News Adelaide Crows Camp Allegations and Rumors

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What the hell did the crows do to McClure as a child.
Did they bully him? Steal his lunch money?
Can't believe I actually clicked on the link to give his article more hits.

Journos keep coming back to it because no one has written the definitive article about it

They just chip away with a new nugget here and there mixed in with a bunch of rehashed stuff, still hunting for full version of events that is not forthcoming (until Jenkins gets delisted)

 

[Idontpullout]

Journos keep coming back to it because no one has written the definitive article about it

They just chip away with a new nugget here and there mixed in with a bunch of rehashed stuff, still hunting for full version of events that is not forthcoming (until Jenkins gets delisted)

Agree, this story will launch the "journo" career of Jenkins and be our new Kornes.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Surely you look at in the context of all the other sh*t that went down in that period for scale.

I'd put it well behind Hamstring awareness, woeful list management and a complete inability to develop players (I'm sure I missed something)

It just feels like it was a part of the problem, rather than the problem itself.

However I do admit, I think our players were mentally soft and are a result of our recruitment methods, so on reflection of some of the comments made by other posters about personal information being divulged and used as insults, it could have had a bigger impact that I gave credit.

I also do wonder, in the context of Andrew McLeod's comments, that the failings come back to the lack of identify for players to embrace at the club, so money and personal achievements or even a club culture are an easier sell for managers trying to get players out but also results in our players not being as engaged.

Certainly it doesn't exist in a bubble

The brains who thought this was a good idea and thought it shrewd to dismiss player concerns were the ones making all the other decisions in our football department. With equal thought and judgement.

And those who sit above thought those brains were fantastic operators and worthy of contract extensions all round. And they're still there running the show.

I don't think anyone is of the opinion that the camp was a rare blip in Burton's CV for instance.

 

[hey shorty]

Certainly it doesn't exist in a bubble

The brains who thought this was a good idea and thought it shrewd to dismiss player concerns were the ones making all the other decisions in our football department. With equal thought and judgement.

And those who sit above thought those brains were fantastic operators and worthy of contract extensions all round. And they're still there running the show.

I don't think anyone is of the opinion that the camp was a rare blip in Burton's CV for instance.

Except for Brett himself of course

You only have to re-watch the infamous press conference.

 

[Barneythecrab]

Will Manure do an investigation into the Carlton camps?

 

[John Who]

To be honest, the medical staff being kept away is the actual major issue in this.

That's a problem that does end with Fagan. It inappropriate to have a physically (and mentally) stressful camp offsite and not have full medical attention there.

I think the medical issue with Lynch was grossly exaggerated. Lynch being one of our fittest players, and for him to be the only player on the “sick list” from the camp seems more plausible he had a medical issue during that camp (it was stated loosely that he had gastro).
Also even though the club doctor wasn’t there at the camp, the article stated he “drove to Broadbeach” to help managed Lynch. Suggests to me he was lurking thereabouts and was on call when need be.

 

[John Who]

Will Manure do an investigation into the Carlton camps?

I highly doubt it. It’s been on unofficial record he has more a Crows fetish.

 

[DJ75]

In August 2018 I wrote an email to Fagan in which I implored him to hold a review of our Football department. As part of my email, I wrote the following;

Review aside, my main concerns have been over the decision making of the AFC and of key staff.

As I am sure you are all too aware, the AFC, players, staff and many coaches have been through an enormous amount in the past few years. From the suspension and then death of Dean Bailey, through to the loss of coach Phil Walsh, the group has endured an incredibly challenging time. To the great credit of all involved, the club held itself together and continued to rise to the challenges presented. The playing group will have carried the loss and lessons of Walsh with them over the next few years. I would be certain that in approaching the Grand Final, many will have felt they were doing so in a manner to pay tribute to him. Many will have entertained thoughts of ‘getting the job done’ and paying tribute to him. Taylor Walker would not have been able to avoid considering how he might pay tribute to Phil in an acceptance speech (it is human nature to have done so).

The loss then would have been devastating for the group. All grand final losses are challenging to accept and move on from, this one in particular will have been heart breaking for the players. To have come so far and to have ‘failed’ Walsh (clearly not true but some will have felt this way) will have left the players feeling as though they were grieving all over again.

Anyone with a remote knowledge of psychology, of team performance, of coping with loss or a basic understanding of the players and what they have been through would have understood this. The players were always going to need support and understanding at this time.

The decision then to hold a camp of the nature suggested is a baffling one. It points to poor decision making, a lack of judgement and a lack of understanding of our playing group. I won’t go in to the ins and outs of the camp and of what it may or may not have entailed (another example of very poor communication and messaging from the club), but it is fair to say the camp was a disaster for the playing group. I find the decision to engage groups who are clearly unqualified to run any type of psychological program with a playing group that is worth millions of dollars to the club and to have suffered the trauma they had, to be utterly indefensible. The program entered in to was not a meditation or breathing exercise, but required a very significant increase in psychological knowledge and experience. The Collective Minds group did not have this level of expertise or experience. I am perplexed as to how the management structures at the club allowed this to occur.

I continue to stand by this. It is the decision making that was of greatest concern and, given Roo and Jameson's comments recently, I'd suggest it is still a concern.

Bottom line - the people making decisions in the club (now mainly Roo), should not be in a position to make such decisions.

To Fagan's credit, he called me and we spoke at length. Unfortunately, he was fully defensive of all and it took another year before he actually implemented a review.

 

[TrainRoo32]

What a crock of shit!

 

[Geoffa32]

Journos keep coming back to it because no one has written the definitive article about it

They just chip away with a new nugget here and there mixed in with a bunch of rehashed stuff, still hunting for full version of events that is not forthcoming (until Jenkins gets delisted)

It makes goid Click Bait.

Club with a good following losing games.

The only way to fix it us to start winning games and build back up again.


This goes away when (if) we are playing good footy and near the top of the ladder.


Our club needs to sort out all the internal shit and get back on track.

Which is what we all want.


Till then this camp story will pop up.


Hopefully it is not something Rocco Ruccuito has to deal with as captain.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[John Who]

I’ve said this before, McNure is a pure insult to the landscape of journalism. He’s been insistent that players being upset about the camp is the same as “players have been psychologically damaged/scarred”. You genuinely need a mental health worker to assess the players to know of the level of psychological damage at the time. Otherwise, it is just an opinion piece that the camp was the root of all evil.

What happened on the camp is just airy fairy journalism. I would have liked for him to report “players were assessed by their club psychologist and all have shown to be traumatised by the incident; a few had to check themselves into the Crammond Clinic; several others had to be started on psychotherapy or anxiety medications”. This would be the type of journalism that actually bothers to investigate to the core matter, and not talk up a narrative with loose facts thrown in.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Will Manure do an investigation into the Carlton camps?

That’s just it isn’t!
The moment Gibbs said that should’ve been the moment he realised it’s unnecessary

 

[Cap]

So what's the chance we finally get an official to come out and put this to bed?

Or has it run its race and be forgotten by this afternoon.

 

[Golumless]

So basically, based on the article:

True

1. Only senior leaders were subjected to the "intense" psychological part of the camp
2. There was a talking stick involved and it offended the indigenous players, then the club offended them further with their response
3. There was unexpected lack of contact with family members, and players had to surrender their phones
4. Club welfare staff weren't present
   [*]Club doctor Mark Cesana wrote a report expressing concerns
5. Players were tied to trees in exercise where they were abused while attempting to free themselves. Said abuse was personal and info was provided by the club
6. Lynch had a medical issue and the camp failed to act with an appropriate duty of care
7. Pyke and Campo were present with the "intense" group

False

1. Tied to trees naked and/or made to touch other players inappropriately
2. Abuse directed at Sam Jacobs about his brother. Jacobs wasn't in the "intense" group
3. Richmond song blared on repeat (although this did happen at training on another occasion)
4. Players outside the 10 listed were psychologically abused (the 10 being Betts, Gibbs, Walker, Sloane, Lynch, Jenkins, Douglas, M. Crouch, Hartigan and Talia)

So in a nutshell, it was bad, but not as ridiculous as some of the rumors, and the worst parts of the camp were limited to senior players

There are some pretty damning confirmations though. Pyke and Campo being the only staff members with the "intense" group is weird and it's no surprise they were sacked. Presumably they wanted this group to face this intense stuff and put the other coaches in with the other less intense groups

Also, who provided Collective Mind with the personal information that was then used to abuse the players? Was it Pyke, Campo or Burton?

However the impact also isn't as damaging for player retention as McClure wants to paint it to be. Betts and Jenkins were the only players in the "intense" group we moved on. Others like McGovern, Hampton, Jacobs, Greenwood etc. were presumably with the middle "weird camp" group. Conflating the departure of a player like McGovern with the camp is a big stretch given the article specifically says this group experience was "not nearly as intense"

The evidence also doesn't suggest the camp cooked all the players mentally. Players like Sloane, M. Crouch, Lynch and Talia were just fine in the years afterwards.

Those three points really tell the whole story. No wonder they mutinied the moment collective minds came back.

 

[cleanhands]

The smoking gun is that the club divulged sensitive personal information about the players to snake oil pseudoscientists who used said information against them.

That aspect is totally disgraceful and unacceptable. Whoever divulged that info should be named and shamed, then banned for life from the industry

Burton!

 

[BACCS]

I’m guessing Eddie was the main source for this article? His picture is front and centre in the article

 

[pjcrows]

I’m guessing Eddie was the main source for this article? His picture is front and centre in the article

Betts and Jenkins

 

[BACCS]

Betts and Jenkins

Makes sense

 

[Mismatched]

So what's the chance we finally get an official to come out and put this to bed?

Or has it run its race and be forgotten by this afternoon.

Unfortunately our chance to put it to bed was 2 years ago.

When the players come to you privately with concerns regarding the camp, you listen to them, acknowledge their concerns and apologise for any hurt that may have ensued. You then promise to review, learn and make appropriate changes and actually follow through. Potentially this never see's the light of day.

When the media clearly have players leaking stories of the camp to them and club officials and senior players come out repeatedly saying "nothing to see here" of course the media are going to come hard at you and chase this like a bone. This is especially the case when you treat said victoria media with such hostility.

Unfortunately since we came out so strongly in defense of the camp early, we now can't come out and blatantly admit the issues without a complete loss of face. Our only option, that involves Chapman, Roo and Fagan, plus likely other board members, maintaining their roles is to gradually soften your defense of the camp over the time. Hence we see things like 'in hindsight we didn't get the outcomes desired' or words to that effect. We then hope this all blows over and the media/fans forget.

The only way this largely goes away now is for a significant portion of Chapman/Fagan/Roo to move on, otherwise it will continue to pop up as ammunition against the club.

 

[marty36]

Unfortunately our chance to put it to bed was 2 years ago.

When the players come to you privately with concerns regarding the camp, you listen to them, acknowledge their concerns and apologise for any hurt that may have ensued. You then promise to review, learn and make appropriate changes and actually follow through. Potentially this never see's the light of day.

When the media clearly have players leaking stories of the camp to them and club officials and senior players come out repeatedly saying "nothing to see here" of course the media are going to come hard at you and chase this like a bone. This is especially the case when you treat said victoria media with such hostility.

Unfortunately since we came out so strongly in defense of the camp early, we now can't come out and blatantly admit the issues without a complete loss of face. Our only option, that involves Chapman, Roo and Fagan, plus likely other board members, maintaining their roles is to gradually soften your defense of the camp over the time. Hence we see things like 'in hindsight we didn't get the outcomes desired' or words to that effect. We then hope this all blows over and the media/fans forget.

The only way this largely goes away now is for a significant portion of Chapman/Fagan/Roo to move on, otherwise it will continue to pop up as ammunition against the club.

Shouldnt the board go as a whole there is no individual when it comes to a board

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mutineer]

Makes sense

Jacobs involved without a single solitary doubt.

 

[Kenneth Tron]

Nice of those ex-players to put us through this all over again. Thanks a lot guys .. I’ll certainly remember them for the final kick in the guts they’ve delivered us while we’re down.

 

[marvin]

Jacobs involved without a single solitary doubt.

By the report, he wasn’t in “group 1”.

Then again the report in the paper has a picture of Talia labelled as Hartigan and talks about Brad’s non-trade next to Matt’s pic.

 

[marvin]

Will Manure do an investigation into the Carlton camps?

Being slightly better than Carlton at this sort of thing isn’t much comfort.

 

[feenix67]

I’ve said this before, McNure is a pure insult to the landscape of journalism. He’s been insistent that players being upset about the camp is the same as “players have been psychologically damaged/scarred”. You genuinely need a mental health worker to assess the players to know of the level of psychological damage at the time. Otherwise, it is just an opinion piece that the camp was the root of all evil.

What happened on the camp is just airy fairy journalism. I would have liked for him to report “players were assessed by their club psychologist and all have shown to be traumatised by the incident; a few had to check themselves into the Crammond Clinic; several others had to be started on psychotherapy or anxiety medications”. This would be the type of journalism that actually bothers to investigate to the core matter, and not talk up a narrative with loose facts thrown in.

So, as a self professed medical professional, you'd rather he divulged personal medical information.

Good one.