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[BringBackTorps]

SMH 23.4 Article
Alan Jones continues to fulminate against the ARU - saying it is in crisis, grassroots collapsing, could go broke with falling Super Rugby crowds. Even mentions rise of GWS, & AF being played (allowed?!) in GPS schools (stronghold of RU). Two years ago he organised a private meeting in his home between Pulver & Papworth to "discuss"the crisis. Papworth has been publicly quoted recently with acrimonious attacks on the ARU/Pulver having neglected GR RU; & the need to challenge the growth of the AFL

Syd.Indep. schools (GPS, CAS, ISA) now have an AF comp., which started in 2014. Currently, 55 teams play against other Indep. schools Sat. mornings. Some schools also have female AF teams.
Some Syd. Catholic secondary schools (MCS) play in an AF comp. (But RL much stronger).

AF is fairly strong in the inner, eastern, & nthn. suburbs of Syd. AF has probably in 2017 overtaken Brisbane with more junior club regd. nos. now. The Swans & GWS Academies may have given Sydney community club jnr. AF a big boost (but only modest gains in Syd. U19 Colts & Snr. regd. players).
Jnr. regd. nos. for AF clubs in GWS Syd. zone (west & south Syd.) have doubled since 2013

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...gps-schools--its-a-crisis20170423-gvqn52.html

 

[manicmagpie]

Sydney FTA ratings down 14% which seems significant, overall crowds down 5%, would be interesting to see if Sydneys NRL crowds are down, my bet is they would be down a fair wack.

Sydney NRL crowds are up slightly on the entire 2016 season but about 10% down on the same time last year.

Entire season 2016: 13,748
Up to ANZAC Day 2016: 16,091

Up to ANZAC Day 2017: 14,509

*Sydney games only excludes any games played in Newcastle, Central Coast & Wollongong.

 

[Garlic muncher]

SMH 23.4 Article Alan Jones continues to fulminate against the ARU - saying it is in crisis, grassroots collapsing, could go broke with falling Super Rugby crowds. Even mentions rise of GWS & AF being played (allowed?) in GPS schools (stronghold of RU).

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...gps-schools--its-a-crisis20170423-gvqn52.html

Heading is quite alarmist, RU is still very big at GPS schools, down on years ago probably, but changing demographics in Sydney would see soccer take numbers over a period of time.

There is only 50 GPS footy teams, up from nothing a couple of years ago but in the scheme of things not huge, the real key is whether those teams are taking kids who would have ordinarily in years gone by played RU.

Having a couple of boys who have gone to PSA schools in Perth plenty of kids play soccer but in general they are not the athletic sporting type.

I would imagine the same in Sydney.

So perhaps those 50 teams represent more than 100's of soccer teams in terms of talent changing sports - but perhaps not, it is pretty easy in Sydney to blame the AFL for any thing that goes wrong.

 

[BringBackTorps]

There has been a significant reduction (at least 25%) in recent times in the number of Sydney private secondary school students playing school RU. Soccer nos. have certainly exploded -& soccer probably has the highest nos. at most schools. The % drop would be higher, except that some Syd. schools refuse to introduce comp. AF, even though it is fairly popular in their area eg St Augustines; St Josephs year 7 -10. RU, though, because of its prestige, still generally attracts the best athletes in the Indep. schools.
The govt. school CHS RU comp. has virtually collapsed -a few gala days, Waratah Shield etc (Until the 70's, RU was played in many govt. secondary schools, produced future Wallabies, & occasionally beat Indep. schools).

It is generally accepted soccer is failing in attracting the majority of top athletes.

Aust. jnr. soccer teams are regularly failing abysmally in international comps. -often not even making any finals. Their record has been deteriorating, despite record funding of jnr. squads & elite training programs (much of which is funded by "hopeful, possibly naive"parents; & high GR regn. fees).
The Socceroos are now rated about 52 -in 2010, rated as high as c.21. Unlike the "Golden Generation"era up to about 2012, virtually no Australians are good enough now to play in the top5 euro. leagues. C. Foster & Bosnich regularly decry the decline in Australian soccer standards -despite the new & much praised intro. of the National Skills Curriculum. For many youngsters, IMO, soccer is the easy, simple "default"option, when deciding to do a school sport. This might explain the big decline of regd. jnr. soccer players continuing to play the sport when they leave school.

 

[Garlic muncher]

There has been a significant reduction (at least 25%) in recent times in the number of Sydney private secondary school students playing school RU. Soccer nos. have certainly exploded -& soccer probably has the highest nos. at most schools. The % drop would be higher, except that some Syd. schools refuse to introduce comp. AF, even though it is fairly popular in their area eg St Augustines; St Josephs year 7 -10. RU, though, because of its prestige, still generally attracts the best athletes in the Indep. schools.
The govt. school CHS RU comp. has virtually collapsed -a few gala days, Waratah Shield etc (Until the 70's, RU was played in many govt. secondary schools, produced future Wallabies, & occasionally beat Indep. schools).

It is generally accepted soccer is failing in attracting the majority of top athletes.

Aust. jnr. soccer teams are regularly failing abysmally in international comps. -often not even making any finals. Their record has been deteriorating, despite record funding of jnr. squads & elite training programs (much of which is funded by "hopeful, possibly naive"parents; & high GR regn. fees).
The Socceroos are now rated about 52 -in 2010, rated as high as c.21. Unlike the "Golden Generation"era up to about 2012, virtually no Australians are good enough now to play in the top5 euro. leagues. C. Foster & Bosnich regularly decry the decline in Australian soccer standards -despite the new & much praised intro. of the National Skills Curriculum. For many youngsters, IMO, soccer is the easy, simple "default"option, when deciding to do a school sport. This might explain the big decline of regd. jnr. soccer players continuing to play the sport when they leave school.

There is plenty of fantastic sporting options at independent ( PSA, GPS etc ) schools etc these days, from archery to surfing, all the football codes minus RL of course, water polo, athletics, rowing, tennis etc etc etc, but soccer is a very easy option for the non sporting inclined, generalising of course, but it is what i have noticed and heard in convos with other parents the boys etc.

So whilst RU might be losing players to soccer and footy, they are also losing plenty of players whom in the past would have played rugby and now can take up a multitude of different options.

The problem RU really has is because they are rooted in the upper class demographics and send their kids to schools who now provide many more options, years ago in Sydney all they had was rugby, cricket, athletics and rowing but slowly and surely new sports have been introduced.

I doubt whether the GPS footy in Sydney will get as big as either soccer or rugby but 2 sides per year per school would be a huge win for the game.

ATM Knox and Riverview provide 16 of the 50 teams, it would be great if a couple of other schools could build to that amount.

 

[precarious]

I see (from the 2017 AFL crowds and ratings thread) that a total of 1,539,000 tuned into the Ess v Coll Anzac game over the 3 hours (1,157,000 on FTA, 382,000 on STA), in addition to the 85.6k at the ground.

How does this compare to the equivalent NRL game on at the same time?

Overnight totals were 1539k for AFL, 985k for NRL. There will be some adjustment to the NRL figure due to running ten minutes over time.

Couple of observations re progress on expansion:

1. Roughly* 233k are recorded as watching AFL in the AFL's expansion states (NSW & QLD) compared with 913k watching NRL in these states. So the AFL audience was about 25.5 percent of the NRL audience in NRL heartland.

Conversely, 72k watched NRL outside NRL heartland (VIC, SA & WA) compared with 1306k watching AFL in these states. The NRL audience was about 5.5 percent of the AFL audience in AFL heartland.

2. About 18 percent of AFL viewers came from outside AFL heartland; 8 percent of NRL viewers came from outside NRL heartland.

* Note: The above figures are not entirely accurate because we don't know the precise state breakdown of the regional STV viewers, of which nationally there were 65k for AFL and 87k for NRL.

To get around this, I assumed the state breakdown of regional STV was the same as the breakdown for regional FTA. We can mostly infer the latter because Mediaweek distinguished secondary channel regionals from main channel.

Specifically, AFL numbers for NSW & QLD were 80k for Metro FTA (38k + 42k), 62k for Metro STV (26k + 36k), 74k for Regional FTA (out of a national regional figure of 275k) and an estimated 17k for Regional STV (65k x 74/275).

NRL numbers for VIC, SA & WA were 24k for Metro FTA (12k + 5k + 7k), 29k for Metro STV (20k + 2k + 7k), about 14k for Regional FTA (out of a national regional figure of 257k), which includes the reported 10k for VIC & SA and an estimated 4k for WA (using the metro FTA city breakdown between SYD, QLD & PER), and an estimated 5k for Regional STV (87k x 14/257).

 

[BringBackTorps]

Overnight totals were 1539k for AFL, 985k for NRL. There will be some adjustment to the NRL figure due to running ten minutes over time.

Couple of observations re progress on expansion:

1. Roughly* 233k are recorded as watching AFL in the AFL's expansion states (NSW & QLD) compared with 913k watching NRL in these states. So the AFL audience was about 25.5 percent of the NRL audience in NRL heartland.

Conversely, 72k watched NRL outside NRL heartland (VIC, SA & WA) compared with 1306k watching AFL in these states. The NRL audience was about 5.5 percent of the AFL audience in AFL heartland.

2. About 18 percent of AFL viewers came from outside AFL heartland; 8 percent of NRL viewers came from outside NRL heartland.

* Note: The above figures are not entirely accurate because we don't know the precise state breakdown of the regional STV viewers, of which nationally there were 65k for AFL and 87k for NRL.

To get around this, I assumed the state breakdown of regional STV was the same as the breakdown for regional FTA. We can mostly infer the latter because Mediaweek distinguished secondary channel regionals from main channel.

Specifically, AFL numbers for NSW & QLD were 80k for Metro FTA (38k + 42k), 62k for Metro STV (26k + 36k), 74k for Regional FTA (out of a national regional figure of 275k) and an estimated 17k for Regional STV (65k x 74/275).

NRL numbers for VIC, SA & WA were 24k for Metro FTA (12k + 5k + 7k), 29k for Metro STV (20k + 2k + 7k), about 14k for Regional FTA (out of a national regional figure of 257k), which includes the reported 10k for VIC & SA and an estimated 4k for WA (using the metro FTA city breakdown between SYD, QLD & PER), and an estimated 5k for Regional STV (87k x 14/257).

It is probable the NRL (with $1.85 billion rights deal) will eventually, post 2022, expand to Perth (especially if Western Force are cut), & Brisbane 2 (Broncos get poor crowds, cf Brisbane pop. 2,300,000). This will boost the NRL's crowds, ratings & rights significantly (Perth late afternoon game broadcast into Eastern states Primetime).

As an aside, if RU continues its long term decline in regd. contact nos. & crowds/ratings, who do you think will be the main beneficiary in Syd. -RL or AF (re increased participation nos. & ratings); & why?
Also, your view on why RL regd. contact nos. are declining in heartland western Syd.?

 

[Freomaniac]

It is probable the NRL (with $1.85 billion rights deal) will eventually, post 2022, expand to Perth (especially if Western Force are cut), & Brisbane 2 (Broncos get poor crowds, cf Brisbane pop. 2,300,000). This will boost the NRL's crowds, ratings & rights significantly (Perth late afternoon game broadcast into Eastern states Primetime).

As an aside, if RU continues its long term decline in regd. contact nos. & crowds/ratings, who do you think will be the main beneficiary in Syd. -RL or AF (re increased participation nos. & ratings); & why?
Also, your view on why RL regd. contact nos. are declining in heartland western Syd.?

I am hoping Adelaide eventually gets an NRL side even if they get 5-8,000 for the 1st 5-10 years. I am not a die hard Rugby League fan but there are some Rugby league fans here in SA. I am curious on how the Rugby league can start another Adelaide based team from scratch.

If Rugby union in NSW is starting to decline in crowds and Ratings, I will assume Aussie rules will benefit from it the most because they have the money to promote the game more. It will only help Strengthen Giants and Swans. NRL will always have 10 NSW based sides regardless.

It will benefit the Socceroos and A-league, A League crowds will be stable around the 12,000 people per game average. ARU has always viewed soccer as a threat. Socceroos and ARU sides have always battled each other for sponsor ships.

Cricket is a strange beast though... 20/20 Cricket is thriving but tests and 1 dayers are struggling.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I am hoping Adelaide eventually gets an NRL side even if they get 5-8,000 for the 1st 5-10 years. I am not a die hard Rugby League fan but there are some Rugby league fans here in SA. I am curious on how the Rugby league can start another Adelaide based team from scratch.

If Rugby union in NSW is starting to decline in crowds and Ratings, I will assume Aussie rules will benefit from it the most because they have the money to promote the game more. It will only help Strengthen Giants and Swans. NRL will always have 10 NSW based sides regardless.

It will benefit the Socceroos and A-league, A League crowds will be stable around the 12,000 people per game average. ARU has always viewed soccer as a threat. Socceroos and ARU sides have always battled each other for sponsor ships.

Cricket is a strange beast though... 20/20 Cricket is thriving but tests and 1 dayers are struggling.

Adelaide does not have the huge nos. of expat Brits, Kiwis, PI's, NSW, & Qld'ers that Melb. & Perth have -cant see Adelaide having an NRL team in the next 15 years.

Despite the internecine warfare between RU & RL since 1908, one would normally assume (since they are "kindred"sports) that disaffected RU supporters would favour RL cf AF.

One cannot, however, completely ignore the class differences -& the fact that so many NSW private schools (excluding Catholic) don't allow RL to be played. St Greg's Campbelltown (Catholic) is one of the very few schools in NSW (Aust.?) that has its students playing in RL., RU, soccer, & AF school comps.!
(Qld. & ACT offer more diversity in football codes)
Similarly, Tertiary institutions in NSW have multiple RU teams -& virtually no RL teams. Despite the Sydney (Easts) Roosters NRL many successess, it doesn't have an eastern suburbs recruiting base -since there are so few RL players (cf RU) in Sydney's more affluent areas.

Further declines in NSW country (Central West) RU regd. contact playing nos., requiring drastic & unsustainable measures, are noted below.
RL is also in decline in the bush.

http://www.rugbynews.net.au/country-club-offers-free-rego-to-attract-young-players-in-70th-season/

 

[papabear]

Adelaide does not have the huge nos. of expat Brits, Kiwis, PI's, NSW, & Qld'ers that Melb. & Perth have -cant see Adelaide having an NRL team in the next 15 years.

Despite the internecine warfare between RU & RL since 1908, one would normally assume (since they are "kindred"sports) that disaffected RU supporters would favour RL cf AF.

One cannot, however, completely ignore the class differences -& the fact that so many NSW private schools (excluding Catholic) don't allow RL to be played. St Greg's Campbelltown (Catholic) is one of the very few schools in NSW (Aust.?) that has its students playing in RL., RU, soccer, & AF school comps.!
(Qld. & ACT offer more diversity in football codes)
Similarly, Tertiary institutions in NSW have multiple RU teams -& virtually no RL teams. Despite the Sydney (Easts) Roosters NRL many successess, it doesn't have an eastern suburbs recruiting base -since there are so few RL players (cf RU) in Sydney's more affluent areas.

Further declines in NSW country (Central West) RU regd. contact playing nos., requiring drastic & unsustainable measures, are noted below.
RL is also in decline in the bush.

http://www.rugbynews.net.au/country-club-offers-free-rego-to-attract-young-players-in-70th-season/

Hangers on and socialites will go towards AFL.
Players would go towards league.

Thus I think AFL would probably do better out of it.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Interesting times

Amazing to think where AFL in Sydney will be in 2030

 

[Garlic muncher]

Interesting times

Amazing to think where AFL in Sydney will be in 2030

I don't think anyone has really a great handle on it.

Obviously it can be one of 3 things - grow, contract or mantain the status quo.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Hangers on and socialites will go towards AFL.
Players would go towards league.

Thus I think AFL would probably do better out of it.

Definition of "hangers on and socialites"?

RU & RL are virtually similar sports, split in 1908 only on issue of paying players (Most important difference, RU has Lineouts, real scrums). RU has c.200,000+ regd contact, 7's, & non-contact Viva, Game On players.
You stated RU "Players would go to league". Due to being a similar game to RL?
(AF recruits virtually nil elite players from RL and RU, aged 16+).

If RU's popularity continues to fade, how could the small no. of RU "hangers on & socialites"(cf 200,000+ RU regd." players [ who] would go to league") cause your end-result: that "AFL would probably do better out of it"?

RU has deliberately, forcefully, & continuously opposed AF since the 1880's -& still is NOW refusing to permit AF in some schools.
Could there be an alliance in the next 20 years, between RL (assuming RL contact regd. nos. continue their long term decline) & RU (assuming it also continues to fade) - to "thwart"AF?
And the ONLY local elite domestic comp. in Aust. is the NRL (or another name) -& only plays RL (...OR a MAINLY RL game -definitely no scrums, 13 a side, perhaps with Lineouts, mauls?).

And elite Aust. international teams ONLY play traditional RU?

This alliance would greatly strengthen, in Aust., the "rugby-style"game! Just call the local game "Australian Rugby", & international game played by Australians "Rugby".

 

[Our Game]

Definition of "hangers on and socialites"?

RU & RL are virtually similar sports, split in 1908 only on issue of paying players (Most important difference, RU has Lineouts, real scrums). RU has c.200,000+ regd contact, 7's, & non-contact Viva, Game On players.
You stated RU "Players would go to league". Due to being a similar game to RL?
(AF recruits virtually nil elite players from RL and RU, aged 16+).

If RU's popularity continues to fade, how could the small no. of RU "hangers on & socialites"(cf 200,000+ RU regd." players [ who] would go to league") cause your end-result: that "AFL would probably do better out of it"?

RU has deliberately, forcefully, & continuously opposed AF since the 1880's -& still is NOW refusing to permit AF in some schools.


Its very surprising how quickly RU has gone downhill to be long way in fourth place but you have to remember it is mainly played at the highest level in Australia only in NSW and QLD.
I dont think any Australian Football supporters would be shedding any tears if the die out.
Take the players away from those two States from our so called "national team" the Wallabies and you wouldnt be able to field a team!

 

[kaypee]

Definition of "hangers on and socialites"?

RU & RL are virtually similar sports, split in 1908 only on issue of paying players (Most important difference, RU has Lineouts, real scrums). RU has c.200,000+ regd contact, 7's, & non-contact Viva, Game On players.
You stated RU "Players would go to league". Due to being a similar game to RL?
(AF recruits virtually nil elite players from RL and RU, aged 16+).

If RU's popularity continues to fade, how could the small no. of RU "hangers on & socialites"(cf 200,000+ RU regd." players [ who] would go to league") cause your end-result: that "AFL would probably do better out of it"?

RU has deliberately, forcefully, & continuously opposed AF since the 1880's -& still is NOW refusing to permit AF in some schools.
Could there be an alliance in the next 20 years, between RL (assuming RL contact regd. nos. continue their long term decline) & RU (assuming it also continues to fade) - to "thwart"AF?
And the ONLY local elite domestic comp. in Aust. is the NRL (or another name) -& only plays RL (...OR a MAINLY RL game -definitely no scrums, 13 a side, perhaps with Lineouts, mauls?).

And elite Aust. international teams ONLY play traditional RU?

This alliance would greatly strengthen, in Aust., the "rugby-style"game! Just call the local game "Australian Rugby", & international game played by Australians "Rugby".

there could be some alignment between union and league and it's been mentioned furtively in the past, but given some of the comments about union over at that cesspool of paranoid oiks (leagueunlimited), there appears to be hatred towards that game (as well as virtually anything else - merkin this, derp that, victardia, yawnion) and I reckon a lot of talented boys would simply drift over to Australian football while union and league glare at each other from across the social divide.
I gather that's sort of how footy recruiters operate now anyway: they spot a kid playing another spot who looks the goods, sidle up and suggest a run in Australian football. Sometimes they get told to piss off, sometimes they don't.

 

[Garlic muncher]

there could be some alignment between union and league and it's been mentioned furtively in the past, but given some of the comments about union over at that cesspool of paranoid oiks (leagueunlimited), there appears to be hatred towards that game (as well as virtually anything else - merkin this, derp that, victardia, yawnion) and I reckon a lot of talented boys would simply drift over to Australian football while union and league glare at each other from across the social divide.
I gather that's sort of how footy recruiters operate now anyway: they spot a kid playing another spot who looks the goods, sidle up and suggest a run in Australian football. Sometimes they get told to piss off, sometimes they don't.

FME in general there is a lot less angst between the RU community and footy one.

The funny thing is worldwide the game of RU is experiencing outside of its traditional heartlands quite a bit of growth.

But elsewhere in the world it does not have to put up with the AFL and RL, which spent a 100 years poaching its players.

It is a very slow process for people to change their footballing loyalties, we have made a artform of code warring in this country.

If RU hit the skids, which i don't think it will do, footy would get its fair share of players, but there is plenty of RU boys who are just not built for football.

 

[jatz14]

FME in general there is a lot less angst between the RU community and footy one.

The funny thing is worldwide the game of RU is experiencing outside of its traditional heartlands quite a bit of growth.

But elsewhere in the world it does not have to put up with the AFL and RL, which spent a 100 years poaching its players.

It is a very slow process for people to change their footballing loyalties, we have made a artform of code warring in this country.

If RU hit the skids, which i don't think it will do, footy would get its fair share of players, but there is plenty of RU boys who are just not built for football.

For a lot of RU players not built for football, this is because of a lifetime training for RU. They would be built for football if that was what they played.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[baaaall!]

21k at Suncorp for Broncos and Panthers

 

[NoobPie]

21k at Suncorp for Broncos and Panthers

Ouch

 

[pOleK]

21k at Suncorp for Broncos and Panthers

There on our levels. Gotta say that's pretty poor considering they're now in 3rd spot and we're coming 14th

 

[bombersfan4000]

There on our levels. Gotta say that's pretty poor considering they're now in 3rd spot and we're coming 14th

Interesting to put into perspective the Lions a decade of being crap & Broncos a decade of being rather successful.

But That is a terrible crowd bit them! now doubt would have been torrential rain like it always is for an NRL game

 

[Hellgood]

I am hoping Adelaide eventually gets an NRL side even if they get 5-8,000 for the 1st 5-10 years. I am not a die hard Rugby League fan but there are some Rugby league fans here in SA. I am curious on how the Rugby league can start another Adelaide based team from scratch.

If Rugby union in NSW is starting to decline in crowds and Ratings, I will assume Aussie rules will benefit from it the most because they have the money to promote the game more. It will only help Strengthen Giants and Swans. NRL will always have 10 NSW based sides regardless.

It will benefit the Socceroos and A-league, A League crowds will be stable around the 12,000 people per game average. ARU has always viewed soccer as a threat. Socceroos and ARU sides have always battled each other for sponsor ships.

Cricket is a strange beast though... 20/20 Cricket is thriving but tests and 1 dayers are struggling.

Do tell me how test cricket in Australia can remotely be conceived to be struggling?

 

[Our Game]

There on our levels. Gotta say that's pretty poor considering they're now in 3rd spot and we're coming 14th

Yep thats a shocker for the Broncos at home.The Lions crowds dont look that bad now.

 

[papabear]

Definition of "hangers on and socialites"?

RU & RL are virtually similar sports, split in 1908 only on issue of paying players (Most important difference, RU has Lineouts, real scrums). RU has c.200,000+ regd contact, 7's, & non-contact Viva, Game On players.
You stated RU "Players would go to league". Due to being a similar game to RL?
(AF recruits virtually nil elite players from RL and RU, aged 16+).

If RU's popularity continues to fade, how could the small no. of RU "hangers on & socialites"(cf 200,000+ RU regd." players [ who] would go to league") cause your end-result: that "AFL would probably do better out of it"?

RU has deliberately, forcefully, & continuously opposed AF since the 1880's -& still is NOW refusing to permit AF in some schools.
Could there be an alliance in the next 20 years, between RL (assuming RL contact regd. nos. continue their long term decline) & RU (assuming it also continues to fade) - to "thwart"AF?
And the ONLY local elite domestic comp. in Aust. is the NRL (or another name) -& only plays RL (...OR a MAINLY RL game -definitely no scrums, 13 a side, perhaps with Lineouts, mauls?).

And elite Aust. international teams ONLY play traditional RU?

This alliance would greatly strengthen, in Aust., the "rugby-style"game! Just call the local game "Australian Rugby", & international game played by Australians "Rugby".

Hangers on and socialites are the people who attend school rugby matches to be seen, to network etc. Nothing wrong with that, but AFL serves that purpose better then rugby league. IMO there are more hangers on and socialites then rugby union players.

Rugby Unions popularity in australia continues to fade, but in the big scheme of rugby, I dont think world rugby gives a shit.

There is too much water under the bridge and differences now for the too codes to merge, even though it would make sense from a business point of view. The differences are far far larger then those of the different Victorian / australian football leagues I have read about on this site.

Keep in mind, rugby union and rugby league didn't have to split, if rugby union allowed the northern clubs to pay there players. Despite the obvious advantages of both codes sticking together and pooling there resources for the betterment of one rugby football code they have actively gone the other way through- out there history, from france in the 1950s, to the issues SA league has today. There is example after example of mostly ru trying to eliminate league completely (not through fair market popularity means, just through skullduggery and corruption)

 

[thegreig]

Hangers on and socialites are the people who attend school rugby matches to be seen, to network etc. Nothing wrong with that, but AFL serves that purpose better then rugby league. IMO there are more hangers on and socialites then rugby union players.

Rugby Unions popularity in australia continues to fade, but in the big scheme of rugby, I dont think world rugby gives a shit.

There is too much water under the bridge and differences now for the too codes to merge, even though it would make sense from a business point of view. The differences are far far larger then those of the different Victorian / australian football leagues I have read about on this site.

Keep in mind, rugby union and rugby league didn't have to split, if rugby union allowed the northern clubs to pay there players. Despite the obvious advantages of both codes sticking together and pooling there resources for the betterment of one rugby football code they have actively gone the other way through- out there history, from france in the 1950s, to the issues SA league has today. There is example after example of mostly ru trying to eliminate league completely (not through fair market popularity means, just through skullduggery and corruption)

Naild it. RU has no one to blame but themselves for this mess, I truly believe that RU could have come close to being the biggest football code in the world if they had been more inclusive and less pig headed from the start. The game would still be called Rugby Football and leauge would never have come into existence, you could then argue Aussie Rules wouldnt have gained the popularity it needed to get up and Australia would have been as Rugby mad as NZ.
Although im glad that never happened...