who the f*&k do you think you are? My opinions have just as much place on here as your arrogant, close-minded horsesh&t does.

From our discussion on previous threads, I had figured you as a decent person. Ready to listen to other opinions, at least. Apparently I was wrong.


You're damn right we are no hope of beating the Hawks. None at all. They have us covered in every possible aspect of the game. Every last one. Unless they get a new raft of injuries we wont beat them this year.

Tell me, how we will beat them?

Put five people on Buddy?

Bring Yarran in?

w***er.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Who the f*&k do you think you are? My opinions have just as much place on here as your arrogant, close-minded horsesh&t does.

From our discussion on previous threads, I had figured you as a decent person. Ready to listen to other opinions, at least. Apparently I was wrong.


You're damn right we are no hope of beating the Hawks. None at all. They have us covered in every possible aspect of the game. Every last one. Unless they get a new raft of injuries we wont beat them this year.

Tell me, how we will beat them?

Put five people on Buddy?

Bring Yarran in?

w***er.

So you couldn't find a single clue anywhere? You have to go down to the Clue District.

Did you try The Clue Hut, Clues on Main, Clues R Us, Budget Clues, Clue City?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Very interested in how a player can fail at being the number one defender one week and be reduced to 4th or 5th best defender as a result.

Thornton is easily our 3rd best defender and quite often our 1st or 2nd best defender.

 

[Loramarthalas]

So you couldn't find a single clue anywhere? You have to go down to the Clue District.

Did you try The Clue Hut, Clues on Main, Clues R Us, Budget Clues, Clue City?

Amazing. All that knowledge, and maturity to go with it. You are the complete package.

Try answering my questions.

How, exactly, will we go about beating the Hawks?

They've won our last 3 game by an average of 10 goals. What drastic changes have taken place since rnd 22 2008, when they flogged us? Have we suddenly found a backline from somewhere?

 

[40yearBLUE]

By the juvenile outrage I'd say Blues Clues would be the go

Yep Blues Clues would have them. And Damn your speed! I edited my post while my memory remembered the entire gag and your post shows my edit!!

 

[Loramarthalas]

Alright.

Every team is beatable. Fair enough.

Some are more beatable than others though. Like I said, I'll be happy if we are at 3-3. If we can beat any of the next three we play, I'll be over the moon.

If we don't, well, I'd say finals are looking more difficult. That's hardly a controversial opinion.

Seems some take offence at it, though.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Amazing. All that knowledge, and maturity to go with it. You are the complete package.

Try answering my questions.

How, exactly, will we go about beating the Hawks?

They've won our last 3 game by an average of 10 goals. What drastic changes have taken place since rnd 22 2008, when they flogged us? Have we suddenly found a backline from somewhere?

Firstly at the start of every season last years form is only a mild indicator to what may or may not happen on any given day this season. So mild as to be irrelevant.

Last year the pies beat the cats by 10 goals or more, why didnt that happen again this year? Last year the Hawks beat the swans by 6 goals in their only encounter in rd 15, before going on to win the flag, so as reigning premier, did the swans have a chance of beating the hawks, not on your logic. Did they?

You really ought to think your arguments through before making them.

We have a fully functioning and on its day dominant midfield. The hawks already have a number of injuries. And then there is the attitude variable that I believe we were the victim of against the Bombers. If they took us as easily as we seemed to take Essendon, I can tell you who will be on the end of a 10 goal belting and I will give you a clue, seeing as you seem to need one, it wont be us.

Now off you go, learn how to play with the big kids then come back for another crack at it.

 

[Loramarthalas]

So mild as to be irrelvant?

The Cats haven't carried over any form then? The Dogs neither?

Of course the previous year has relevance. How could it possibly not? Do we have an entirely new team now? Did we not learn anything last year?

So, the sum total of your argument about why we will beat the Hawks is this;
the Pies beat the Cats, therefore we will beat the Hawks.

Wonderful logic.

We may or may not have Jammo in the side. The Hawks will certainly have most of their team back by then. Sewell and Lewis back this week. Campbell probably against the Blues.

Granted, if they don't turn up to play like we did against Essendon, then we will have some show.

But it think its much more likely that we will be the team who doesn't show up to play. We have a less experienced side. We have smaller bodies. We are inferior in every department, including our midfield.

While it is not impossbile, I'd say we have very, very little chance of getting there.

How is your opinion any more or less valid than mine? You simply scream yours louder and use pointless, mocking language to hide your lack of confidence in it.

 

[40yearBLUE]

So mild as to be irrelvant?

The Cats haven't carried over any form then? The Dogs neither?

Of course the previous year has relevance. How could it possibly not? Do we have an entirely new team now? Did we not learn anything last year?

So, the sum total of your argument about why we will beat the Hawks is this;
the Pies beat the Cats, therefore we will beat the Hawks.

Wonderful logic.

We may or may not have Jammo in the side. The Hawks will certainly have most of their team back by then. Sewell and Lewis back this week. Campbell probably against the Blues.

Granted, if they don't turn up to play like we did against Essendon, then we will have some show.

But it think its much more likely that we will be the team who doesn't show up to play. We have a less experienced side. We have smaller bodies. We are inferior in every department, including our midfield.

While it is not impossbile, I'd say we have very, very little chance of getting there.

How is your opinion any more or less valid than mine? You simply scream yours louder and use pointless, mocking language to hide your lack of confidence in it.

You really are not very good at this are you?

Like most posters that blurt out the first thing that pops into your head, when questioned on your assertions you quickly tone them down.

Us being able to beat Hawthorn because the cats beat the pies is nonsense and not what I argued at all. Here it is again for you.

Last years form is irrelevant. I.R.R.E.L.E.V.A.N.T. As clearly pointed out to you in my argument that last year the Hawks easily beat the Swans and are reigning premiers, but that small fact did not stop them being beaten by the Swans this year. Imagine if the players all believed that we cant possibly win because we could not last year?

Last year the Cats carrying impeccable form (they had not yet lost a match) lost to the Pies by an embarrassing amount. Did they at any time think because we lost to them last year we probably cant beat them this year? Did they lose to them this year?

So yes. Irrelevant. And at best only a mild indicator of current likely outcomes. What part of that argument is confusing you?

And as I pointed out at the start of this post, now you have toned down your argument from No. Hope. At. All, to oh well all teams are beatable and we are some show if they dont turn up with the right attitude.

Go and have a wade through the arguments I make. They are thought through. I dont post then think, I think first.

Like I said, go away and have a think about it before posting such rubbish. I don't have a problem with you having your own (misinformed) opinions, but don't come on here and get upset when other posters try to point out the clear weakness of your arguments and the flaws in your logic.

 

[Go_Blues!]

So mild as to be irrelvant?

The Cats haven't carried over any form then? The Dogs neither?

Of course the previous year has relevance. How could it possibly not? Do we have an entirely new team now? Did we not learn anything last year?

So, the sum total of your argument about why we will beat the Hawks is this;
the Pies beat the Cats, therefore we will beat the Hawks.

Wonderful logic.

We may or may not have Jammo in the side. The Hawks will certainly have most of their team back by then. Sewell and Lewis back this week. Campbell probably against the Blues.

Granted, if they don't turn up to play like we did against Essendon, then we will have some show.

But it think its much more likely that we will be the team who doesn't show up to play. We have a less experienced side. We have smaller bodies. We are inferior in every department, including our midfield.

While it is not impossbile, I'd say we have very, very little chance of getting there.

How is your opinion any more or less valid than mine? You simply scream yours louder and use pointless, mocking language to hide your lack of confidence in it.

Some quality shite-canning in this thread!!

So, it is pretty much a fact that any team can beat any other on any given day. If Geelong played Melbourne every week, Melbourne would eventually win one. However, clearly Hawthorn will go in as a firm favourite against Carlton. That being said, with the different preparation times, strange things happen this time of year.

Looking at the four sides; Carlton, Swans, Bulldogs, and Hawthorn, their quality, and how they are traveling, you would back Carlton to win at least one of those games.

 

[Loramarthalas]

Like I said, go away and have a think about it before posting such rubbish. I don't have a problem with you having your own (misinformed) opinions, but don't come on here and get upset when other posters try to point out the clear weakness of your arguments and the flaws in your logic.

You see. This is what shits me.

YOU started this argument. YOU got upset and called me clueless. REMEMBER?

No. You probably don't. So much seems convenient for you to forget or misrepresent.

The Hawks will beat us. Not just beat us, flog us senseless. Bookmark it.

It's halfwitted poster like you that make BF such a godawful brutocracy. The loudest and smarmiest wins. He who sinks to the lowest level first wins.

Congrats. You win.

 

[40yearBLUE]

You see. This is what shits me.

YOU started this argument. YOU got upset and called me clueless. REMEMBER?

No. You probably don't. So much seems convenient for you to forget or misrepresent.

The Hawks will beat us. Not just beat us, flog us senseless. Bookmark it.

It's halfwitted poster like you that make BF such a godawful brutocracy. The loudest and smarmiest wins. He who sinks to the lowest level first wins.

Congrats. You win.

Whilst I dont want to appear childish and resort to no you started it, nah uh you did, you started the contary posts to yours and posted what, as a result of my and other posters arguments, a post you have twice watered down because the posters that argued with you have shown you quite clearly the silliness of your original post.

Even now, you persist with the rubbish posts of the Hawks will do this to us and the hawks will do that to us, and anyone that disagrees with you are the reason why BF is such a godawful brutocracy (nice pluck there, how long have you been waiting to throw that into a conversation!!).

And this crap about he who talks loudest? There is a volume control on here???

How do you KNOW we will lose? If you THINK we will lose then say so and state your case why but acknowledge that you don't KNOW anything at all about the FUTURE. No one does. You have an opinion, but an opinion is not knowing, unless of course you have the sports almanac from Back to the Future, do you? So if you dont know then you are without a clue what will actually happen. Without a clue. Remember the themes of my put downs to you.

If you start at the bottom with your posts there is not much lower you can go.

Now you can take what I am saying or you can tell me to stick it, I dont give a flying one either way. But you are in for a lot of these arguments from the "Brutocracy" if you keep up with crap like we have been arguing today.

And if we should happen to beat the Hawks I expect that you will come on here and have your reasons why you were, what would the word be....hmmm.....WRONG. Remember I have not said we would or would not beat them, just that we COULD and that history is no barrier to us being able to.

And one last point. This victim mentality that the world is against you because we argue with you, post something sensible and see how much argument you get. Have a think about what you are posting and where you are posting it. Posting on a Carlton board that we have no hope of this or no chance at that, what did you expect would be the reaction from passionate fans and to only have as your defence, oh well they smashed us for the last 3 years so therefore they will again....come on.

Its not the loudest and smarmiest. In any debate the facts always trump baseless opinion.

 

[thylacine60]

30Man, any point me whacking the pop-corn in the micro-wave? Only have the one pack left so don't want to waste it if the sting has gone out of this issue.

 

[AndyLesPaul]

Gee you are a bit tough on stevens, 23 possessions - 91% Eff. wish I had him in my supercoach side

Carlton is in a similar situation as Richmond, young list, a mixture of some old talent and on the way up.

Richmond made the mistake of not having the right focus in round 1 and was soundly beaten. Richmond read too much press about how much better they should be and with the Cousins injection thought it would just happen - WRONG

Carlton round 3 - went into game on top of ladder, much press about how good they were, odds for flag shortened, heads got big and lost focus.

Forget it and get on with the rest of the season, Carlton’s side on Saturday night was pretty good, just too many played below their best, got a good start and relaxed.

IMO Fevola was too pedantic in front of the sticks and his misses cost the 4 points and top spot.

Essendon had nothing to lose, and out run your team. THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE EIGHT.


I can still see both Richmond and Carlton making the eight.

Now theres the flaw in your hypothesis

i mean

Essendon beat Carlton by 4 Points
Carlton beat Richmond by 80 Points

i'm not saying that Essendon are going to make the eight because of that,
but how could you come to the conclusion that Richmond will make the 8?

and btw, does this mean Richmond has not had the right focus in 3 rounds?
and i'd say Essendon would have a "young list, a mixture of some old talent and on the way up" too.