Autopsy AFL 2024 Round 8 - Tigers v Dockers Sun May 5th 1pm AEST (MCG)

[Freomaniac]

Wow you beat the 17th placed Tigers that have tons of injuries, way to go. Let me know whenever you folks ever win a premiership

Nothing against Richmond and nothing against you personally. Just some anti dockers posters like to sink the boots in.

 

[Pomsta]

Agreed. If Yze is in it for the rebuild then we're on the slow and sometimes painful but necessary path.

Hoping he's not misreading the list.

Yze said at the start of the year that we are a good chance of making finals if we have a decent injury free run. With our strongest team this year we beat Sydney. With all the injuries we've beaten no-one. I think he's pretty realistic.

 

[Lsta062]

Team known for playing on the edge loses free kick count.

Who would've thought.

There isn't a more undisciplined side in the comp. It won them premierships a few years ago now it burns them.

That was us in 2017-2018 when we only had Riewoldt as our key forward. We stopped playing like that since we got Lynch, so our gamestyle doesn't really explain our free kick differential at all.

This is especially the case since 2020. Our gamestyle in 2022 was the most bruise-free we've played in years, and the free-kick differential was even worse than some of our 'edgy' gamestyle years. We're one of the worst pressure sides this year, and there's still no change.

Our complaints about the free kick count are valid.

 

[MisterMarcus]

That was us in 2017-2018 when we only had Riewoldt as our key forward. We stopped playing like that since we got Lynch, so our gamestyle doesn't really explain our free kick differential at all.

This is especially the case since 2020. Our gamestyle in 2022 was the most bruise-free we've played in years, and the free-kick differential was even worse than some of our 'edgy' gamestyle years. We're one of the worst pressure sides this year, and there's still no change.

Our complaints about the free kick count are valid.

I guess there's four ways to look at it.

A team might consistently lose the free kick count because:

A) They play a game style that is more conducive to giving away free kicks.

B) They are a younger or less experienced team that is more prone to making mistakes and giving away frees.

C) Just the luck of the draw/"shizen happens" - e.g. Geelong has lost every free kick count this season despite winning 7-1.

D) Every single person involved in the AFL is participating in a years-long league wide conspiracy to screw over that team because reasons.

 

[Righteo]

Just watching the replay because I couldn't watch it live. What a little weasel Baker is. Bowling into Treacy after the mark and then the same on Luke Ryan when he had his head down with the ball.

He plays with an edge, can't wait to see him in the purple and white. Will walk into the side as our best small fwd.

 

[Pusswah]

Oh boo some more you weak campaigners

 

[GastevsBeard]

I guess there's four ways to look at it.

A team might consistently lose the free kick count because:

A) They play a game style that is more conducive to giving away free kicks.

B) They are a younger or less experienced team that is more prone to making mistakes and giving away frees.

C) Just the luck of the draw/"shizen happens" - e.g. Geelong has lost every free kick count this season despite winning 7-1.

D) Every single person involved in the AFL is participating in a years-long league wide conspiracy to screw over that team because reasons.

or E) RFC did play on the edge & pioneered an undisciplined style, which likely meant we were part of recalibration discussions with umpires with the introduction of new rules such as 666 & stand. Now, there remains a bit of sub-conscious bias in how we are umpired

You might call this conspiratorial, but the data will show

1. we have a treacherous record for frees for and against from 2017 to the present
2. this also spans multiple game-plans, personnel and coaches - our pressure has been abysmal in the last few years

I will concede we don't always help ourselves as an on-field team (i.e. Grimes, Nankervis) - but the consistency & persistence of the poor-differential trend is what has raised fans eyebrows

 

[juss]

or E) RFC did play on the edge & pioneered an undisciplined style, which likely meant we were part of recalibration discussions with umpires with the introduction of new rules such as 666 & stand. Now, there remains a bit of sub-conscious bias in how we are umpired

You might call this conspiratorial, but the data will show

1. we have a treacherous record for frees for and against from 2017 to the present
2. this also spans multiple game-plans, personnel and coaches - our pressure has been abysmal in the last few years

I will concede we don't always help ourselves as an on-field team (i.e. Grimes, Nankervis) - but the consistency & persistence of the poor-differential trend is what has raised fans eyebrows

Yep, no one rational is suggesting a planned conspiracy, but there's long term data that's really odd to see 17 other clubs all pull up their discipline and infringe less significantly when playing Richmond.

It's ones we don't receive. Definelty unconscious bias could be a legitimate explanation, but if you suggest it you'll be gaslit as to claiming a tin foil hat conspiracy.

People don't want to look where they don't want to see. No one's going to bother admitting that there could be different umpiring standards applied to different teams because it doesn't suit them or their team to recognise it as their team isn't the one on the wrong end of it long term.

 

[Lsta062]

I guess there's four ways to look at it.

A team might consistently lose the free kick count because:

A) They play a game style that is more conducive to giving away free kicks.

B) They are a younger or less experienced team that is more prone to making mistakes and giving away frees.

C) Just the luck of the draw/"shizen happens" - e.g. Geelong has lost every free kick count this season despite winning 7-1.

D) Every single person involved in the AFL is participating in a years-long league wide conspiracy to screw over that team because reasons.

E) Umpires pay more attention to teams they expect to be more undisciplined.

We built that reputation throughout 2017-2018 because of our edgy style, and it has continued since despite no longer playing like that anymore.

If you think it’s nonsense, just look at when they stopped giving Greene and Ginnivan free kicks at a stage despite genuinely earning them at times. They put in their minds that Ginnivan for example is a stager, and adjudicated accordingly. That alone shows how unconscious bias manifests.

I’m not saying that they ‘hate’ us as such. I’m just saying that they look at infringements we do more closer than other teams. Kinda like a teacher looking at the “naughty” student more closer than others, even if they’re no longer “naughty”.

It’s just not normal for us to be bottom 2 in free kick differential in all years since 2017 except for 2019 regardless of gamestyle. Teams don’t concede as much free kicks because the umps are look at what we’re doing instead

 

[Lsta062]

or E) RFC did play on the edge & pioneered an undisciplined style, which likely meant we were part of recalibration discussions with umpires with the introduction of new rules such as 666 & stand. Now, there remains a bit of sub-conscious bias in how we are umpired

You might call this conspiratorial, but the data will show

1. we have a treacherous record for frees for and against from 2017 to the present
2. this also spans multiple game-plans, personnel and coaches - our pressure has been abysmal in the last few years

I will concede we don't always help ourselves as an on-field team (i.e. Grimes, Nankervis) - but the consistency & persistence of the poor-differential trend is what has raised fans eyebrows

Yesss this! This is exactly how I see it too

 

[maskmcgee]

Freo scored 14.11.95 tonight dogs scored 10.11.71.

Amazing how every week all your wins just look worse and worse. 4 goals down to the Lions who are garbage, 8 goals down to Norf who are non existent, losing to Port and Carlton who are questionable at best, and celebrating a win against the Dogs who are also hopeless.

 

[pie chucker]

E) Umpires pay more attention to teams they expect to be more undisciplined.

We built that reputation throughout 2017-2018 because of our edgy style, and it has continued since despite no longer playing like that anymore.

If you think it’s nonsense, just look at when they stopped giving Greene and Ginnivan free kicks at a stage despite genuinely earning them at times. They put in their minds that Ginnivan for example is a stager, and adjudicated accordingly. That alone shows how unconscious bias manifests.

I’m not saying that they ‘hate’ us as such. I’m just saying that they look at infringements we do more closer than other teams. Kinda like a teacher looking at the “naughty” student more closer than others, even if they’re no longer “naughty”.

It’s just not normal for us to be bottom 2 in free kick differential in all years since 2017 except for 2019 regardless of gamestyle. Teams don’t concede as much free kicks because the umps are look at what we’re doing instead

Richmond lost by 50 points against a pretty average side and you're bringing up umpiring.

 

[Lsta062]

Richmond lost by 50 points against a pretty average side and you're bringing up umpiring.

Useless response. Can you please show me where I said we lost today’s game because of umpiring?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I guess there's four ways to look at it.

A team might consistently lose the free kick count because:

A) They play a game style that is more conducive to giving away free kicks.

B) They are a younger or less experienced team that is more prone to making mistakes and giving away frees.

C) Just the luck of the draw/"shizen happens" - e.g. Geelong has lost every free kick count this season despite winning 7-1.

D) Every single person involved in the AFL is participating in a years-long league wide conspiracy to screw over that team because reasons.

Mcginnivan tells you D) is entirely possible

Agendas are impressed on the umpires that lead to completely obvious, unfair outcomes, like Mcginnivan can get his head completely ripped off an you know they will not pay a free kick.

So if it can happen to McG, why cant other agendas/biases exist?

 

[matthew_s]

Nothing against Richmond and nothing against you personally. Just some anti dockers posters like to sink the boots in.

come on man, bumping this thread to gloat and picking the exact post you replied to...you're just asking for it.

It was Richmond, who the Eagles, the worst team in AFL history just beat.

I get it, it's a decent win and all but it doesnt do anything to quiet the naysayers.

and **** off, Freo would take current Jake Waterman in a heartbeat, legit Coleman chance a third the way through the season.

 

[FreoGirl]

come on man, bumping this thread to gloat and picking the exact post you replied to...you're just asking for it.

It was Richmond, who the Eagles, the worst team in AFL history just beat.

I get it, it's a decent win and all but it doesnt do anything to quiet the naysayers.

and * off, Freo would take current Jake Waterman in a heartbeat, legit Coleman chance a third the way through the season.

Freo's kids were just involved in Freo's biggest MCG win since 2015. Any win at the MCG is a bonus.

 

[pie chucker]

Useless response. Can you please show me where I said we lost today’s game because of umpiring?

All good, didn't mean to single you out, I'm just amazed that you have a number of posts about umpires on an autopsy thread when your team were shocking. It's the last thing you should be worried about on today's performance.

You've still won 3 recent premierships so personally I'd take the good with the bad.

 

[Lsta062]

All good, didn't mean to single you out, I'm just amazed that you have a number of posts about umpires on an autopsy thread. It's the last thing you should be worried about on today's performance.

Not when this is the 8th year that we’ve seen this type of umpiring. Our complaints have been brewing over all these years, and today’s the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me. The umpiring in our game just detracts from the enjoyment of the game. I can handle a bad Richmond given we’ve been crap many times in the past. I can even handle losing to Fremantle by 100+ points. They’ve become a pretty good side now after all.

What I can’t handle is this bullcrap umpiring we’ve seen since 2017. OK, I’ll cop 2017 and 2018 because of our gamestyle, but what excuse do they have now that we don’t play like that anymore?

What’s worse is that our club does nothing of note about it. Collingwood and Carlton spoke up against the AFL after only one game of this. We say nothing. I’m seriously over it

 

[WilloTree]

There are a few stats that you can look at that will show you where your team is going well and where it needs to improve.

Free-kicks isn't one of them

In fact, it might be the least useful stat to take out of that game.

I'd be much more concerned if I were a Tigers supporter about the clearances, marks and marks inside 50.

How my team's forwards let a defender run around all day and get 39 disposals under minimal pressure would be very very high on my list. Are the forwards just not defending? Are they lazy or selfish? Is the message just not there?

That's what I would have taken out of the game, but that's just me.

 

[WilloTree]

What's the good of free KFC in Victoria when they don't even have Hot & Spicy as a regular menu item.

That's Neanderthal

 

[masai tu]

Freo's kids were just involved in Freo's biggest MCG win since 2015. Any win at the MCG is a bonus.

Playing at the MCG is a bonus, pity we aren’t swift.

 

[Freomaniac]

come on man, bumping this thread to gloat and picking the exact post you replied to...you're just asking for it.

It was Richmond, who the Eagles, the worst team in AFL history just beat.

I get it, it's a decent win and all but it doesnt do anything to quiet the naysayers.

and * off, Freo would take current Jake Waterman in a heartbeat, legit Coleman chance a third the way through the season.

Yeah Jake Waterman would be handy at Freo.... But Josh Tracey had a good game vs Tigers today

 

[juss]

There are a few stats that you can look at that will show you where your team is going well and where it needs to improve.

Free-kicks isn't one of them

In fact, it might be the least useful stat to take out of that game.

I'd be much more concerned if I were a Tigers supporter about the clearances, marks and marks inside 50.

How my team's forwards let a defender run around all day and get 39 disposals under minimal pressure would be very very high on my list. Are the forwards just not defending? Are they lazy or selfish? Is the message just not there?

That's what I would have taken out of the game, but that's just me.

Get it, but I think you're missing the point the issue isn't with "that game". This is long term over and over again, backed by data.

Of course there's a million other things our side needs to work on, that will come, we're a true rebuilding side and are going to put in awful performances at times of which today is one of them. But the team out there needs a fair shot with umpiring and it just doesn't seem to be getting it, over and over again.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Would have expected a better home crowd given the membership figures.
Looked like a ghost town.

 

[Waca Jr]

Would have expected a better home crowd given the membership figures.
Looked like a ghost town.

At 1pm on a Sunday when junior footy is on all day v an interstate side? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were only an additional 20k to the game the night before.