Traded Adam Saad [traded to Carlton with #48 and #78 for #8 and #87]

[zeggie]

You don't have anyone who plays like Saad, that's kind of the point of bringing him in. He's a reliable defender who can negate an opposition player and break lines with his run and carry. He's also been extremely durable historically.

You'll get exactly what you expect with him.

You keep calling Williams transformative; yet it's based on a specific sample size of a handful of games largely played at the end of 2019, and assuming he can replicate that across an entire AFL season, whilst avoiding the injuries that have impacted his ability to get on the park. He's also about 6'0" tall.

I'm not entirely convinced you actually know who Zac Williams is.

We'll happily take whatever "risks" exist with both.

Probably why we've chased them both, and both have nominated us.

 

[zeggie]

You guys??

Carlton are entitled to pay as hardball as they like and other clubs are entitled to play by the rules they set for how they want to play.

All the essendon drones in here sound alike. For a moment I thought you were one of them.

They can play hardball all they like. Can't see anyone else taking Saad, sight unseen, no medical, with pick 1-6 in the ND. End of story

 

[Brutalitops]

I'll pretend your condescending tone isn't there. All teams are going to draft players that don't have a choice where they are going and paying them a fraction of what Saad will earn next year playing somewhere in Melbourne.

If/When the negotiation between Essendon and Carlton starts to stall his manager will take phone calls from clubs making offers. It's really common.

Usually that results in the player going to the club they wanted initially for a higher price. Sometimes the club doesn't make the trade at all and very rarely the player gets through to the PSD.

Unfortunately that option won't be there this season because of the cap space being cleared by North ahead of you in the draft order.

This isn't a Mitch Clark situation. He isn't trying to get home and ends up on a bigger deal in a different city. He doesn't even have to move house.

Players they have met with, yes. They dont draft site unseen. He wont meet with them.

Just like Joes manager last year. Or Martins. Yeah, i dont think its common at all after theyve nominated and I dont think its gonna happen. We advised the Saad camp that initial negotiations were miles apart. Their response was to say publicly that he'll go to the draft. Wasnt interested in exploring other options.

North arent likely to draft a guy who doesnt want to be there. It'll upset their culture and influence the influx of young draftees as they rebuild. No matter how well they handled the Daw incident who they promptly delisted once they were able.

 

[chelseacarlton]

You don't have anyone who plays like Saad, that's kind of the point of bringing him in. He's a reliable defender who can negate an opposition player and break lines with his run and carry. He's also been extremely durable historically.

You'll get exactly what you expect with him.

You keep calling Williams transformative; yet it's based on a specific sample size of a handful of games largely played at the end of 2019, and assuming he can replicate that across an entire AFL season, whilst avoiding the injuries that have impacted his ability to get on the park. He's also about 6'0" tall.

I'm not entirely convinced you actually know who Zac Williams is.

I know exactly whom Zachary Williams

6

Zachary Williams

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.1

5star

MG

394.4

5star

D

15.0

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

296.0

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

is, perhaps you’re confusing your Zacs, Zacks and Zachs?
I know we’ll get a quality player in Saad and you will get adequate compensation, just not pick 7!
Agreed?

 

[Monkey King]

I didn't bring up mental health.

I said it was all about money.

Doesn't matter if you initiated the topic, you commented on it in a specific context and that is what I was referencing.

 

[PMBangers]

All the essendon drones in here sound alike. For a moment I thought you were one of them.

They can play hardball all they like. Can't see anyone else taking Saad, sight unseen, no medical, with pick 1-6 in the ND. End of story

Overall the back forth from both sides is pretty same same in all honesty, Essendon fans want compensation they see as fair, Carlton fans want to pay what they see as fair, those are naturally different valuations. So really stones and glass houses

 

[faible]

Overall the back forth from both sides is pretty same same in all honesty, Essendon fans want compensation they see as fair, Carlton fans want to pay what they see as fair, those are naturally different valuations. So really stones and glass houses

Generally, if the player is wanted, the trade should leave both sides feeling somewhat unhappy. If Carlton got Saad for 27 you'd see Carlton fans traipsing around saying what a bargain they've gotten. Probably says a lot about whether posters are being genuine in their intentions or not.

 

[bmaurizio]

Really think pick 7 is too high and 27 too low. Normally these situations get resolved and a trade happens. Think Carlton will split the 7 and the Bombers will get a 15-18 instead or the Bombers will get a 16 or so for Daniher and swap Saad plus 16 for the 7.

Very reasonable and I agree with you, hopefully it gets done quickly.

 

[andleanback]

What needle?

Williams will be more transformative. Stats aren't everything. Key example? Daniher. "you've built your team around" "worth 2 firsts" to quote another poster, but barely been on the park in 3 entire years.

Williams is low risk. RFA. No picks used.

Saad is a higher risk, will cost us a pick.

Saad is a HBF which are dime a dozen, but we like him and want him.

End of the day, can't see you guys getting pick 7 alone

How is saad dime a dozen, how many half backs are there with elite line breaking speed, that can use the ball well by foot and also defend 1 on 1. Plenty of players have speed but not many have the confidence to use it. Name me 20 in the league currently if they are ‘dime a dozen’

 

[Monkey King]

Yeah but that's only if you're valuing it based on points. I personally think pick 7 for Saad and pick 16 is more valuable than trading Saad for pick 27.

And I'm sure every list manager would agree with you.

The draft value index has little to no validity outside of F/S and academy picks involvement. Picks 27 & 28 are valued at pick 10 under the index, which isn't a trade you'll see any time soon. The closest we've seen was 26, 28 and 40 (index value pick 5-6) for pick 13, and that was wholly predicated on the Swans needing draft points for Blakey.

The index actually seems kind of arbitrary. The AFL should pay a statistician to use trade history data to create an index that is more grounded in reality.

 

[Brutalitops]

How is saad dime a dozen, how many half backs are there with elite line breaking speed, that can use the ball well by foot and also defend 1 on 1. Plenty of players have speed but not many have the confidence to use it. Name me 20 in the league currently if they are ‘dime a dozen’

Markov, Touhy, Hibberd are a couple just off the top of my head.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Overall the back forth from both sides is pretty same same in all honesty, Essendon fans want compensation they see as fair, Carlton fans want to pay what they see as fair, those are naturally different valuations. So really stones and glass houses

So kinda like being a TikTok enthusiast?

 

[PMBangers]

So kinda like being a TikTok enthusiast?

Being a TikTok enthusiast is same same? I want fair compensation for TikToks?

 

[PMBangers]

Markov, Touhy, Hibberd are a couple just off the top of my head.

I'd say that's wildly over rating Markov and Hibberd, Hibberd doesn't have the speed he used to and Markov's kicking can be shaky

 

[chelseacarlton]

Being a TikTok enthusiast is same same? I want fair compensation for TikToks?

Lol, nah, yeahhhh.... tiktok is not same same at all, every individual video is completely original on every level!
Gimme a ****ing break and the forum, please?!

 

[Brutalitops]

I'd say that's wildly over rating Markov and Hibberd, Hibberd doesn't have the speed he used to and Markov's kicking can be shaky

Markov I rate one on one and Im not bringing kicking into it because Saads disposal isnt great to begin with. Hibberd was clocked at 34.6km/h in round 12 against Collingwood his top speed this season. Saads top speed was 34.1km/h against Sydney round 2.

While im putting it out there, Touhy's top speed was 34.5km/h vs Collingwood, round 7. What did he go for in a trade?

 

[PMBangers]

While im putting it out there, Touhy's top speed was 34.5km/h vs Collingwood, round 7. What did he go for in a trade?

A future first and a fringe player, going with a second rounder, I'm not sure that's quite the trade you're looking for right?

Markov I rate one on one and Im not bringing kicking into it because Saads disposal isnt great to begin with. Hibberd was clocked at 34.6km/h in round 12 against Collingwood his top speed this season. Saads top speed was 34.1km/h against Sydney round 2.

Fair enough, I also like Markov one on one, surprised by the Hibberd top speed feels like he's lost it a bit, maybe just not using it as much

 

[PMBangers]

Lol, nah, yeahhhh.... tiktok is not same same at all, every individual video is completely original on every level!
Gimme a ******* break and the forum, please?!

Just calm down and breath, I wasn't having a go at you

What do you think the deal to get Saad across will look like?

 

[Brutalitops]

A future first and a fringe player, going with a second rounder, I'm not sure that's quite the trade you're looking for right?

A much later first. But ive already stated a first for Saad bringing a future second in his pocket. Im consistent.

Fair enough, I also like Markov one on one, surprised by the Hibberd top speed feels like he's lost it a bit, maybe just not using it as much

I would think thats the case given Saad has multiple entries in his clubs top speed whereas Hibberd has the one. In case youre interested: https://www.bosshunting.com.au/sport/fastest-afl-players-2020/

 

[chelseacarlton]

Just calm down and breath, I wasn't having a go at you

What do you think the deal to get Saad across will look like?

I am calm, my breathing didn’t alter one iota, I save my socio/psycho side for the bay cheers, I spose?!
A pick in the teens.
Like almost everyone bar a few deluded bomber supporters and of course, Dodo.
Saad isn’t even worth a straight swap for Tom DeKoning, whom will be the best ruckman in the comp in several years, little own 7 and Walsh or Curnow or McKay etc.
Essendon are still stuck in early 2000’s, Dodo thinks winning every trade keeps his job secure, look at Stephen Wells, he keeps his team relevant and in contention every year, dodo ain’t a pimple on his arse!

 

[PMBangers]

A much later first. But ive already stated a first for Saad bringing a future second in his pocket. Im consistent.



I would think thats the case given Saad has multiple entries in his clubs top speed whereas Hibberd has the one. In case youre interested: https://www.bosshunting.com.au/sport/fastest-afl-players-2020/

Cheers for that link, not something I've seen. I think that's a reasonable expectation for Saad from you, can't say I remember too much of Tuohy back then so not sure how they compare quality wise

 

[Brutalitops]

Cheers for that link, not something I've seen. I think that's a reasonable expectation for Saad from you, can't say I remember too much of Tuohy back then so not sure how they compare quality wise

Saad better one on one, Touhy better by foot. Theyre both quality, it gets harder if you try and rate one over the other.

One thing regarding that stat of top speed, it doesnt give an indication of sustained top/elite speed. Thats something id be interested in as theres nothing to say measured at 1, 3, or 6 second intervals. Maybe one day they'll produce it. Its definitely there.

 

[LeppaMessiah]

I am calm, my breathing didn’t alter one iota, I save my socio/psycho side for the bay cheers, I spose?!
A pick in the teens.
Like almost everyone bar a few deluded bomber supporters and of course, Dodo.
Saad isn’t even worth a straight swap for Tom DeKoning, whom will be the best ruckman in the comp in several years, little own 7 and Walsh or Curnow or McKay etc.
Essendon are still stuck in early 2000’s, Dodo thinks winning every trade keeps his job secure, look at Stephen Wells, he keeps his team relevant and in contention every year, dodo ain’t a pimple on his arse!

Little own? Do you mean “let alone”?

 

[Saintsone]

Really think pick 7 is too high and 27 too low. Normally these situations get resolved and a trade happens. Think Carlton will split the 7 and the Bombers will get a 15-18 instead or the Bombers will get a 16 or so for Daniher and swap Saad plus 16 for the 7.

You think Saad and Daniher together are worth pick seven, what rock have you been living under

 

[dlb99]

You think Saad and Daniher together are worth pick seven, what rock have you been living under

You would have got pick 9 (2019) and pick 3 (2020) just for Daniher if you guys traded him last year......but Dodo totally doing as Dodo does stuffed it up.

This you will get much less for Daniher and Saad together.