A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Syd]

Have you ever heard of 'relocations' ??

There is a Richmond near the Hawkesbury River, could work well for the Tigers to move up there as that third club.

And there is a relatively local RL club known as the Tigers they could co-market with.
Only problem is the RL Tigers have a won a comp in the past 3-decades so might not be a suitable partner

 

[bombersfan4000]

Don't fall into the trap of comparing an AFL club and NRL clubs, GWS needs at least 25,000 members and average home attendances of 15 - 20k - I have no doubt it will happen but when I don't know.

GWS are a basket case that have been around for 5 years, compare that to nrl clubs that have been around for 60/70 plus years
They aren't going as bad as every one makes out to believe

 

[Sttew]

I


It doesn't matter whether he got it wrong, he may have said it deliberately to get the convo going, they are thousands of k's apart and the population that a third team in S/SW Sydney would service would be about the population of Perth.

Sydney the gong and Newcastle and anything in between has about 30% of Australia's population.

You can't just say "the population is there, so let's establish a third team". What's the interest level / passion meter? Apart from diehard supporters of the Swans (and to a very small degree, GWS) Sydneysiders don't really care about AFL.

 

[Garlic muncher]

You can't just say "the population is there, so let's establish a third team". What's the interest level / passion meter? Apart from diehard supporters of the Swans (and to a very small degree, GWS) Sydneysiders don't really care about AFL.

Yes you can, initially you build grass roots through Auskick and younger and group football, it is not as if there is no junior football or comps in S/SW Sydney - provide enough resources for growth and eventually you build a decent amount of interest, that is exactly what the AFL and Swans did around the harbour and Eastern suburbs, now there is 350 junior teams playing in he Sydney Harbour junior league.

And that is exactly what GWS is doing in WS ATM

 

[bombersfan4000]

Yes you can, initially you build grass roots through Auskick and younger and group football, it is not as if there is no junior football or comps in S/SW Sydney - provide enough resources for growth and eventually you build a decent amount of interest, that is exactly what the AFL and Swans did around the harbour and Eastern suburbs, now there is 350 junior teams playing in he Sydney Harbour junior league.

And that is exactly what GWS is doing in WS ATM

The same as in qld. The afl rolling out their auskick programs, every where & giving the kids options at a young age. The full effects of those programs will not be seen untill several years down the track

 

[Tyler Hodges]

Not quite...

Melbourne averages 39620 per match with a little over 4 matches/week (58 matches, 14 rounds), so a bit over 160K/week. (If you want to include 4 matches in Geelong, that'd add another 7k/week to the average).

Subi averages 34020 (~10K under capacity), so with a similar rate of non attendance at the new/bigger ground, they'll probably average 45-50K, so even 2 matches would have them lucky to get 100k/week on average (even without factoring in there being fewer fans per team).

Your better off comparing venue capacity to attendance ratios for aami as opposed to adelaide oval for new stadium attendance assumptions, so 100k would be the bare minimum more realistically 110-115k per week, cant forget were talking about a world class stadium not just the best in australia. Your right they will never compete with 2 melbourne stadiums but certain weekends would result in WA having the highest attendances which would be a first.

 

[telsor]

Your better off comparing venue capacity to attendance ratios for aami as opposed to adelaide oval for new stadium attendance assumptions, so 100k would be the bare minimum more realistically 110-115k per week, cant forget were talking about a world class stadium not just the best in australia. Your right they will never compete with 2 melbourne stadiums but certain weekends would result in WA having the highest attendances which would be a first.

Capacity is supposed to be 60K, so 110-115 is *very* full.

I suppose it depends why people don't turn up, but after 20+ years a fair few just wouldn't want to go every week, but know that if they give up their membership they wont get to go at all. A situation that will most likely still be the case at the new ground (after the first 2-3 years when the newness wears off). That situation doesn't replicate from Adelaide.

 

[Garlic muncher]

If you look at a map of Sydney and project 10/15 years forward there is a hell of a population in the Southern and S/W part of Sydney that is a very long way away from Spotless, a club representing the Southern side of the M5, which would be Revesby across to Kogarah and down to Cronulla or a club around Liverpool that represents the area down to Campbelltown would be smarter than any Newcastle/CC team

That still leaves GWS a huge demographic including Parramatta, Blacktown out to Penrith up to Pennant Hills, Kellyville, Hornsby etc.

I think the AFL would be mad to ignore these areas.

 

[Chief]

When you look at the giants crowds & memberships it's not that far behind a few of the nrl clubs. For all the hype made behind how big the nrl is in Sydney, their teams are really nothing to rave about size wise! The majority of them have been around for 60, 70plus years

But the crowds have to support a competitive AFL club, not an NRL club.

 

[Ian Dunross]

My 2 cents -

NRL is dying before our eyes

Scandal after scandal, and serious scandals too. Falling sponsorship. Poor administration

Boxing was huge 60 years ago

Tennis was huge 40 years ago

Sporting preferences change w time

AFL is clearly a superior product

Sydney pulls crowds far greater than the best supported NRL side in Sydney

The change is coming

4 sides in Sydney/NSW by 2035 my bet.

 

[Garlic muncher]

My 2 cents -

NRL is dying before our eyes

Scandal after scandal, and serious scandals too. Falling sponsorship. Poor administration

Boxing was huge 60 years ago

Tennis was huge 40 years ago

Sporting preferences change w time

AFL is clearly a superior product

Sydney pulls crowds far greater than the best supported NRL side in Sydney

The change is coming

4 sides in Sydney/NSW by 2035 my bet.

I reckon 3 within 10/15 don't know about 4, whilst i agree with some of your post i think tennis is still huge, but has lost plenty of traction in this country, but IMO that is due to the population shift from the country to the city, every country town had decent grass courts, many church Parishes had decent grass courts and many of these including country towns are now closed or lost with time, Australians now instead of joining a Tennis cub join a indoor netball, gym, indoor cricket or basketball center where they just turn up and pay, no committees or volunteering or fundraising is needed, it is the equivalent of fast food.

Boxing is still pretty big but MMA is probably bigger, i doubt though that RL is on its last legs, but it does seem to stagger about.

 

[saviour01]

My 2 cents -

NRL is dying before our eyes

Scandal after scandal, and serious scandals too. Falling sponsorship. Poor administration

Boxing was huge 60 years ago

Tennis was huge 40 years ago

Sporting preferences change w time

AFL is clearly a superior product

Sydney pulls crowds far greater than the best supported NRL side in Sydney

The change is coming

4 sides in Sydney/NSW by 2035 my bet.

I disagree with most of your post but def agree with this point. AFL in Brisbane 15 years ago was huge. They could do no wrong! Now look at it. A shame really.

Where is the interest from the 3rd team coming from? I'm involved in the SydneyAFL, clubs are struggling to put u19s teams together. In the u19s div 2 comp, there is 6 teams. 2 which have a team in div 1 and have players back up and the other 4 either have merged or struggle to get 14 players each week. We had to lend a merged team players the other week. Was like under 8's all over again.

 

[TigerToughSkin]

Tasmanian and Northern Queensland would be more practical

 

[Garlic muncher]

Just on the 3rd team in Sydney in 2014 the Sydney juniors Annual report claimed - that there were 10091 Players, involving 382 teams in season 2014 -http://aflsj.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2014-Annual-Report.pdf

I think from memory WS in 2014 provided about 2200 players, the va

I disagree with most of your post but def agree with this point. AFL in Brisbane 15 years ago was huge. They could do no wrong! Now look at it. A shame really.

Where is the interest from the 3rd team coming from? I'm involved in the SydneyAFL, clubs are struggling to put u19s teams together. In the u19s div 2 comp, there is 6 teams. 2 which have a team in div 1 and have players back up and the other 4 either have merged or struggle to get 14 players each week. We had to lend a merged team players the other week. Was like under 8's all over again.

You are getting AFL mixed up with AF at grass roots, just a matter of time before there is a resurgence at the top level in Brisbane and the grass roots is already there to back it up.

Also at community level in Sydney, RL also struggles, there are clubs folding etc, they have nothing to write home about.

 

[saviour01]

I grew up in the cronulla area. They have 11 senior teams RL. Shire in AFL has 1. Sure, not comparable for all of sydney etc etc.

I'd like to see AFL grow in Sydney, I just cant see it happening. GWS crowds are poor and tv figures are horrible for a top 4 side.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Cant speak about Cronulla, but the Sydney combined comp which seems to service about half of Sydney including St George, Canterbury, Balmain and Wests areas including Liverpool and Campbelltown has combined in 3 divisions only 24 senior teams and only 6 in the first division.

 

[Bachars Beard]

Eventually the game will get to the point where I can see divisions being created. 5 team Sydney division, 4 Team QLD & Newcastle/Nth Coast NSW, 3 WA & 2 SA, 5 team Vic, 4 team Vic + A Tassie/Nth Melb team.

25 team comp 5 divisions. 12 team Play offs. Top 2 from each division and 2 Wild cards.

 

[deltablues]

The midland mavericks lol. Don't tasmania deserve to get a team before all these other teams?

Yes. Oatlands Raiders.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Just what we need ... more teams. Don't we have enough crappy players on AFL lists already?

 

[deltablues]

A 3rd team in Sydney whilst at least 10 years away makes more sense than Perth and Adelaide unless they suddenly have a huge population spike.

The AFL wants to grow the game and what better way than getting all the people that don't currently follow to get interested.

There is much more to gain from gaining the bigger market of Sydney that is not into football yet than there is in growing the smaller Perth and Adelaide markets that are already following football.

Why should the AFL try to expand the game into non-Aussie Rules states? Is the AFL a TV business or a football organization?

Sure, we all know the answer to that, but the AFL as custodian of the game should stop trying to be M&A wannabes and focus on administering the game. Depth (product quality), not breadth, should be their mission.

Quaint view, I know, but there you go...

PS the North American Ice Hockey League tried the same expansionist approach and failed miserably.

 

[deltablues]

A club based in perths northern suburbs which is constantly expanding will get crowds bigger than gws currently.

But aren't they all Brits/Sorf Efrikans? Fans of diving divas and shirt lifters?

 

[Whowants2know]

Surely it has to be Tasmania, then we can finally call it a national game, instead of the current MFL Mainland Football League

 

[deltablues]

The point is an expansion market against a captive market. The potential to grow is far far higher in NSW than in WA. You'd get much more TV money if AFL became more popular there, where another Perth side doesn't do much.

Yes, it's not necessarily going to work, but the risk v reward is much much higher. In terms of long term planning it's where the focus will be.

Bud, what is your criterion for this game? Chasing the TV dollar?

Sure, the AFL head honchos will receive mega remuneration morphing Aussie Rules into an entertainment TV ratings game. I fully expect them to "grow" the game on the planet Jupiter. And you only have to see the grifters and hucksters running the AFL - investments bankers and Establishment favorite sons from the big end of town trying to impress their peer group.

Do they have at heart the interests of the average Joe fan? Answer - Hell, no.

TV interests are totally antithetical to the interests and focus of the traditional footy fan. Yet they pay the money and the toll because when it comes to religion us fans will always kick in to the collection plate. We have no choice...

 

[Colonial]

Why should the AFL try to expand the game into non-Aussie Rules states? Is the AFL a TV business or a football organization?

Sure, we all know the answer to that, but the AFL as custodian of the game should stop trying to be M&A wannabes and focus on administering the game. Depth (product quality), not breadth, should be their mission.

Quaint view, I know, but there you go...

PS the North American Ice Hockey League tried the same expansionist approach and failed miserably.

Depth? Thats what they are doing with the northern academies and clubs.
As much as it is about tv money its also about growing the junior base. Dont let the tin foil hat slip to much.

 

[Colonial]

Bud, what is your criterion for this game? Chasing the TV dollar?

Sure, the AFL head honchos will receive mega remuneration morphing Aussie Rules into an entertainment TV ratings game. I fully expect them to "grow" the game on the planet Jupiter. And you only have to see the grifters and hucksters running the AFL - investments bankers and Establishment favorite sons from the big end of town trying to impress their peer group.

Do they have at heart the interests of the average Joe fan? Answer - Hell, no.

TV interests are totally antithetical to the interests and focus of the traditional footy fan. Yet they pay the money and the toll because when it comes to religion us fans will always kick in to the collection plate. We have no choice...

Im an average joe fan. My interests are the Giants. So it seems you dont have joe fans interests at heart either.