Recruiting AFL Draft Watch 2022 - Tsatas, Hayes, Davey x2, Munkara & Montgomerie

[eDPS]

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central.rookieme.com

 

[ant555]

ant555 id be interested in what your view is of Humphreys defending ability? Not sure if youve seen him live or not, think theres a bit to be desired there aswell

The problem with alot of these u15-u18 kids that you may be talking about is that disposals, goals ect are talked about and rewarded. Whereas the defensive work is very rarely rewarded at that level. It might be changing a bit as its become a larger talking point in the AFL since the tigers era kicked off but in my time (5-12 years ago) there wasnt much care for defensive work and all the best kids in the state did nothing defensively but then had tonnes of energy when a turnover occured

Id be taking Humphrey over Tsatas. Ive only watched the one game on tv of Tsatas and thought his impact was limited yet still won plenty of football. Also think Humphreys character would be big for the club and he plays early games as a fwd

As for targetting currently Sydneys 14 and GWS 15 picks. Im a little hesitant but it also might be the best we can do. Its right on the brink of whether one of the gun 14 are still available then after that it might be how much we rate a Keeler, how much of a need Konstanty fills or how much we rate Ed Allen, or maybe its just better we keep an early 2nd and get a mid 2nd for next year instead

That Melbourne pick 13 is key, which is why i wanted to try and get involved in the L.Jackson/Fremantle trade some way

Id almost consider F2, 22 and F3 for pick 13 and F3

Having played lot of forward Humphry has not had to defend a lot. He will have his limits but he is a lot more of a physical beast who loves the hard stuff.
As for trading up and back. Not really something I put much thought into. Would prefer to keep 4 and take who is available there.

Most players who play a physical style tend to put effort into defending and pressure.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Having played lot of forward Humphry has not had to defend a lot. He will have his limits but he is a lot more of a physical beast who loves the hard stuff.
As for trading up and back. Not really something I put much thought into. Would prefer to keep 4 and take who is available there.

One thing I think we haven't had enough of for a long time is passive defending via being a dominant offensive threat. I think he brings that. He'll draw defenders to him and force them goal side of contests.

 

[Zach Package]

Curnow… ffs

He only skipped a breatho a couple of weeks before the draft, played essentially no footy all year, didn’t have a position, clearly didn’t want to come to Essendon and Carlton had 4 first round picks in that draft.

Spare me

 

[faible]

Parish was definitely best available. Everyone would’ve taken him at our pick

Was the best performed U18 midfielder available in the draft across the entire season, Oliver was considered a little bit of a late run up the board from memory.

 

[FlyingV]

Wardlaw, Humphrey then Tsatas in that order for mine.
Tsatas looks apprehensive when it comes to the physical stuff. Maybe that changes when he bulks up.

Humphrey we’d want to be convinced his tank can be developed… hasnt been a strength of ours.

Side note - would LOVE hollands. If Tsatas is only an outside player there is every chance Hollands becomes better then Tsatas due to his elite aerobic ability.

 

[Keystone agony]

George would be amazing. Immediately onto the long term injury list and give us a chance to take another player in the SSP.

No way im taking George at 13

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

St. Kilda's list is nowhere near bottom 4.

It absolutely is in the mix along with Hawthorn, West Coast, North Melbourne, Adelaide and Gold Coast.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Wardlaw, Humphrey then Tsatas in that order for mine.
Tsatas looks apprehensive when it comes to the physical stuff. Maybe that changes when he bulks up.

Humphrey we’d want to be convinced his tank can be developed… hasnt been a strength of ours.

Side note - would LOVE hollands. If Tsatas is only an outside player there is every chance Hollands becomes better then Tsatas due to his elite aerobic ability.

In comparison to the rest of the TAC cup he is a relatively big body in the midfield so I wouldnt bank on size helping (if physicality is actually an issue of course). He's got a mix of both inside and outside from what I've seen and he is one of the youngest in this crop of draftees so I guess there is additional upside there. His slightly awkward kicking action might be a concern but it doesn't mean he isn't a good kick. There are certainly some reservations as there are with Clark, Humphrey and anyone else in contention at the pick though.

 

[eth-dog]

It absolutely is in the mix along with Hawthorn, West Coast, North Melbourne, Adelaide and Gold Coast.

Not at all. Their midfield probably needs another ball winner but most of the key posts are covered and they have talent across the board

 

[Lore]

https://www.essendonfc.com.au/video/1241488/mahoney-post-season-update?videoId=1241488&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1666689639001

Doesn’t have an article to go with it, but he talks about trading in 24-25 year olds, keeping 4 & 22 in the trade period, sending Francis to Sydney.

Draft stuff is being worked on by Dodoro and RFK. 22 depends on what happens before our pick.

Talks about the Daveys and Munkara training with the club and being in at the club a bit. Good opportunity for us if they nominate us.

Talks about Brad Scott and the involvement with the trade period and getting to know the list.

Players have had their holidays after not having much off-season for a couple of years, some are now in at the club training or following individual programs.



For the most part he says a lot without saying much, but the comments about the Daveys and Munkara are probably the most interesting bit to listen to.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Not at all. Their midfield probably needs another ball winner but most of the key posts are covered and they have talent across the board

They've got one capable ruckman who is injury prone, minimal top end talent (Sinclair, Steele and King) and their young players coming through are hardly anything to get excited about. They are no chance to finish top 8 and a lock for bottom 8. I have them pegged for 13th-15th next year.

 

[Bjchan13]

In fairness we never had a full midfield group at any stage of the year. There was no selection pressure. Truck had his hands tied. There where no VFL games where our midfielders played. He was hardly going to select Lord or Hird or McDonaugh to play midfield when he was under pressure to win games because the likes of Barham and coterie groups where agitating for wins.

Sorry to be blunt but it is not that simple. I coached development for over 10 years. Players play a certain way. I saw it with players I watched in recruiting that went into an AFL system as well. You can get players to do things. Pressure etc. What is difficult is to get them to do things that are not in their nature week in and week out , quarter by quarter . If it is as simple as you say we would not have the conversation. I have spent 20 years trying to figure out why it is not simple at various levels. When I was playing I could never understand why others would not play as hard as I did or why players with 100% more ability than me where wasting their talent by not putting in the same effort.

Parish has a level he will get to. He will try and improve it but he is a ball hunter. That is what he is wired to do. That is what he has been allowed to do. Sides can carry them but you have to have the rest of the group willing to pick up the slack. Trouble is if youa re going to carry a player he had better be Martin or Fyfe or Dangerfield.

I agree on plenty of what you're saying. Trucks hands were tied to a degree with what his options were, but, he has to take his share of responsibility for the teams performance as a whole. He threatened to drop only Shiel, once, and let him play anyway. Parish was allowed to freewheel. As head coach he is in the position to make the statement. If he's worrying about his job or giving into pressure from Barham or coteries and basing his decision making on that then he shouldn't be head coach.

Again im not saying coaching or embedding a defensive mindset is simple. But it can be simplified somewhat with clear and direct messaging and instructions for the playing group. Carlton under Teague and then under Voss is an example. Set standards, keep your message clear and direct and its possible to turn a corner as a group. Some will do it naturally and others will have to be pushed but again, if there's casualties, so be it.

Parish obviously is not at the level of player that he is excused from team defensive duties. He is going to have to sacrifice his numbers for the betterment of the team. Cotchin is the best example i can think of a player changing their game to suit the teams needs. I personally think Darcy has the ability and is young enough to tweak his game enough to be an asset to the team. If he cant or wont he'll be gone in 12 months as a free agent.

Id be happy with Tsatas as he brings outside game to our midfield which i think is what we are lacking. Im not looking at him to be a bull at the contest. We already have Hobbs, Caldwell and Parish to be the ones going head first into the contest to win the ball. So im not passing on Tsatas just because our team defence under Truck was trash. He'd have to be grilled pre draft on his defensive efforts, where he thinks the improvement in his game will come from, how he fits into a defensive set up etc. Will not be disappointed at all with Wardlaw or Humphrey at our pick.

 

[faible]

I agree on plenty of what you're saying. Trucks hands were tied to a degree with what his options were, but, he has to take his share of responsibility for the teams performance as a whole. He threatened to drop only Shiel, once, and let him play anyway. Parish was allowed to freewheel. As head coach he is in the position to make the statement. If he's worrying about his job or giving into pressure from Barham or coteries and basing his decision making on that then he shouldn't be head coach.

Again im not saying coaching or embedding a defensive mindset is simple. But it can be simplified somewhat with clear and direct messaging and instructions for the playing group. Carlton under Teague and then under Voss is an example. Set standards, keep your message clear and direct and its possible to turn a corner as a group. Some will do it naturally and others will have to be pushed but again, if there's casualties, so be it.

Parish obviously is not at the level of player that he is excused from team defensive duties. He is going to have to sacrifice his numbers for the betterment of the team. Cotchin is the best example i can think of a player changing their game to suit the teams needs. I personally think Darcy has the ability and is young enough to tweak his game enough to be an asset to the team. If he cant or wont he'll be gone in 12 months as a free agent.

Id be happy with Tsatas as he brings outside game to our midfield which i think is what we are lacking. Im not looking at him to be a bull at the contest. We already have Hobbs, Caldwell and Parish to be the ones going head first into the contest to win the ball. So im not passing on Tsatas just because our team defence under Truck was trash. He'd have to be grilled pre draft on his defensive efforts, where he thinks the improvement in his game will come from, how he fits into a defensive set up etc. Will not be disappointed at all with Wardlaw or Humphrey at our pick.

Carlton had previously been under Bolton who'd been very strong on defense, which meant Voss wasn't selling a new message, just getting them back on track.

Rutten had very limited cattle to work with, we had Ham being our best performed midfielder in the VFL a number of weeks, who was clearly not an option for dropping Shiel for.

Shiel being 'dropped' sent a sufficient message that the rest of his season saw him improve on that front, and some of our best results came in games where Shiel played on-ball instead of Parish.

 

[Bjchan13]

Carlton had previously been under Bolton who'd been very strong on defense, which meant Voss wasn't selling a new message, just getting them back on track.

Rutten had very limited cattle to work with, we had Ham being our best performed midfielder in the VFL a number of weeks, who was clearly not an option for dropping Shiel for.

Shiel being 'dropped' sent a sufficient message that the rest of his season saw him improve on that front, and some of our best results came in games where Shiel played on-ball instead of Parish.

I never said Voss sold a new message. He set standards and gave direct instruction. The playing group changed their mindset and turned their game around. Im hopeful that Scott can do the same, starting with a big pre season.

Im aware we had limited options as replacements. Ive already acknowledged Truck was in a difficult position. But he is still ultimately responsible as head coach.

I agree Shiels game improved as the season went on. Do you think he improved defensively? Was it due to being demoted to sub for a week? Could this work for Parish? Why was Parish never in Trucks crosshairs?

 

[faible]

I never said Voss sold a new message. He set standards and gave direct instruction. The playing group changed their mindset and turned their game around. Im hopeful that Scott can do the same, starting with a big pre season.

Except they'd had that mindset drilled in to them for a number of years, with a brief reprieve under Teague. It wasn't simply 'set standards and gave direct instructions'.

They also didn't make the finals, despite having the Brownlow and Coleman medalists, and last years Coleman medalist.

Im aware we had limited options as replacements. Ive already acknowledged Truck was in a difficult position. But he is still ultimately responsible as head coach.

Sure, he cops the responsibility but let's at least be aware of the limited options he had at his disposal to make any kind of 'statement'.

People wanted Shiel dropped. People also moaned whenever Ham played. Ham was often our best performed player at VFL level.

Do you think he improved defensively?

Yes.

Was it due to being demoted to sub for a week?

Possibly, along with an increase in on-ball minutes and Parish not being in the side playing selfish unaccountable football.

Could this work for Parish?

Maybe. Depends on Darcy. He's a good player, not a great player.

Why was Parish never in Trucks crosshairs?

You'd have to ask Truck, maybe he was given he got less on-ball minutes when he came back from injury.

 

[Bjchan13]

Except they'd had that mindset drilled in to them for a number of years, with a brief reprieve under Teague.

So what mindset has Truck been drilling into our players for years?

It wasn't simply 'set standards and gave direct instructions'.

Id argue setting standards and giving direct instruction is a huge part of getting your message across. Clear messaging. Your working relationship with the players and the balance between being a mate and boss. Bolton will have left his mark on the players who played under him. Voss is his own coach though.

They also didn't make the finals, despite having the Brownlow and Coleman medalists, and last years Coleman medalist.

I never said they did make finals. They were competitive though and turned their game around under Voss.

Sure, he cops the responsibility but let's at least be aware of the limited options he had at his disposal to make any kind of 'statement'.

I am aware he had limited options in terms of players knocking down the door in the VFL. We discussed it all year.

People wanted Shiel dropped. People also moaned whenever Ham played. Ham was often our best performed player at VFL level.

People want lots of different players dropped for lots of different reasons. The team defence was completely cooked and that wasn't all on Shiel. There was a lot of talk last season and very little action from the entire playing and coaching group.

Yes.

So players can change, even at Shiels age.

Possibly, along with an increase in on-ball minutes and Parish not being in the side playing selfish unaccountable football.

We aren't in disagreement that the midfield is unbalanced or that Parish needs to change his game to suit the team

Maybe. Depends on Darcy.

I think we will find this out within 12 months

You'd have to ask Truck, maybe he was given he got less on-ball minutes when he came back from injury.

I think its because Darcy was one of Trucks favourite players. Straight back in from injury and allowed to free wheel around and do what he likes.

 

[Keystone agony]

The Sydney game is interesting. Probably our best win of the season

Anecdotally they seemed to be really focusing on defensive transition. Parish 21 disposals and the win, also 7 tackles which can be very up and down for him.

To me it felt like the players probably wernt worried about getting a spray from Rutten in front of the group. If my thoughts are right then i strongly doubt the feelings will be the same with scott

Also dont think we necessarily needed to replace Parish with a mid from the VFL to drop him.Thats the biggest fallacy i keep reading. We still had Stringer, Shiel, Zerrett, Perkins, Hobbs, Caldwell which is plenty in the senior side. Half of those guys were playing forward for the majority

Id hope the club would consider a trade down with pick 4 if Tsatas is available and hes not what we want. Not sure if its still a fab four anymore. It seems other players more and more are being considered alongside a Tsatas

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Reports are suggesting we are strong on Mattaes Phillipou. His style of play would be perfect for the balance of our list. If he turned out to be the next Bontempelli/Fyfe then we have struck gold. Chris Doerre (Knightmare) rates him as the second best player in the draft.

 

[Hazardinho]

Reports are suggesting we are strong on Mattaes Phillipou. His style of play would be perfect for the balance of our list. If he turned out to be the next Bontempelli/Fyfe then we have struck gold. Chris Doerre (Knightmare) rates him as the second best player in the draft.

I wish this happens man, Tsatas has red flags that I can’t just dismiss. Phillipou being rated outside the top ten most of the year is a bit disgraceful. Hopefully Dodoro comes through with this.

 

[Corleone]

People asking why Tsatas may not be a good fit ?

Well not everyone has had the chance to go and watch him play live and watch what he does off the ball and how he fits into the team defense . That is the issue when judging him. Sure he looks great in the highlight packages and in the replays of games but it masks his biggest issues. From the games I watched live , yes he is an offensive jet. Decent pace . Kicks both sides . Good clearance player. From all reports really good kid.

What he does not do is defend or even look to defend. Right now he is a one way runner. In many ways he is the 188cm Darcy Parish of his under 18 year. Super offensive player but massively limited at other pats of the game. Some of his defensive efforts I saw where dead set lazy. He did not even look interested in participating . His pressure of the ball can be non existent.
Secondly for a big size midfielder he is not a physical player. Yes he will win a clearance and is strong enough to break the odd tackle but in general he does not use his size to pressure or put any physical pressure on an opponent. His actual physical game is almost Tom Cutler.

My view is what I mentioned earlier. He is a 188cm Darcy Parish who can break out of a clearance a few more times but is certainly not going to crash through packs on a regular basis. Now that is fine for an offensive Jet and he looks like he could be a genuine A grade player but is it where our list is now at ? He is 100% not going to give us a big body / physical midfielder style. So he would be an upgrade / future replacement for Parish or Shiel . So we would still be looking for a big body work horse.

I would not be upset if we ended up picking him as his offensive quality is chart topping but his weakness is our list weakness. Poor defensive actions . Limited pressure . Not great physically .

Wish I could "like" this a million times especially the bolded.

We do not need another defensive liability. We need to recruit the hardest toughest leader available.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

 

[Vindicater]

Ouch eDPS you gone done dirty in the draft board mock draft.

Davey early and then Munkarra at 40...

 

[doug85]

I wonder if we’re more interested in Phillipou if we slide back or trade up into the early teens?

 

[TheGrizz]

Ouch eDPS you gone done dirty in the draft board mock draft.

Davey early and then Munkarra at 40...

Munkara at 40 is a great outcome, we can match it then.

 

[Zach Package]

Wish I could "like" this a million times especially the bolded.

We do not need another defensive liability. We need to recruit the hardest toughest leader available.

This is really interesting, and my take is almost certainly going to be an outlier.

If we accept the findings of the external review and also what our eyes are telling us pretty consistently then for me at least, we’re looking for answers in the wrong place, and to the wrong questions.

‘We already have too many one way runners’ is because (as we have now publicly acknowledged) we are not fit enough or well prepared enough. I don’t want to hear about ‘lazy’ or ‘they don’t want to’, we are physically incapable of doing so.

If we now think we can work on getting the list rock hard fit and running ontop of the ground then we should just be drafting the best available talent and not worrying about the problem that hopefully won’t be a problem in 2 years time.

You don’t jump at a shadow with a top 5 draft pick.