Preview AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:50PM (10 minutes delayed)

[Poetic Justice]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Ditto, Tom Hawkins.

Haven't watched Tom Hawkins much in 2010 then I guess...

 

[Copernicus]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I am having visions of the jPod absolutely tearing apart whoever lines up on him in the expanses of the MCG's forward 50.

I don't think the Saints have the form to beat us at the moment, but they will do their best to strangle the shit out of us. I can see it going two ways - either it's really tight all game, undecided on who wins, or we blow them out of the water. I don't think that result would be a reflection on the gap between the teams in general, but in terms of form, it might be.

 

[GoCattas]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I believe it is so hard to pick our changes for the clash against Saint Kilda.

Who does Mooney come in for? Is Corey far away?

 

[mysainters]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Just thought I'd check in and read the discussion on the upcoming game. Really looking forward to it, and was curious to have a look-see at how Cats fans are viewing it.

For what it's worth, I think it's a misconception we struggle outdoors, in fact some of players love the opportunity to play on the larger grounds that just happen to be outside.

What I find really interesting is the amount of changes in personnel for both sides in such a short space of time, will make for completely different match-ups.

I am very happy with the way our season is trending, I'm confident you are all happy with yours, will be a cracker.

Go Saints

PS - Anybody that get's a consistent game in any AFL teams best 22 is not a dud IMO.

 

[darren forssman]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Ditto, Tom Hawkins.

youse would prefer west over hawkins....the suspenders are killing me.

 

[mcwilrob]

Re: St Kilda versus Geelong, Fri 25th June @MCG

Saints look like they are getting back to their rotten defensive game again. Should be an interesting match to see how we handle the game strangling tactics.

I so want the Cats to show the watching footy world that the fast, attacking, and *fun-to-watch* game plan that Geelong plays succeeds spectacularly against the negative, flooding, etc. plan that certain teams are built on We need to convince all teams that Geelong's success is built on is "playing the game as it should be played."

 

[fpm84]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Ditto, Tom Hawkins.

Kicked as many goals as Reiwoldt, Kosi and Milne combined in the GF. Oh, the pain.

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Kicked as many goals as Reiwoldt, Kosi and Milne combined in the GF. Oh, the pain.

Now that's just cruel

 

[Banked.]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Kicked as many goals as Reiwoldt, Kosi and Milne combined in the GF. Oh, the pain.

Ha, well played. One of those goals shouldn't have been allowed though.

On Zac Dawson, you have to look beyond his football skills when judging him. He is important to our zone structure as he lets Gilbert, Fisher etc. zone off and take marks as 3rd man up.

Looking forward to this game, get to see how we go against the best. Can't say I'm confident though.

 

[corio bay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

On Zac Dawson, you have to look beyond his football skills when judging him.

so do we judge him on his cooking skills?

"Look, Zac might not be the best at spoiling a half-decent forward, but he can whip up a great Thai Green Curry".

 

[mysainters]

Re: St Kilda versus Geelong, Fri 25th June @MCG

I so want the Cats to show the watching footy world that the fast, attacking, and *fun-to-watch* game plan that Geelong plays succeeds spectacularly against the negative, flooding, etc. plan that certain teams are built on We need to convince all teams that Geelong's success is built on is "playing the game as it should be played."

Big misconception there, just because we limit our opponents ability to score, doesn't mean we are not capable of being attacking ourselves. Admittedly we went through a rough patch this year, but our inside 50's, shots on goal, and our number of inidividual goalkickers are all trending in the right direction in recent weeks.

As Tom Harley says 'attack wins memberships, defence wins premierships'

Geelong 'playing the game as it should be played' also has much to do with the fine players you have in defence led by one of the best FB in recent times, one of the best taggers in Ling, and by calculated shut down moves like Bartel onto Hayes in the GF...

I am not embarassed about how St Kilda play the game, and I am sure if we turned back time to when you guys were struggling and had a similar history to the Saints, you wouldn't be either.

I thought our H&A encounter last year was great viewing, and the footy world agreed even though a 'certain team' happened to be playing

Interesting discussion though...

 

[Premiers2007]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Wow, bet you'd be worried about having Dawson out. Absolute dud. Pods would kick 10 on him if Zac was playing. Gram can't kick for crap and Clarke was one of our best players on GF day. Hardly the calibre of the sextet we had missing this week.

Gram is quality player and was clearly St.Kilda's best player in last years Grand Final.

Mooney and Scarlett appear to be the only two inclusions for this game. Will be interesting to see who the outs are. Of the worst players from the Essendon game you would probably say West and Hogan will come out but this would leave us with one ruck.

 

[mysainters]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Gram is quality player and was clearly St.Kilda's best player in last years Grand Final.

Mooney and Scarlett appear to be the only two inclusions for this game. Will be interesting to see who the outs are. Of the worst players from the Essendon game you would probably say West and Hogan will come out but this would leave us with one ruck.

Gram also had an operation on his groin while out injured with his hamstring, an injury he had been carrying for over 12 months and had been affected his running and kicking, very important player for us.

So you are confident of Scarlett returing for this game?

 

[Banked.]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

so do we judge him on his cooking skills?

"Look, Zac might not be the best at spoiling a half-decent forward, but he can whip up a great Thai Green Curry".

When judging a player, you can look at their skill ability, but also their role in the team. While Zac's skills aren't too flash, his importance to the team is underestimated in terms of the role he plays and how he fits into the defence structure.

 

[fpm84]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Gram also had an operation on his groin while out injured with his hamstring, an injury he had been carrying for over 12 months and had been affected his running and kicking, very important player for us.

So you are confident of Scarlett returing for this game?

If we believe what our coach says, Mooney and Scarlett are certain to return and Corey will play as well but it's yet to be decided whether he'll return through AFL or VFL (last game he played was in round 4).

Ottens is expected to return the following week.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Yea pretty confident Scarlett will be back. Balmey was also very confident Corey would be back after break. But yea I would not mind him getting some fitness in the seconds.

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Yea pretty confident Scarlett will be back. Balmey was also very confident Corey would be back after break. But yea I would not mind him getting some fitness in the seconds.

1 part of me thinks Corey should come back thru the 2s, to ease him in, but the other part would love him in against the Saints. Remember his 4th quarter in the GF?
The other thing is it would be an incredibly tough game for a MF to jump back in on.
Tricky team to name next week.
Scarlo for T. Hunt is easy, as is Corey for Hogan (if Joel is in), but Mooney will be tough. Trent West is obvious, but it leaves us only Mark Blake as a legitimate ruck, and no Hawkins as back up.
Could Moons ruck part time again? Not sure the Moondog would be that keen on the idea tbh at his age!
Might depend on who Saints name as rucks. Gardiner and....
Or do we name West and Mooney and Blake...then who else drops out?
You'd be looking at one of Stokes or Byrnes...so unlikely imo.
We'll need loads of run to break the Saints uber-flood.

 

[fpm84]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Lonergan has impressed in the backline this season but I think, horses for courses, he should be omitted for Scarlett.

St K have two big forwards in Kosi and Stanley (an athletic kid who'll be playing his 5th game v us). Scarlett is obvious straight in, and has a very good record on Kosi including the GF. Taylor is perfectly suited to Stanley in the absence of Riewoldt. Harry can match Stanley's athleticism and can hopefully exploit him the other way. In four games, Stanley has kicked just 2 goals and is averaging less than 8 disposals. I am extremely confident putting Harry on him.

Milne and Schneider are the ones that have lifted in Riewoldt's absence and both gave us some headaches in the GF but didn't hurt us too badly on the scoreboard. Hunt, Enright et al will need to lock down on these guys. I'd love to see Kelly play on Milne again - did very well on him in both St K games last year (in round 14 and the GF combined, Milne had 20 touches and kicked 1.5).

Speed is needed to break through their zone and Taylor Hunt must stay in.

IN: Scarlett, Mooney, Corey (if fit)
OUT: Lonergan, West, Hogan

MATCH UPS:

Scarlett - Kosi
Taylor - Stanley
Kelly - Milne
Hunt - Schneider
Enright - McQualter (good chance McQ will be playing as a defensive forward on Boris)

 

[Exhale You]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Lonergan has impressed in the backline this season but I think, horses for courses, he should be omitted for Scarlett.

We found room for both of them early in the year and have long made it clear that our ideal structure includes three tall defensive options so why would Tom suddenly go out when Scarlett returns?

I know it's hard to find a spot for everyone and something has to give but i just can't see us willingly throwing out our tried and true structure of three tall defensive options, especially since it would take away the luxurious option of using Scarlett on the third tall option and taking advantage of his run and creativity from defence.

MATCH UPS:

Scarlett - Kosi
Taylor - Stanley
Kelly - Milne
Hunt - Schneider
Enright - McQualter (good chance McQ will be playing as a defensive forward on Boris)

With no Lonergan, who plays on Gardiner/McEvoy when they inevitably go forward?

 

[CatTricks]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Lonners wont get dropped. He will play on Kosi and Scarlo will go third man up if need be..

 

[fpm84]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

We found room for both of them early in the year and have long made it clear that our ideal structure includes three tall defensive options so why would Tom suddenly go out when Scarlett returns?

I know it's hard to find a spot for everyone and something has to give but i just can't see us willingly throwing out our tried and true structure of three tall defensive options, especially since it would take away the luxurious option of using Scarlett on the third tall option and taking advantage of his run and creativity from defence.

As I said, I think selections should be horses for courses and while Lonergan has done nothing wrong, I don't think it's worth playing him purely for the times when they have a resting ruckman up forward. It was different for the Essendon match - they were always going to play Gumbleton and Hurley up forward and rest Ryder there too, on top of that we didn't have Scarlett. Lonergan was required for that match, and he played well.

I believe St K's current tall forwards in Kosi and Stanley are among the competition's weakest. Obviously Riewoldt back changes all of this.
I see what you're saying about Scarlett, but he has successfully played on Kosi and still provided run and creativity before. A little toe poke in the GF, anyone

Essentially I think we need to load up on quick players. Byrnes and Varcoe proved in the GF that speed is how you break the zone. With Wojac in very good form and Taylor Hunt showing a bit I think all of these players are vital.

As for who will play on the resting ruckman, I think we'd have plenty of options without Lonergan. As I said earlier, I'd back Harry to beat Stanley any day of the week... perhaps we could start with Dasher or Mackie on Stanley and rotate Harry on a number of opponents.

Anyway... it's a nice problem to have, trying to fit multiple AAs and premiership players back in the team!

I'm interested to see who makes way for Moons... while not spectacular, West was serviceable on the weekend and I think a second ruckman is important. But if it's not West, who else could it be?

 

[Exhale You]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

As I said, I think selections should be horses for courses and while Lonergan has done nothing wrong, I don't think it's worth playing him purely for the times when they have a resting ruckman up forward.

That's not why we play him, though.
We play him because it allows us the luxury of being able to use Scarlett on the third tall and use his run and creativity.

He'll play the next game and will likely get the job on Koschitzke.

I believe St K's current tall forwards in Kosi and Stanley are among the competition's weakest. Obviously Riewoldt back changes all of this.

As we've seen many times in the past four years, we generally select our team based upon what's best for us in terms of structure, rather than a reactionary second guessing of how the opposition might structure up.
We back our versatility and structure to get the job done, and whilst it's cost us the odd game it's won us a hell of a lot of games, too.
Rightly or wrongly, that structure includes three tall defensive options which means Tom Lonergan is in our best team right now.

I see what you're saying about Scarlett, but he has successfully played on Kosi and still provided run and creativity before. A little toe poke in the GF, anyone

Scarlett can beat anyone in the game and can still hurt them going the other way, but the club clearly believe having three tall defensive options is the best way to get the most out of Matthew at this stage of his career, a belief that has been proven again and again.

Essentially I think we need to load up on quick players. Byrnes and Varcoe proved in the GF that speed is how you break the zone. With Wojac in very good form and Taylor Hunt showing a bit I think all of these players are vital.

We'd all like to have as much pace as possible in the team but for me it's nor worth breaking our structures to achieve it.
I'm firm in the belief that you get your structures right and then find players that compliment that structure, in our case that's guys like Stokes, Byrnes and Wojcinski.

As for who will play on the resting ruckman, I think we'd have plenty of options without Lonergan. As I said earlier, I'd back Harry to beat Stanley any day of the week... perhaps we could start with Dasher or Mackie on Stanley and rotate Harry on a number of opponents.

Harry can beat anyone, but as for having Mackie on Stanley? Please no.

Mackie has been consistently and hopelessly beaten in one-on-one contests of late, often against smaller opponents.
At times he's not even been able to make the contest, let alone attempt to spoil.
In light of recent form, putting him on any of St.Kilda's 200cm players (all of whom can play forward) would be suicidal.

I'm interested to see who makes way for Moons... while not spectacular, West was serviceable on the weekend and I think a second ruckman is important. But if it's not West, who else could it be?

Yep, that's the intriguing one for me.
I suspect they'll continue with West and have Mooney replace Hogan (assuming Smithy isn't ready, of course).

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Kicked as many goals as Reiwoldt, Kosi and Milne combined in the GF. Oh, the pain.

Whilst you've taken the bait, I think we all know he kicked 1 and was lucky to have one paid that hit the post. The man himself has admitted it.

Looking forward to this one.

Enjoy.

 

[TommyJay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Should be a cracking game! Would be great to have 80,000 plus there. Collingwood v Melbourne draw yesterday means that this is a top-of-the-table clash again, really looking forward to it.

We've been finding some form again after a disastrous month, but I still question whether we can take it up to Geelong. I'm confident on this form that we'd beat any other team, including Collingwood (I don't rate them as highly as their fans manage to...) but Geelong just have more class all over the ground. Having said that, with outs to you guys it helps the Saints a lot, but remembering that we have some big outs too. Don't underestimate how important Dawson is for our structure and how good Gram can be, even if he's not playing 100% to have another quick option with a huge kick. Ultimately though, I don't think the oppositions teams having outs will help either of us. You can't learn about what kind of game the other team is playing to use it when it matters. Having said that, Geelong have looked shakier than I thought they might at this point against Eagles and others, and I think that adds to the excitement of the contest.

I also think that it's a bit of a misconception that we have this 'uber-flood'. We certainly did a few weeks ago, against Port, Dogs, then Carlton, however if it weren't for almost sheer luck (in the Dogs game) we would have been 0-4 during this period. Since then we've definitely tried to attack more, and scrapped the mega-flood, and now we're 4-0 in the last month. Don't mistake good defence for flooding in the last four weeks. What has been winning us games is our defence around the middle of the ground/our forward line in preventing teams to even get it up their end.

Good luck to your boys, really looking forward to Friday night on the big stage!

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Should be a cracking game! Would be great to have 80,000 plus there. Collingwood v Melbourne draw yesterday means that this is a top-of-the-table clash again, really looking forward to it.

We've been finding some form again after a disastrous month, but I still question whether we can take it up to Geelong. I'm confident on this form that we'd beat any other team, including Collingwood (I don't rate them as highly as their fans manage to...) but Geelong just have more class all over the ground. Having said that, with outs to you guys it helps the Saints a lot, but remembering that we have some big outs too. Don't underestimate how important Dawson is for our structure and how good Gram can be, even if he's not playing 100% to have another quick option with a huge kick. Ultimately though, I don't think the oppositions teams having outs will help either of us. You can't learn about what kind of game the other team is playing to use it when it matters. Having said that, Geelong have looked shakier than I thought they might at this point against Eagles and others, and I think that adds to the excitement of the contest.

I also think that it's a bit of a misconception that we have this 'uber-flood'. We certainly did a few weeks ago, against Port, Dogs, then Carlton, however if it weren't for almost sheer luck (in the Dogs game) we would have been 0-4 during this period. Since then we've definitely tried to attack more, and scrapped the mega-flood, and now we're 4-0 in the last month. Don't mistake good defence for flooding in the last four weeks. What has been winning us games is our defence around the middle of the ground/our forward line in preventing teams to even get it up their end.

Good luck to your boys, really looking forward to Friday night on the big stage!

Flood/zone/frontal pressure...call it what you like but it is essentially a rolling chess board of a zone ahead of the ball. Saints have taken what Clarko started and applied it ruthlessly and consistently. They have way more mental discipline than the Hawks, so it still works for them. It seems to me though that Hawthorn tried to run from defence whereas Saints are more inclined to kick long and accurate to space, a la Goddard.
It is very much good defence, but it is horrible to watch as a spectator. I admire the players for having the mental discipline to stick to it, but I feel sorry for them. All that work, subjugation of flair and nothing to show for it.
It will be a greta game though. I still think St Kilda are the only team with the capabilities to challenge us at our best. They just get the job done.
But I feel we have improved significantly from last year in key areas that will particularly help against St Kilda.
Josh Hunt's kicking will be critical, as is his ability to nullify a small forward like Milne or Schneider. Wojinski's good form and run is a huge asset for zone breaking.
Pods is the sticky handed goal kicking machine that we have lacked. God help Zac Dawson if he gets Pods....it won't be pretty.
And Varcoe's newly acquired grunt and presence.
And let's not forget SJ was missing in RD 14 last year and was severely hampered in the GF, even though he was important in the last quarter.
Not sure where the improvement is at St Kilda tbh, particularly without Roo.