Strategy Aaron Naughton - Key Defender or Key Forward?

[Conception]

Yeah, not disputing the erratic kicking and that it can be particularly costly at times, but sending a 50 goal key forward to the backline because he also kicks 40 behinds, when we have no one else close to replacing him, is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Yes we do. We have Lobb, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as key-forward options. The latter two have 10 years of their career ahead of them. You could say "but they don't give us what Naughton gives" - so what? That's what time and patience is for. If the club had any brains, this year should now be classified as a rebuilding year, and we should be exploring ways to get the best out of our team in future years.

Max King was probably worse until this year. I’m sure he’d make a very good intercepting defender too. But the Saints would never do that and for good reason.

This argument goes both ways. I'm sure Alex Rance could've been a very good 40+ goal a year full forward if he played there. Darcy Moore probably could've gotten to that level eventually if he was kept as a forward. Same with Jeremy McGovern, etc.

At the end of the day, it's much better to get the absolute best out of a player, rather than get sucked into the idea that if a player can kick 45-50 goals a year, he must play forward. Naughton is a supreme athlete, a great mark and has great groundwork for a guy of his height, but he does not possess good forward instincts, often finds himself in situations where he doesn't know what to do, can't kick for goal and interrupts teammates' marking contests. A guy like him brings much more value to a defence, where he can interrupt opposition marks instead, and intercept every ball they try to kick forward.

Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron set the example of what a top quality forward should be. Like Naughton, they are great at marking and winning 1v1, but unlike Naughton, they are intelligent forwards, always know what they're doing, just as dangerous creatively as they are at scoring, and they can kick. Naughton isn't even half the key forward either of those two are, and yet he's supposed to be our single most important forward in our lineup? So mission-critical to our success that we simply cannot afford him to not play there? At that point, it should be clear there is something very wrong with the way this team has been constructed and developed over the years.

 

[Freshwater]

Yes we do. We have Lobb, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as key-forward options. The latter two have 10 years of their career ahead of them. You could say "but they don't give us what Naughton gives" - so what? That's what time and patience is for. If the club had any brains, this year should now be classified as a rebuilding year, and we should be exploring ways to get the best out of our team in future years.


This argument goes both ways. I'm sure Alex Rance could've been a very good 40+ goal a year full forward if he played there. Darcy Moore probably could've gotten to that level eventually if he was kept as a forward. Same with Jeremy McGovern, etc.

At the end of the day, it's much better to get the absolute best out of a player, rather than get sucked into the idea that if a player can kick 45-50 goals a year, he must play forward. Naughton is a supreme athlete, a great mark and has great groundwork for a guy of his height, but he does not possess good forward instincts, often finds himself in situations where he doesn't know what to do, can't kick for goal and interrupts teammates' marking contests. A guy like him brings much more value to a defence, where he can interrupt opposition marks instead, and intercept every ball they try to kick forward.

Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron set the example of what a top quality forward should be. Like Naughton, they are great at marking and winning 1v1, but unlike Naughton, they are intelligent forwards, always know what they're doing, just as dangerous creatively as they are at scoring, and they can kick. Naughton isn't even half the key forward either of those two are, and yet he's supposed to be our single most important forward in our lineup? So mission-critical to our success that we simply cannot afford him to not play there? At that point, it should be clear there is something very wrong with the way this team has been constructed and developed over the years.

Is that you Gia? Very good well argued post. More intelligent than our entire coaching team.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yes we do. We have Lobb, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as key-forward options. The latter two have 10 years of their career ahead of them. You could say "but they don't give us what Naughton gives" - so what? That's what time and patience is for. If the club had any brains, this year should now be classified as a rebuilding year, and we should be exploring ways to get the best out of our team in future years.


This argument goes both ways. I'm sure Alex Rance could've been a very good 40+ goal a year full forward if he played there. Darcy Moore probably could've gotten to that level eventually if he was kept as a forward. Same with Jeremy McGovern, etc.

At the end of the day, it's much better to get the absolute best out of a player, rather than get sucked into the idea that if a player can kick 45-50 goals a year, he must play forward. Naughton is a supreme athlete, a great mark and has great groundwork for a guy of his height, but he does not possess good forward instincts, often finds himself in situations where he doesn't know what to do, can't kick for goal and interrupts teammates' marking contests. A guy like him brings much more value to a defence, where he can interrupt opposition marks instead, and intercept every ball they try to kick forward.

Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron set the example of what a top quality forward should be. Like Naughton, they are great at marking and winning 1v1, but unlike Naughton, they are intelligent forwards, always know what they're doing, just as dangerous creatively as they are at scoring, and they can kick. Naughton isn't even half the key forward either of those two are, and yet he's supposed to be our single most important forward in our lineup? So mission-critical to our success that we simply cannot afford him to not play there? At that point, it should be clear there is something very wrong with the way this team has been constructed and developed over the years.

So because he’s not as good as two of the best forwards in the comp (who are both 30+ mind you with 12+ years experience) he can’t be critical to us?

Interesting take.

Amazing that this guy with no creativity or forward instincts is rated elite for goal assists only behind Hawkins and above Cameron. Must be doing something right when he’s not hitting the scoreboard himself

 

[Conception]

So because he’s not as good as two of the best forwards in the comp (who are both 30+ mind you with 12+ years experience) he can’t be critical to us?

Interesting take.

Amazing that this guy with no creativity or forward instincts is rated elite for goal assists only behind Hawkins and above Cameron. Must be doing something right when he’s not hitting the scoreboard himself

He's not just "not as good" as them, he's far worse in every way as a forward bar marking and athleticism.

How many of those goal assists came in big games? Or against quality defence? I'm not saying he can't get assists, but his ability to be creative or hit forwards by foot is not even remotely close to the level of Hawkins, Cameron, or any of the other top key forwards over the last 10 years (Kennedy, Roughead, Franklin, Riewoldt, etc). What do 8 of the last 10 flag winners have in common?
Given we're on our second repeat of our 2020 season, I am sure he will have a big game against bottom dwellers North Melbourne in two weeks (like Adelaide in 2020), and all of you in favour of keeping him forward will be saying "see? told you so".

Sure, as Melbourne showed in 2021 you don't necessarily need that complete package, and Ben Brown is a worse player than Naughton, but at least Ben Brown could kick for goal.
I'm sure with enough time and training, Jake Lever and Steven May could've been reasonably prolific full forwards capable of 40-50 goals a year, but guess what? They still provide Melbourne far better value in defence, because that's what their skillset is optimized for. Steven May on one leg was still more than capable of shutting down Naughton in the Grand Final that year, which further highlights how Naughton cannot be trusted to have an influence in the big games against quality opposition.

 

[doggies ftw]

He's not just "not as good" as them, he's far worse in every way as a forward bar marking and athleticism.

How many of those goal assists came in big games? Or against quality defence? I'm not saying he can't get assists, but his ability to be creative or hit forwards by foot is not even remotely close to the level of Hawkins, Cameron, or any of the other top key forwards over the last 10 years (Kennedy, Roughead, Franklin, Riewoldt, etc). What do 8 of the last 10 flag winners have in common?
Given we're on our second repeat of our 2020 season, I am sure he will have a big game against bottom dwellers North Melbourne in two weeks (like Adelaide in 2020), and all of you in favour of keeping him forward will be saying "see? told you so".

Sure, as Melbourne showed in 2021 you don't necessarily need that complete package, and Ben Brown is a worse player than Naughton, but at least Ben Brown could kick for goal.
I'm sure with enough time and training, Jake Lever and Steven May could've been reasonably prolific full forwards capable of 40-50 goals a year, but guess what? They still provide Melbourne far better value in defence, because that's what their skillset is optimized for. Steven May on one leg was still more than capable of shutting down Naughton in the Grand Final that year, which further highlights how Naughton cannot be trusted to have an influence in the big games against quality opposition.

You do realise Hawkins wasn’t always the player he is today? Naughty quite clearly had him covered at the same age…



Cameron admittedly was a freak from day one, but let’s not judge a 23 YO key forward because he’s not ‘half the player’ of guys who are in their 15th seasons ffs. Most KPP are just hitting their straps at 23.

 

[Conception]

You do realise Hawkins wasn’t always the player he is today? Naughty quite clearly had him covered at the same age…

View attachment 1709453View attachment 1709454

Cameron admittedly was a freak from day one, but let’s not judge a 23 YO key forward because he’s not ‘half the player’ of guys who are in their 15th seasons ffs. Most KPP are just hitting their straps at 23.

This might be true, but he's been playing as a forward for 5 years now, and hasn't demonstrated any improvement since 2021. He still has the same flaws in his game, and right now he's in a particularly bad form slump. His kicking for goal, a fairly straightforward fundamental skill for a forward, has gotten even worse this year, and it has always been a significant weakness for him.

If he's going to remain as a forward, at the bare minimum you'd want different coaches helping him develop his game, starting with the head coach. This is highly unlikely to happen as Beveridge is contracted for 2 years, and still seems to have plenty of power over football operations. Because of this, it's highly unlikely he will be tried in defence either, because the coach is too proud of his "masterstroke". It's a lose-lose situation.

Most KPP are just hitting their straps at 23.

Naughton is 23 and turning 24 this year, and the only thing he's hitting are members of the crowd 20 meters off the goalposts.

 

[doggies ftw]

This might be true, but he's been playing as a forward for 5 years now, and hasn't demonstrated any improvement since 2021. He still has the same flaws in his game, and right now he's in a particularly bad form slump. His kicking for goal, a fairly straightforward fundamental skill for a forward, has gotten even worse this year, and it has always been a significant weakness for him.

If he's going to remain as a forward, at the bare minimum you'd want different coaches helping him develop his game, starting with the head coach. This is highly unlikely to happen as Beveridge is contracted for 2 years, and still seems to have plenty of power over football operations. Because of this, it's highly unlikely he will be tried in defence either, because the coach is too proud of his "masterstroke". It's a lose-lose situation.


Naughton is 23 and turning 24 this year, and the only thing he's hitting are members of the crowd 20 meters off the goalposts.

This is just factually incorrect and has been pointed out in here already- in 2021 he was literally completely mark & goal or nothing, in ‘22 he brought in goals from general play into his game. In 2023 he’s now added goal assists, in which he is elite, he’s also now just about a lock from right or left foot snaps from right angles (when he was basically incapable of these kicks early in his career)

He’s yet to put it all together in one season but to say he hasn’t improved any parts of his game is just wrong.

I agree that we need to support him more in regards to coaches but this isn’t his fault, and we need to do the same for Marra. All good to complain that he’s not Cameron or Hawkins but he’s literally our best key forward since one season of Barry Hall and before then??? If it was so easy to find key forwards at that level maybe we would have had one in the last two decades?

 

[Conception]

This is just factually incorrect and has been pointed out in here already- in 2021 he was literally completely mark & goal or nothing, in ‘22 he brought in goals from general play into his game. In 2023 he’s now added goal assists, in which he is elite, he’s also now just about a lock from right or left foot snaps from right angles (when he was basically incapable of these kicks early in his career)

I asked this before but didn't get an answer. Which teams is he racking up stats against?
The main problem with Naughton is that he goes missing in big games or against quality opposition.
Goal assist numbers alone do not reflect how damaging a player is. When Naughton gets the ball at half forward, there isn't nearly the same level of danger for the opposition as there would be if it was a Hawkins or even a Mihocek. I can't visually recall Naughton's assists but I am willing to bet most of them were simple executions, and that most of them came against weak opposition (aka the games we've won).

Either way, no matter how many stats you point out, I'm clearly not the only one here who sees a defender being played up forward. His goal tally is a testament to his marking ability and attack on ball, but I think he'd be better in defence.

I agree that we need to support him more in regards to coaches but this isn’t his fault, and we need to do the same for Marra. All good to complain that he’s not Cameron or Hawkins but he’s literally our best key forward since one season of Barry Hall and before then??? If it was so easy to find key forwards at that level maybe we would have had one in the last two decades?

Well, we have plenty of options now. I would rather commit to Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as our two key-forwards from this point onwards, with Lobb and maybe Bruce assisting with the transition. Naughton to the backline to be our version of Rance/Moore/McGovern.

Literally our best key forward since Barry Hall? It could also be said that he's our best key defender since Brian Lake... at a time we have a huge issue with defenders. That being said, the defensive system will never be fixed while Beveridge is the coach, even with Naughton, so my preference aside, it's a moot point.

 

[doggies ftw]

I asked this before but didn't get an answer. Which teams is he racking up stats against?
The main problem with Naughton is that he goes missing in big games or against quality opposition.
Goal assist numbers alone do not reflect how damaging a player is. When Naughton gets the ball at half forward, there isn't nearly the same level of danger for the opposition as there would be if it was a Hawkins or even a Mihocek. I can't visually recall Naughton's assists but I am willing to bet most of them were simple executions, and that most of them came against weak opposition (aka the games we've won).

Either way, no matter how many stats you point out, I'm clearly not the only one here who sees a defender being played up forward. His goal tally is a testament to his marking ability and attack on ball, but I think he'd be better in defence.


Well, we have plenty of options now. I would rather commit to Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as our two key-forwards from this point onwards, with Lobb and maybe Bruce assisting with the transition. Naughton to the backline to be our version of Rance/Moore/McGovern.

Literally our best key forward since Barry Hall? It could also be said that he's our best key defender since Brian Lake... at a time we have a huge issue with defenders. That being said, the defensive system will never be fixed while Beveridge is the coach, even with Naughton, so my preference aside, it's a moot point.

Mate every forward in the leagues stats are tilted towards performing a lot better against bottom teams than top. Considering we have a 3-14 record (or something like this IIRC) against top 8 sides over the past two years this is not surprising. We get killed by good sides and it’s unrealistic to expect our FF to drag us across the line when the rest of our side is getting slaughtered and ball movement is non existent. He had a pretty bloody good final series in 21 too btw.

He’s also the sort of player where his impact on a game can’t be judged on goals alone because he has more influence on a game at ground level than just about any other key forward in the game.

Darcy is one of the most talented kids I’ve ever seen at the dogs but he is a mile off being ready it’s not even worth bringing him up. Bruce & Lobb lol yeah no thanks. So it’s just Marra, who is going brilliantly - take Naughty out and I dare say his life wouldn’t be so easy taking the Mays, AAs, SDKs of the comp. Marra is coming along great as is why would we change this and make his life harder when he’s still developing.

Yes he’s literally our best KPF since Hall, I guess you could say he’s our best key defender since Lake but you’d be wrong, I mean he’s played one season there 5 years ago so what is this based on? Maybes? Maybe he could be a gun defender, sure maybe he could. Maybe he could kick 75 goals next year? Maybe he could kick 150 who flipping knows. All we do know is he literally is the best forward we’ve had in a decade, there’s no maybes there.

We both agree that none of this matters whilst Bev is coach anyway, play him on the flipping wing for all I care at this point. But providing we put the right support around their development aiming to build around Marra FF, Naughty CHF and Darcy replacing Lobb as fwd/ruck for the next 10 years is clearly the path most likely to take us to a flag IMO, even if Naughty back may make us more competitive short term it’s probably not going to win us a flag which is the goal. If in 3 years Marra & Darcy are actually firing and Croft is coming through then sure send him to defence then - but thats currently a pipe dream, and the thought of going back to relying on a couple of inconsistent kids & the likes of Bruce or Lobb, yeah no thanks

Maybe we can bring back Cordy, let’s not forget that he was genuinely our key forward last year… we’re not exactly flush with good, mature options.

 

[thegcat]

Never seen a more natural CHB in my life. Absolute tragedy that he wasting his career up forward. He is McGovern (from West Coast), a more athletic version

 

[scooter600x]

In this year’s Coleman, Naughton is behind Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

, Nick Larkey

20

Nick Larkey

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.5

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.5

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

, Brodie Mihocek and Joe Daniher.

He’s one goal ahead of a totally cooked Jack Riewoldt.

He’s not a gun KPF at all. Send him back to his true position.

 

[TiAn_]

Yes we do. We have Lobb, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and Darcy as key-forward options. The latter two have 10 years of their career ahead of them. You could say "but they don't give us what Naughton gives" - so what? That's what time and patience is for. If the club had any brains, this year should now be classified as a rebuilding year, and we should be exploring ways to get the best out of our team in future years.

There isn't a big red button with "REBUILD" written on it that the football department can press and suddenly the bottom 6 players on our list are immediately replaced and bringing in Lobb and Jones is reversed, now that we're 7-6 at Rd 13 and not playing as well as expected. I can't put any stock in this as a pretence for this discussion. Darcy has barely played in two months, by the way.

This argument goes both ways. I'm sure Alex Rance could've been a very good 40+ goal a year full forward if he played there. Darcy Moore probably could've gotten to that level eventually if he was kept as a forward. Same with Jeremy McGovern, etc.

Moore was by far the best of those three, spent three and a bit years forward and managed all of a 25 goal season as a 21 year old. Naughton kicked 32 at 19 years old and 47 at 21. None of them spent enough time or were good enough to become the focal point of an attack that defences strategise against every single week. And despite that, Naughton is still better performed than all of them.

The argument doesn’t go both ways when one side has history and reality and the other hypotheticals.

At the end of the day, it's much better to get the absolute best out of a player, rather than get sucked into the idea that if a player can kick 45-50 goals a year, he must play forward. Naughton is a supreme athlete, a great mark and has great groundwork for a guy of his height, but he does not possess good forward instincts, often finds himself in situations where he doesn't know what to do, can't kick for goal and interrupts teammates' marking contests. A guy like him brings much more value to a defence, where he can interrupt opposition marks instead, and intercept every ball they try to kick forward.

Even the king of magnet spinners Kevin Sheedy couldn't leave Scott Lucas at CHB for more than a few weeks over about two seasons. I suspect this thinking is a Bulldogs supporter thing because of Whitten and Grant and only ever having one champion that had to plug every hole.

I get that most people when going down the path you're going down just envisage highlight reels of Naughton taking 12 contested intercept marks every week, but the reality is he'd spend most of the game hanging off Tom Hawkins or Charlie Curnow, chasing Jack Lukosius on leads and being clattered into by Ryan Gardner. Call me insane, but I think the "absolute best" use for a bloke that can already kick 2+ a game at his age sharing the forward line with a raw 21 year old is for him to keep kicking 2 goals a week, and try and make it 3. Not getting spoils in on Mabior Chol. Teams are already falling all over themselves to bring him in next year and it’s not to be a defender.

Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron set the example of what a top quality forward should be. Like Naughton, they are great at marking and winning 1v1, but unlike Naughton, they are intelligent forwards, always know what they're doing, just as dangerous creatively as they are at scoring, and they can kick. Naughton isn't even half the key forward either of those two are, and yet he's supposed to be our single most important forward in our lineup? So mission-critical to our success that we simply cannot afford him to not play there? At that point, it should be clear there is something very wrong with the way this team has been constructed and developed over the years.

A lot of your criticisms outside of goal kicking seem extremely “vibes” to me and comparing him unfavourably to hall of famers like Hawkins and Cameron isn’t a compelling argument. Also, he’s not “supposed to be”, he literally already is our most critical forward. By the length of the Flemington straight. You are proposing to replace that with a 31 year old coming off an ACL that kicked 1 goal in his last 5 games as a forward and a 208cm 20 year old with a hole in his lung and 10 career goals at VFL level (who himself kicked a deadeye 1.5 in his most recent game, just FYI).

Agree there are problems with development, but pulling the rug on one of the things that’s worked beyond any reasonable expectation to start from scratch again just doesn’t seem logical at all.

 

[immortalmike]

There isn't a big red button with "REBUILD" written on it that the football department can press and suddenly the bottom 6 players on our list are immediately replaced and bringing in Lobb and Jones is reversed, now that we're 7-6 at Rd 13 and not playing as well as expected. I can't put any stock in this as a pretence for this discussion. Darcy has barely played in two months, by the way.



Moore was by far the best of those three, spent three and a bit years forward and managed all of a 25 goal season as a 21 year old. Naughton kicked 32 at 19 years old and 47 at 21. None of them spent enough time or were good enough to become the focal point of an attack that defences strategise against every single week. And despite that, Naughton is still better performed than all of them.

The argument doesn’t go both ways when one side has history and reality and the other hypotheticals.



Even the king of magnet spinners Kevin Sheedy couldn't leave Scott Lucas at CHB for more than a few weeks over about two seasons. I suspect this thinking is a Bulldogs supporter thing because of Whitten and Grant and only ever having one champion that had to plug every hole.

I get that most people when going down the path you're going down just envisage highlight reels of Naughton taking 12 contested intercept marks every week, but the reality is he'd spend most of the game hanging off Tom Hawkins or Charlie Curnow, chasing Jack Lukosius on leads and being clattered into by Ryan Gardner. Call me insane, but I think the "absolute best" use for a bloke that can already kick 2+ a game at his age sharing the forward line with a raw 21 year old is for him to keep kicking 2 goals a week, and try and make it 3. Not getting spoils in on Mabior Chol. Teams are already falling all over themselves to bring him in next year and it’s not to be a defender.



A lot of your criticisms outside of goal kicking seem extremely “vibes” to me and comparing him unfavourably to hall of famers like Hawkins and Cameron isn’t a compelling argument. Also, he’s not “supposed to be”, he literally already is our most critical forward. By the length of the Flemington straight. You are proposing to replace that with a 31 year old coming off an ACL that kicked 1 goal in his last 5 games as a forward and a 208cm 20 year old with a hole in his lung and 10 career goals at VFL level (who himself kicked a deadeye 1.5 in his most recent game, just FYI).

Agree there are problems with development, but pulling the rug on one of the things that’s worked beyond any reasonable expectation to start from scratch again just doesn’t seem logical at all.

Don't you get it. Teams have "figured him out"! Whatever the **** that means.
So the only option is to play him in a position he hasn't played since he was a teenager. Not you know coach him, work with him, help him learn how to impact when things aren't going his way.

 

[geoffjennings79]

I'm on the fence with the Naughton forward/back debate.

But I will say Bruce has more nous to decide when to go for his own mark, or block for a team-mate. It's no coincidence our forward line functioned better with a pre-ACL Bruce up there.
I think he would work well with JUH/Lobb.

Two of our major issues (apart from set shot accuracy) is talls flying for the same marks, and Weightman also competing with our talls in the air. Bruce is also a more reliable set shot.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

I noticed Weightman not flying for as many on Friday night

 

[Freshwater]

I noticed Weightman not flying for as many on Friday night

He was still flopping though. My wife is sick of me talking about it and when he put extra ‘mayo’ on that first one on Friday night, she looked my way and nodded.

 

[geoffjennings79]

I noticed Weightman not flying for as many on Friday night

He's a good mark for his size, but needs to stay down when there's a KPF in the van.

 

[TiAn_]

Don't you get it. Teams have "figured him out"! Whatever the * that means.
So the only option is to play him in a position he hasn't played since he was a teenager. Not you know coach him, work with him, help him learn how to impact when things aren't going his way.

It seems unlikely that he’s maxed out his ability as a forward at at 23 years old. Meanwhile, 21 year old “natural” forward Marra (who I’m hopeful will be a gun, this isn’t a criticism) has kicked 14.19 at barely more than a goal a game and we’re supposed to hand him the keys to the forward line on a hope and a prayer.

 

[Chalky White]

Larkey, who a lot of us would suggest isn't fit to carry Naughtons boots has 34 goals in a bad team.
Make that 35 as in watching. Because the campaigner kicks straight, leads well and presents.
It's not rocket science, Naughton can't do basic forward things.

 

[Conception]

Moore was by far the best of those three, spent three and a bit years forward and managed all of a 25 goal season as a 21 year old. Naughton kicked 32 at 19 years old and 47 at 21. None of them spent enough time or were good enough to become the focal point of an attack that defences strategise against every single week. And despite that, Naughton is still better performed than all of them.

You are missing the point. I am saying at the absolute peak of their abilities, these guys probably could've been at least somewhat prolific up forward if given a chance to settle there. Anyone who was as good at marking the ball like Rance was could easily kick 40-50 goals a season- it really doesn't matter if he hadn't done so early in his career. Richmond just identified early on that his skillset was optimized for defence, not as a forward. At the end of his career, anyone with a functioning brain can see he brought FAR more value to Richmond as a defender than he could've as a forward. Even if there was a guarantee he could be a 50-60 goal forward, Richmond would've still preferred him in defence every day of the week.

Yeah, Naughton became a pretty prolific goalkicker early in his career, but for me, that's a testament to his athleticism and marking ability alone. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a better forward than he is a defender. People can have their own opinions on this but his recent form and playing habits are very reflective of a defender playing up forward, as is his consistently terrible kicking for goal.

 

[Conception]

I get that most people when going down the path you're going down just envisage highlight reels of Naughton taking 12 contested intercept marks every week, but the reality is he'd spend most of the game hanging off Tom Hawkins or Charlie Curnow, chasing Jack Lukosius on leads and being clattered into by Ryan Gardner. Call me insane, but I think the "absolute best" use for a bloke that can already kick 2+ a game at his age sharing the forward line with a raw 21 year old is for him to keep kicking 2 goals a week, and try and make it 3. Not getting spoils in on Mabior Chol. Teams are already falling all over themselves to bring him in next year and it’s not to be a defender.

What? How is that "the reality"? What makes you think he can't become an Alex Rance/Darcy Moore/Easton Wood type of intercept beast? That's exactly what his best attributes were prior to being drafted: his marking and intercept game.

 

[Conception]

It seems unlikely that he’s maxed out his ability as a forward at at 23 years old. Meanwhile, 21 year old “natural” forward Marra (who I’m hopeful will be a gun, this isn’t a criticism) has kicked 14.19 at barely more than a goal a game and we’re supposed to hand him the keys to the forward line on a hope and a prayer.

Do you seriously not understand the fact that certain players develop at different rates?
Naughton was a physically ready-made player from the start and was taking contested marks against bigger men in the WAFL before getting drafted. Silly to compare him to Ugle-Hagan, who didn't get to play any football in his last U18 year.

 

[Conception]

Don't you get it. Teams have "figured him out"! Whatever the * that means.
So the only option is to play him in a position he hasn't played since he was a teenager. Not you know coach him, work with him, help him learn how to impact when things aren't going his way.

It's very self-explanatory, but I suppose some people have trouble understanding simple things.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Marra and Darcy are going to go straight past him in the next two years.

Is he even going to be needed in the forward line?

 

[doggies ftw]

Marra and Darcy are going to go straight past him in the next two years.

Is he even going to be needed in the forward line?

Well If they do (and as good as they look, that’s still a big if and quite some time away) we’ll win a threepeat tbh, 2x 50 goal KPFs are better than 1, and 3x 50 goal KPFs are better than 2…

There’s plenty room for all 3 considering Darcy will be needed to chop out the ruck