- Jun 11, 2013
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Not sure why, based on our track record of young players not really developing and therefore being heavily reliant on senior players to play on.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’
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RookiePick
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 13, 2014
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Who do you want picked in the side that we developed and is aged under 30?
Yeo? Allen? Duggan I guess for those who still think he's going to amount to more than a B-grade player. That's a pretty poor strike rate.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
The bit of my post you highlighted said he was rated highly within the industry. I’m not in the industry.
But he was in a development coach role between 2008 and … last year I think? You’re judging him on our current list, not on 13 years in the job.
In our 2018 premiership side we had 16 players who we drafted, not counting the three big names that missed out, or Allen and Nelson who were emergencies or Waterman who played 16 games that year or MacKenzie who missed the whole year through injury.
Of the guys we didn’t draft, Kennedy, Yeo and Cripps only had two years in the AFL system (and Kennedy spent those at Carlton which was barely in the AFL system). Only Redden, Jetta and Vardy came to the club fully developed as AFL players.
That might be a bit more indicative of his overall body of work.
Royalbeagle
Team Captain
- Jun 11, 2019
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WC have won 2 out of 12 games since the bye last year.
Look at the other teams and you will quickly see how far off they are with pace, skill, and commitment and hardness around the ball.
The most challenging rebuild of the clubs history is one that must be faced now rather than later.
Look at the other teams and you will quickly see how far off they are with pace, skill, and commitment and hardness around the ball.
The most challenging rebuild of the clubs history is one that must be faced now rather than later.
I agree and am in the same boat. Yesterday was a shit show but when I checked the stats for disposals this morning, I realised we hardly had a midfield out there. West is a role player (could be a hutchings replacement), Gaff is no onballer so that just left Redden (who is solid, but no A grader). We were then relying on part timers (SPS, Jones etc) which was not going to work. No wonder our defenders had most of the disposals.In the rage of watching yesterday, the irrational voice wanted to tear everything down, Sack Simmo etc. In the calm (er) light of day, how can we truly judge what if any changes have been made with the squad and selected team as it is right now? We are at Round 3… As painful as it is, I think we need to hold fire for at least a couple of months. If we do get some semblance of a Best 22 and are showing no noticeable improvement or change, thens the time for action surely.
We are unlucky that we have not played anyone decent (in that some wins have gone begging). On the flip side, I shudder to think of what our % would be had we played anyone decent thus far
We need to be smart and make sure we bring injured players back correctly and try to get good availability around May/June. It will be looking ugly in terms of win/loss by then, but so be it. We can then judge how the team performs after the bye and it gives them a great chance to develop young players and bed in the new gameplan.
RookiePick
Brownlow Medallist
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Sounds like he's got credits in the bank from your perspective.
The list management and our player development has been very poor. If you take the last 10 years of his tenure:
Donuts in 11
Donuts in 12
Gov and Barrass in 13
Duggan in 14 (arguably the floor of player performance to be considered a draft win)
Donuts in 15 (Cole is clutching at straws now)
Donuts in 16 (claiming Bell has anything to do with Willie's footballing ability would be a joke)
Allen in 17 (see Willie above for Ryan)
Donuts in 18
Donuts in 19
Donuts in 20
You have to be getting a Duggan level player, on average, every draft plus hit your AA calibre players every 2-3 years if you want to build a list that contend. The more AA calibre players you find the more Jacko Nelsons you can afford to carry in limited roles. Admittedly the '19 and '20 players are young and might develop from here. Checking my notes...maybe, maybe Luke Edwards might be a Duggan level player. Jamieson ain't gonna make it, nice kid though.
I think we've got close to hitting the target for our top end guys but the solid players that we need to surround them with, that need to be developed from within the footy club to make the salary cap work have been a dismal failure for a decade. If you want to shovel a few steaming piles onto the recruitment teams door-step as a defence of Bell I'll happily grab my gumboots and spade and help you out.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
You’re looking at drafting/recruiting. That wasn’t his job.
For the record I know bugger all about Bell, and I wouldn’t recognize him if I bumped into him in the street. It just gets my back up when people start talking about sacking club people when they know very little about what that person actually does and has done. These are actual human beings you’re talking about sending to the unemployment office, not abstract concepts.
If you don’t know what a development coach does, how long they’ve been in the job, whether they’re actually still in the job … maybe don’t start clamoring for them to be sacked. Same with the constant calls for O’Brien to be sacked by people who reckon Kelly was “right under his nose” in the WAFL. If you don’t know enough about the job the guy has done to know that he’s been based in Victoria the whole time, maybe you’re not qualified to say whether he should lose it.
RookiePick
Brownlow Medallist
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That is disingenuous. All of those players, and we are literally talking dozens over the decade, were impossible to develop into serviceable AFL players?
With all the performance data, combine results etc that are available on these hopefuls our recruiters happened upon so many that were simply unable to make it, irrespective of the development that was put into them?
I find that a very difficult position to occupy.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
If that’s your criteria, you’re marking extremely harshly if you think we’ve only drafted four guys who’ve become, or will become, “serviceable AFL players” in the past decade. If Cole is clutching at straws on that scale then you’ve set the bar too high.
Also not giving the development staff any credit for drafting Ryan as a stay-at-home undersized full forward and turning him into a strong-running weapon across the ground.
Anyway youve skipped over my main point which was - don’t call for an individual to be sacked when you don’t know enough to do that. You wouldn’t like someone posting that they came into your workplace and didn’t like the experience so you should be sacked. Why is ok to do that for footy staff?
To be honest, I am yet to see in 2022 any divergence away from the ineffective gameplan of seasons past.
Read over some of the season preview again and it's all too apparent that we are witnessing the same problems once again.
The appearance from the outside is of an unwillingness to change, despite being at odds with what is currently successful in the competition.
If that is the case, then Simpson is effectively excluding himself from being involved in the next period of success at the club.
The question then becomes more of how much time is the club willing to give before it acts.
Read over some of the season preview again and it's all too apparent that we are witnessing the same problems once again.
The appearance from the outside is of an unwillingness to change, despite being at odds with what is currently successful in the competition.
If that is the case, then Simpson is effectively excluding himself from being involved in the next period of success at the club.
The question then becomes more of how much time is the club willing to give before it acts.
RookiePick
Brownlow Medallist
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When did I call for him to be sacked?
I made a clear distinction between role players, serviceable players and aa level talent.
More than happy for you to point out players in
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
My apologies, that wasn’t you.
If he doesn't change then COVID has actually been a blessing for him. It gives him excuses for the first half of the year. If we get key players back for the second half, then questions will be asked if we don't perform. I don't think it would lead to a sacking but the pressure would be on for the start of 2023.
Given he is contracted until 2024, the earliest I could see him going is mid 2023 (so club only pays one year of his salary outside the soft cap as 2023 would already be budgeted for). I don't see that happening unless we finish outside the 8 this year and have a shocking start to 2023.
- Jun 11, 2013
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So the fact that I do know the guy, know people who’ve worked with him, and those who have left football because of the guy, plus the fact that most people talk on here about how our players seem to stagnate or go backwards once on our list, does that count in your esteemed opinion? Does the fact that most of the players who we draft that make it, usually get games straight away rather than develop on the list mean anything to you?
You may not agree with others opinions on here, but that doesn’t mean you know more than them. Just my opinion of course.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
Well it wasn’t clear from your original post asking how he still had a job that you knew him.
Particular since you didn’t seem to know he was no longer a development coach.
Development doesn’t just boil down to how many young kids have come good. Quality of drafting, and opportunities to play at AFL level are significant factors in how well our players develop. We’ve traded out of a lot of first rounds over the years and probably had some bad luck with guys like Venables, Cameron (and possibly Brander depending on your viewpoint).
I think if you’re critical of our drafting, trade strategy and non-selection of kids in recent years it’s a bit harsh to also be critical of development coaches.
I think if you’re critical of our drafting, trade strategy and non-selection of kids in recent years it’s a bit harsh to also be critical of development coaches.
Yeah....I wouldnt say our development has been top notch.....
Brander
Petrol
Anusworth
XON
At least more recently, I am GAGGING for one of our young players to come on and show improvement - they seem to stagnate.
But then you get your Harry Edwards types......tough to tell whether its development by the club or the player just having what it takes.
I thought Tony Micale was getting back involved with us?
Brander
Petrol
Anusworth
XON
At least more recently, I am GAGGING for one of our young players to come on and show improvement - they seem to stagnate.
But then you get your Harry Edwards types......tough to tell whether its development by the club or the player just having what it takes.
I thought Tony Micale was getting back involved with us?
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
You might be getting confused with Rob Wiley? He’s coaching the Beagles this year
I was lurking on the Port board, enjoying their misery......
A few of them really rate Schofield and are spewing they let him walk. Ready made replacement for Hinkley they reckon.
Still, hasn't seemed to make a dent of a difference going by the first 3 rounds.
Does Simmo completely rule the roost? Whats the point of new assistants if we dont change the game plan?
A few of them really rate Schofield and are spewing they let him walk. Ready made replacement for Hinkley they reckon.
Still, hasn't seemed to make a dent of a difference going by the first 3 rounds.
Does Simmo completely rule the roost? Whats the point of new assistants if we dont change the game plan?
Jaymie Graham must be a favorite now.
Surely we go Suma.
HoneyBadger35
They're not going to pick him, Mitch.
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In fairness, like him or not, if this losing run continues it’s hard to see Ken Judge keeping his job.
I haven't seen many coaches who have more than a ten game losing streak keep their jobs in history.
Miguel Sanchez
(Unique injury) TBC
Matthew Nicks lost his first 13 games.
Chris Fagan lost 10 straight games across the end of the 2017 season and the first eight rounds of the following season.
Leppitsch lost 10 straight during 2015 but kept his job the following year, when a 12 loss streak finished him off.
Sheedy lost 14 straight during 2006 but hung around another season.
Woosha lost 17 straight at Essendon in 2016, stayed on until 2020.
Rosco lost the first 10 games of 2016 (plus the prelim the previous year), hung around another few years.
McKenna had a 21 games losing streak across 2011 and 2012 but coached for two more years.
Stuart Dew has two separate streaks of 19 games and 10 games on his resume.
Primus lost 11 straight during 2011, was kept on for another year.
Plough Wallace lost 11 straight with the Tigers across 2006 and 2007, coached until 2009.
Brendan McCartney lost 11 straight at the end of his first year, did two more seasons.
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