Adam Simpson meets with AFL to discuss the inequalities that interstate teams put up with

[Farang83150]

Whoosh

Not surprised it went straight over your head.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not surprised it went straight over your head.

Brag of crap for 2nd prize

 

[kranky al]

I don't think i ever disputed that, did i?

I would nearly bet my house, that if i started agreeing with everything you said, you would say i was wrong.

Nah

 

[doppleganger]

It held a lot more fear for them than the mcg did I bet. West Coast only played at the mcg once that year before the grand final.

Players fear grounds now!? Talk about reaching.

The occasion got to the Eagles, but the Hawks has been in the previous 3...the Hawks just like Lions often saved their best for the GF.

You can live off the QF win as much as you want, but QF wins have as much relevance as a R3 game once you make a GF.

Ok, so finals pressure, finals experience, finals atmosphere, finals intensity - this terminology used by coaches, players, commentators mean nothing to you. A prelim final is on par with a h&A game? Lol

Most things commentators and players talk about are rubbish.

And yeah, there used to be a clear distinction between H&A and finals...you weren’t playing at VicPark in front of 30k, it was at the G or Waverley in front of 80k+

The crowd and atmosphere at Optus is finals like for H&A games compared to a 1/3 full MCG.

Yes mental preparation plays a part. Surely playing on your home ground with plenty of wins gives you more of a mental edge than having experienced a training session with extra fans. Or attending a Brownlow - which players do every year anyway. The only difference is that players involved in a grand final don’t get wasted.

No.
This is the point...a GF ain’t a normal game, having played 10 or 2 H&A games at the G doesn’t help prepare for a GF.

Some players are teams lift for the big occasion, others crumble.

You can’t even acknowledge that a Crows or Port team winning enough games to make it through to the grand final, would be the sides most advantaged by playing it at Adelaide oval.

It would be built up as mission impossible in Melbourne if it were to ever happen

LoL, how many finals have Port and Adelaide choked in when played in Adelaide?

Some teams just aren’t good enough to handle finals pressure...ground is irrelevant.

 

[doppleganger]

How many of those gfs have you over acheived to get there?

I look back at our gfs - look at 2015 and think we way overacheived - we werent close to the first or second best team out there.

I dont look at that as one that got away - i look at it purely as “ah well it prepped us for a coupla years later”

I look at quite a few of your grannies you lost the same way - your team got there on grit but werent the second or the best team in it and it showed in the end.

We can argue all we like about the mcg being the gf venue - but heres the kicker

If i go to a uk, german, us or any other countries national sporting forum - and post up our situation here with how the gf is at some clubs home ground.

Ill bet money that they will all say - hang on - thats not very fair

Then you come back to this board - and see the ones defending it are the same old suspects in every thread. Mcg tenants.

Ask a German or UK fan and they would say why isn’t the team that finishes on top of the table the champion!?

VFL introduced finals to generate extra interest and make extra money...it was never about fairness.

The sooner you WA fans actually grasp that, the quicker everyone can move on.

 

[McOrist]

Since AFL began in 1990, there have been 9 non-Vic Premiers that defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final. There have been 8 Vic Premiers that defeated a non-Vic team in Grand Final.
If you're good enough, you'll win.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Ask a German or UK fan and they would say why isn’t the team that finishes on top of the table the champion!?

VFL introduced finals to generate extra interest and make extra money...it was never about fairness.

The sooner you WA fans actually grasp that, the quicker everyone can move on.

We don’t need to grasp it, we have also been playing finals for over 100 years. Not like it’s a new thing to us. GF always at Subiaco as it had the largest capacity. Now that sounds familiar doesn’t it.

 

[bh90210fan]

Players fear grounds now!? Talk about reaching.

The occasion got to the Eagles, but the Hawks has been in the previous 3...the Hawks just like Lions often saved their best for the GF.

You can live off the QF win as much as you want, but QF wins have as much relevance as a R3 game once you make a GF.


Most things commentators and players talk about are rubbish.

And yeah, there used to be a clear distinction between H&A and finals...you weren’t playing at VicPark in front of 30k, it was at the G or Waverley in front of 80k+

The crowd and atmosphere at Optus is finals like for H&A games compared to a 1/3 full MCG.


No.
This is the point...a GF ain’t a normal game, having played 10 or 2 H&A games at the G doesn’t help prepare for a GF.

Some players are teams lift for the big occasion, others crumble.


LoL, how many finals have Port and Adelaide choked in when played in Adelaide?

Some teams just aren’t good enough to handle finals pressure...ground is irrelevant.

So a prelim final is no different to a h&a game

The proven ability to stay sober at a Brownlow event gives players a mental edge for grand final day.

Playing and winning Anzac Day games, queens birthday, Dreamtime matches, cutthroat finals at your home ground doesn’t.

West coast beating Collingwood for the first time in 20 odd years at the mcg during the regular season wouldn’t have helped them at all. But previous experience at sitting in the back of a ute would’ve helped them immensely.

Playing a grand final at Adelaide oval wouldn’t advantage the Adelaide teams.

Ok gotcha

 

[kranky al]

Players fear grounds now!? Talk about reaching.

The occasion got to the Eagles, but the Hawks has been in the previous 3...the Hawks just like Lions often saved their best for the GF.

You can live off the QF win as much as you want, but QF wins have as much relevance as a R3 game once you make a GF.


Most things commentators and players talk about are rubbish.

And yeah, there used to be a clear distinction between H&A and finals...you weren’t playing at VicPark in front of 30k, it was at the G or Waverley in front of 80k+

The crowd and atmosphere at Optus is finals like for H&A games compared to a 1/3 full MCG.


No.
This is the point...a GF ain’t a normal game, having played 10 or 2 H&A games at the G doesn’t help prepare for a GF.

Some players are teams lift for the big occasion, others crumble.


LoL, how many finals have Port and Adelaide choked in when played in Adelaide?

Some teams just aren’t good enough to handle finals pressure...ground is irrelevant.

I love how you mob brag about being the biggest club in the land wankitty wank

Yet you cant even 1/3rd fill the mcg.

 

[doppleganger]

We don’t need to grasp it, we have also been playing finals for over 100 years. Not like it’s a new thing to us. GF always at Subiaco as it had the largest capacity. Now that sounds familiar doesn’t it.

A couple of your fellow Eagle fans fail to grasp it.

 

[kranky al]

A couple of your fellow Eagle fans fail to grasp it.

So does the rest of world sport apparently

 

[doppleganger]

So a prelim final is no different to a h&a game

The proven ability to stay sober at a Brownlow event gives players a mental edge for grand final day.

Playing and winning Anzac Day games, queens birthday, Dreamtime matches, cutthroat finals at your home ground doesn’t.

West coast beating Collingwood for the first time in 20 odd years at the mcg during the regular season wouldn’t have helped them at all. But previous experience at sitting in the back of a ute would’ve helped them immensely.

Playing a grand final at Adelaide oval wouldn’t advantage the Adelaide teams.

Ok gotcha

LeL.

WC being better than Collingwood, and having players who had experienced a GF, is why WC are premiers.

WC not being better than Hawthorn in 2015 or 1991 is why they weren’t premiers.

Sydney were beaten by Dogs in HA in Sydney andnon GF day, Dogs had their measure in 2016.

Hawks were better than Freo, and were out for revenge in 2014 after losing 2012.

The best team tends to win...funny that.

So it appears the only real problem is Adelaide choking.

But, Adelaide and Port are notorious for choking in finals, predominantly at home...

Port 01,02,03 and then Adelaide 05,06 they were great times as when they choked in finals back then we all got to laugh...not just listen to dribble about how ‘unfair’ it was where the game was played and dribble about ‘earning’ home GFs.

 

[doppleganger]

I love how you mob brag about being the biggest club in the land wankitty wank

Yet you cant even 1/3rd fill the mcg.

Yeah, I agree.

We actually had a huge HGA back at VicPark when it was 30k fans jammed in like sardines.

We have lost this advantage when moved to the G.

 

[bh90210fan]

LeL.

WC being better than Collingwood, and having players who had experienced a GF, is why WC are premiers.

WC not being better than Hawthorn in 2015 or 1991 is why they weren’t premiers.

Sydney were beaten by Dogs in HA in Sydney andnon GF day, Dogs had their measure in 2016.

Hawks were better than Freo, and were out for revenge in 2014 after losing 2012.

The best team tends to win...funny that.

So it appears the only real problem is Adelaide choking.

But, Adelaide and Port are notorious for choking in finals, predominantly at home...

Port 01,02,03 and then Adelaide 05,06 they were great times as when they choked in finals back then we all got to laugh...not just listen to dribble about how ‘unfair’ it was where the game was played and dribble about ‘earning’ home GFs.

Both port and Adelaide’s home finals record are much better than their mcg record. Funny that.

When’s the last time the crows have lost a final at Adelaide oval?

I’m not arguing over which sides were the best in previous grand finals - the argument is the advantage a Mcg tenant holds over a visiting team on grand final day. Which you don’t want to acknowledge. I understand why you don’t wish to, although a bit strange when you come out with the value of minor advantages, like the value of experience dealing with extra fans at a training session in grand final week. Then dismissing advantages such as playing a grand final on your home ground.

 

[doppleganger]

So does the rest of world sport apparently

Kranky signature move.

After failing to acknowledge the origin of finals in our sport, he then randomly refers to other sports who have different historical reasons for setting up seasons the way they do.

VFL had a clean double round robin season and a single ladder...the soccer league set-up, but still went ahead with finals...purely for $$.

US sports don’t have double round robin systems and a single ladder, they have divisional ladders, completely different leagues with different rules, and hence require a playoff type of system to actually validate which team is champion.

The NFL has 8 divisional champions, how many does AFL have?

 

[Colonial]

Yeah, I agree.

We actually had a huge HGA back at VicPark when it was 30k fans jammed in like sardines.

We have lost this advantage when moved to the G.

Lost the AGD(away ground disadvantage) to.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[LoungeLizard]

Both port and Adelaide’s home finals record are much better than their mcg record. Funny that.

When’s the last time the crows have lost a final at Adelaide oval?

I’m not arguing over which sides were the best in previous grand finals - the argument is the advantage a Mcg tenant holds over a visiting team on grand final day. Which you don’t want to acknowledge. I understand why you don’t wish to, although a bit strange when you come out with the value of minor advantages, like the value of experience dealing with extra fans at a training session in grand final week. Then dismissing advantages such as playing a grand final on your home ground.

You have said the same thing now, i would guess 50 times.

I am one that agrees the tenants have an advantage.

But at the moment there is no stat that says how big it is, in fact at the moment, the stats have non-Vics in front.
So until we get a larger view, we just don't know what the advantage is.

 

[bh90210fan]

You have said the same thing now, i would guess 50 times.

I am one that agrees the tenants have an advantage.

But at the moment there is no stat that says how big it is, in fact at the moment, the stats have non-Vics in front.
So until we get a larger view, we just don't know what the advantage is.

Exactly. At least most can agree

 

[LoungeLizard]

Exactly. At least most can agree

So do you see what a lot of people are arguing?

This crap about sleeping in your own bed, travel lessens careers etc.etc. because at the moment, there isn't proof that they even exist.

 

[bh90210fan]

So do you see what a lot of people are arguing?

This crap about sleeping in your own bed, travel lessens careers etc.etc. because at the moment, there isn't proof that they even exist.

I think there is enough evidence out there to safely say that travel can negatively impact athletes recovery, performance etc. As far as sleeping in your own bed, I guess it is a minor disadvantage.

I think most people would agree on those assumptions, just the severity of the impact is debatable.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I think there is enough evidence out there to safely say that travel can negatively impact athletes recovery, performance etc. As far as sleeping in your own bed, I guess it is a minor disadvantage.

I think most people would agree on those assumptions, just the severity of the impact is debatable.

Let me put this to you, living in you own town/suburb grand final week.

This could also be a negative, all the backslappers etc.


Being away from home lessens this, maybe it helps, we just don't know.

 

[bh90210fan]

Let me put this to you, living in you own town/suburb grand final week.

This could also be a negative, all the backslappers etc.


Being away from home lessens this, maybe it helps, we just don't know.

I bet if you asked 100 players if they’d fancy their chances of winning a final greater on their home ground, or on their oppositions home ground, you’d get 100 answers saying the same thing.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I bet if you asked 100 players if they’d fancy their chances of winning a final greater on their home ground, or on their oppositions home ground, you’d get 100 answers saying the same thing.

You may well be right, but, if we asked 100 players where they would rather play the grand final, i wonder what the % of answers would be.
Until we ask 100 players, we don't know.

 

[JackOutback]

LeL.

WC being better than Collingwood, and having players who had experienced a GF, is why WC are premiers.

WC not being better than Hawthorn in 2015 or 1991 is why they weren’t premiers.

Sydney were beaten by Dogs in HA in Sydney andnon GF day, Dogs had their measure in 2016.

Hawks were better than Freo, and were out for revenge in 2014 after losing 2012.

The best team tends to win...funny that.

So it appears the only real problem is Adelaide choking.

But, Adelaide and Port are notorious for choking in finals, predominantly at home...

Port 01,02,03 and then Adelaide 05,06 they were great times as when they choked in finals back then we all got to laugh...not just listen to dribble about how ‘unfair’ it was where the game was played and dribble about ‘earning’ home GFs.

Of course the best team on the day is premier. But the best team on the day is not always the best team of the season. And the ground and location on 'the day' does offer an advantage to some. How that is even in question beggars belief.

Let me put this to you, living in you own town/suburb grand final week.

This could also be a negative, all the backslappers etc.


Being away from home lessens this, maybe it helps, we just don't know.

You're reaching here.

 

[doppleganger]

Both port and Adelaide’s home finals record are much better than their mcg record. Funny that.

When’s the last time the crows have lost a final at Adelaide oval?

The first week of finals match 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 5 v 8 and 6 v 7.

When Adelaide are the higher ranked (better) team they have a better record....no sh1t.

Come GF they are 2-0 as the ‘lower’ ranked team, and 1-0 when ‘highest’

Adelaide’s win rate in GFs is better than their win rate at AAMI stadium in finals was!!

I’m not arguing over which sides were the best in previous grand finals - the argument is the advantage a Mcg tenant holds over a visiting team on grand final day. Which you don’t want to acknowledge. I understand why you don’t wish to, although a bit strange when you come out with the value of minor advantages, like the value of experience dealing with extra fans at a training session in grand final week. Then dismissing advantages such as playing a grand final on your home ground.

most betting models flag home ground advantage during the season at the G to be 9-12 points. They differ on whether this actually holds in a GF as the data set is too small to validate.

But what is home ground advantage?

People talk about ‘ground familiarity and consitions’...but HGA exists is large in sports like NBA where they play inside on exactly the same courts.

People talk about traveling being important, but VFL has greater HGA when travel wasn’t an issue, American studies all review that and again questionable findings...strongest being related to impacts to circadian rhythm but that is more for teams flying between multiple time zones day after day.

They also compared soccer stadiums with an athletic track between crowd and pitch, and they had less HGA than smaller stadiums where crowd was right up on the pitch.

Recovery and fatigue, another influence...but not a factor for AFL who play once a week.

The biggest factor appears to be ‘home cooking’ and the influence home crowds have on umpires making calls. Soccer the home teams are awarded more penalties, NBA home team goes to the line more, AFL the noise of affirmation.

In a GF one of the biggests factors of HGA is removed...and the actual results back that up, as nonMCG tenants win rate on GF day is much better compared to a regular game.

So yes the bleating and continual reference to H&A conditions as if they hold true for the GF is what I disagree with.

Also the notion that finals and GFs are supposed to be ‘fair’ and teams ‘earn’ home finals is absolute nonsense.