News AFL to hit Brendan Fevola with Long ban if guilty of sexual assault

[bluesfan95]

It would be funny if instead of the 'great' 3 superstar forward line, they would go into round 1 with only Jonathan Brown.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Not sure how this could ruin her career? If anything in the "unfortunate" journo world of today, it may further it. Coming from a woman's perspective, I can definitely see how it could affect her emotionally (when it happened), and be very humilating to be the "cause" of someone's suspended career in the AFL. Not that I know anything about this woman, but if it was me, I would be pretty forgiving. I don't know any one of my friends who hasn't had a "normally nice" guy act like a dick because he's drunk at the bar. He was drunk and it's not the same as when a guy sexually harrasses while sober. I'm not trying to excuse his alcohol fueled behaviour, but maybe the girl justs wants to "forgive and forget"...holding no grudges. That is what I would have done...but it seems to me, that the AFL and the media are almost "pushing" her, and in my opinion, this is the harrassment we should be questioning at this point.

In the closed shop that is AFL it is not unknown for reporters to be "shunned", unofficially blackballed if you like. Certain players, old school players would/could make life difficult or at the least unpleasant for a female reporter (or any reporter for that matter) if they felt so inclined. For example whenever she interviewed them they could give monosyllabic answers so as to be "boring" so that they are not interviewed by her again yet 5 minutes later give someone else an in depth and entertaining interview.

I fully understand how she might feel that, having stated she wishes to continue her career as an AFL reporter, that she would not want to jeopardise that with any ill will toward her.

I dont pass any judgement on her for that, rather I am saddened that this attitude would still exist and that she even has to make such a consideration.

I also dont believe that anyone ought to "get away" without scrutiny and sanction if necessary on the basis of any victim not wanting to pursue the matter. In France, they dont have an adversarial system, and it is the magistrates task, similar to a coroner here, to gather evidence and then hear the case, and criminals can and are prosecuted regardless of whether the victim wants to proceed. A crime, any crime is not just a crime against the victim but against the social contract we all make to live in an ordered society.

Its time the system changed so that this question of weighing up the pros and cons of pursuing justice dont arise in future. Being a sports star or a popular personality ought not afford any protection, in fact the opposite, they ought be held to higher standards than the rest of us.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I think you misread me, I meant that she may have the greatest morals
on earth, but for her own reasons, does not want to take it further.
I never said that made her morally less accountable.



I agree with you here, its her own decision to do nothing if thats what is
right for her. However I also believe if more women did make an issue
of drunken sexual abuse, then it can only help all women. But cant argue
with you on the personal decision thing.


Agree with you again here about the anon side of things, and that is
most unfortunate if that option has now been removed. Heres where I
disagree, how would one's career (especially one involved in the media)
suffer damage to their career. They are the victim and cant be seen any
other way. I would think if anything it would strengthen support for her.

Anyway, as I said before, I sincerly hope she is ok.

As I mentioned to Bluebird, if players saw her as some sort of man hating, anti player, whatever, I dont know what goes through some of their heads but I am sure you understand what I mean, locker room talk that simpletons get involved in. And they take a set against her for the reason her complaints resulted in Fev being sanctioned, then the way they interact with her could be damaged to the point where she cannot fulfil her role as a reporter. If as I said before, everytime she interviewed certain players they gave simple, monosyllabic boring answers then sooner or later the employer her would be forced to deploy her elsewhere. She values her career and can see this as a possible outcome and does not wish to go there. Is that reason enough, if Fev (or anyone else in a similar situation) is guilty of something that they ought to get a pass on the crime? I dont think so.

You say you dont pass any judgement on her, but you do. You say if more/all women made an issue of drunken sexual assault, and I agree but, they really ought not have to risk anything in order to pursue their rights. But in our adversarial system, in order to make a complaint, their integrity comes into questions, in the most personal and in some ways degrading way.

In our system, an accused has the right to confront their accuser, but lawyers have turned this around so far that the accusers morality is often called into question to the point where they are painted as the person with the poor morals in cases that have a sexual nature. More to our shame.

 

[Bluebird28]

But in our adversarial system, in order to make a complaint, their integrity comes into questions, in the most personal and in some ways degrading way.

quote]

Unfortunately, it sucks, but we don't live in a world that saves people from having their integrity questioned when they want to stand up for something they believe in...but at least in this country they have the choice to decide. Whatever the issue is, it usually doesn't change until someone decides to take action regardless of the social implications he/she may face.

Honestly, though, I have a feeling this woman probably isn't "emotionally" devasted. Really, it is rare for a woman not to experience some form of harrassment from a drunk guy in her lifetime.

 

[40yearBLUE]

But in our adversarial system, in order to make a complaint, their integrity comes into questions, in the most personal and in some ways degrading way.

quote]

Unfortunately, it sucks, but we don't live in a world that saves people from having their integrity questioned when they want to stand up for something they believe in...but at least in this country they have the choice to decide. Whatever the issue is, it usually doesn't change until someone decides to take action regardless of the social implications he/she may face.

Honestly, though, I have a feeling this woman probably isn't "emotionally" devasted. Really, it is rare for a woman not to experience some form of harrassment from a drunk guy in her lifetime.

Whether this particular woman is emotionally devastated is only a matter for her. But unfortunately this case could have the effect of saying to another victim of another (or the same) drunken and in particular, a sports star, that there is no point following through with your complaint, they usually get off or nothing is seen to be done about it.

And that it is rare for a woman not to have to endure harassment from a drunk guy is an indictment on us all. People are as free in France as they are here, but they dont have the same issues (at least I dont think so, I have never lived there) that I highlighted earlier, that are the negatives of the adversarial system.

The one saving grace for me, is that our club drew a line in the sand and got rid of him. I like to think they new all about this and this was too much for them to accept and they did the right thing.

 

[goreds]

But in our adversarial system, in order to make a complaint, their integrity comes into questions, in the most personal and in some ways degrading way.

quote]

Unfortunately, it sucks, but we don't live in a world that saves people from having their integrity questioned when they want to stand up for something they believe in...but at least in this country they have the choice to decide. Whatever the issue is, it usually doesn't change until someone decides to take action regardless of the social implications he/she may face.

Honestly, though, I have a feeling this woman probably isn't "emotionally" devasted. Really, it is rare for a woman not to experience some form of harrassment from a drunk guy in her lifetime.

I think the question is, how did she end up in the toilet in the 1st place??

The journo in question was said to be 'tagging' Brendan for the night. The question is, did her employer tell her to follow him at all costs or was she doing it to get a story?

This in no-way excuses Brendan 'if' he did anything, but this is his defence..

We will never know what happened in the 'toilet-gate' situation, but, we do know the journo/HeraldSun employee will be keeping low until this thing blows over...

I think this explains the HeraldSuns's headline, 'Good riddance'!

 

[Bluebird28]

I guess for me, I hate how women are always being seen as "the victim". In today's society they are starting to use this wrongfully to their advantage. For example, I know this is completely irrelevant, but I hate it when you see women taking men in divorce/de-facto cases for all they are worth. It makes me sick, because they are woman they can bring every excuse in the book...oh abuse, oh harrassment, oh all the money he has. All they have to do is mention one fight they got in where he yelled at her, and the court is on her side.

As for the journo thing...who knows...she could have been totally flirting up a storm with him. That is what makes me mad...often they don't tell the guy's side of things. Woman are usually the instigators! We are a sneaky breed, us women! Haha! And, usually get away with it!!

 

[Bluebird28]

I think the question is, how did she end up in the toilet in the 1st place??

quote]

Well, there ya go! Truth comes out! Where did you hear/read this goreds?

 

[Bluedude]

I think the question is, how did she end up in the toilet in the 1st place??

The journo in question was said to be 'tagging' Brendan for the night. The question is, did her employer tell her to follow him at all costs or was she doing it to get a story?

This in no-way excuses Brendan 'if' he did anything, but this is his defence..

We will never know what happened in the 'toilet-gate' situation, but, we do know the journo/HeraldSun employee will be keeping low until this thing blows over...

I think this explains the HeraldSuns's headline, 'Good riddance'!

Ahh !!! Suddenly 30YearBlue's stance takes on a new dynamic...
So this chick followed Fevola into the dunnies for a bit of quick
"hows your father"...... Yup. I can see how that would damage her
career and why she would not want to come forward.

If Fev was a total non role for society at the Brownlow's, then
getting followed into the mens room (in an obvious drunken state)
shows the class of journalism we are dealing with here....
(And is questionably lower than Fev's behaviour !!)

If I was her I would be shutting up too !!!

You know what pisses me off ?? I bet the AFL goons were threatening
Carlton about this particular incident to the point of "Fevola will be
prosecuted for sexual abuse" If true, and Carlton did the right thing,
we are due for some bigtime compo from the organization.....

 

[40yearBLUE]

Ahh !!! Suddenly 30YearBlue's stance takes on a new dynamic...
So this chick followed Fevola into the dunnies for a bit of quick
"hows your father"...... Yup. I can see how that would damage her
career and why she would not want to come forward.

If Fev was a total non role for society at the Brownlow's, then
getting followed into the mens room (in an obvious drunken state)
shows the class of journalism we are dealing with here....
(And is questionably lower than Fev's behaviour !!)

If I was her I would be shutting up too !!!

You know what pisses me off ?? I bet the AFL goons were threatening
Carlton about this particular incident to the point of "Fevola will be
prosecuted for sexual abuse" If true, and Carlton did the right thing,
we are due for some bigtime compo from the organization.....

If you believe the conspiracy theories that some apologists post you will believe anything.

It wasnt actually Fev that followed her into the toilets, Fev was abducted by aliens years ago and they stole his body, it was a martian, using Fevs body.........

Spare me. Get some evidence and we can talk. The communications manager of our premier sporting organization would not be making such statements if there was not sufficient evidence to avoid Fev counter suing for defamation.

But hey, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories and little pink elves you go right ahead.

 

[Bluedude]

30YearBlue,

So without the real evidence on the "bigfooty.com" table signed
and witnessed by the appropriate authorities, what do you
personally think went down ? Or would you be also *ahem* speculating ?

Honestly, I would love to hear your take.

 

[OldBlueFan]

If you believe the conspiracy theories that some apologists post you will believe anything.

It wasnt actually Fev that followed her into the toilets, Fev was abducted by aliens years ago and they stole his body, it was a martian, using Fevs body.........

Spare me. Get some evidence and we can talk. The communications manager of our premier sporting organization would not be making such statements if there was not sufficient evidence to avoid Fev counter suing for defamation.

But hey, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories and little pink elves you go right ahead.

Remarks like this would hold a lot more water 30YB if you were presenting some facts yourself. In all of the posts you have here, I see many assumptions, opinions and judgements, but I don't see the facts upon which these are based.

About the only thing we know for certain is that Fev followed a woman into a toilet on a night when he was behaving outrageously towards other people. Beyond that, everything else is hearsay I thought.

 

[Carnthe]

Do you think Brisbane maybe has paid this unamed female alot of money to STFU. Carlton have paid Fevola. Move along people, nothing to see here. Wouldn't surprise me, we live in a plutocracy after all.

 

[40yearBLUE]

30YearBlue,

So without the real evidence on the "bigfooty.com" table signed
and witnessed by the appropriate authorities, what do you
personally think went down ? Or would you be also *ahem* speculating ?

Honestly, I would love to hear your take.

I told you my take in my previous post. I said "I like to think" (indicates I dont have all the information I need to make a fully informed decision), that the club (that does have the information) drew its line in the sand and made the right decision.

Thats my take.

I also place more weight in "officials" of either the AFL or CFC having a better grasp of what happened than the rumour mongers and I take my cues from their actions, the Club literally "sacked" Fev, they telegraphed their intention to trade him, which many believed would have weakened their negotiating position but it at the same time made a strong statement, they would not do that if there was nothing in the actions of Fev and the noises being made by Anderson under the imprimatur of the AFL. Again organisations dont leave themselves open to suits or allegations of victimisation of marquee players without having the weight of evidence behind them. Note also that Fev and or his management have not issued any denials (but having said that, just because someone does not deny they did something does not mean they did).

 

[40yearBLUE]

Remarks like this would hold a lot more water 30YB if you were presenting some facts yourself. In all of the posts you have here, I see many assumptions, opinions and judgements, but I don't see the facts upon which these are based.

About the only thing we know for certain is that Fev followed a woman into a toilet on a night when he was behaving outrageously towards other people. Beyond that, everything else is hearsay I thought.

Correct, we dont know. But like said in my other reply moments ago, do you prefer to place your faith in the rumour mongers and conspiracy theorists or the institutions such as the AFL and the club? Your choice. I have clearly made mine.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Do you think Brisbane maybe has paid this unamed female alot of money to STFU. Carlton have paid Fevola. Move along people, nothing to see here. Wouldn't surprise me, we live in a plutocracy after all.

Quite possible. Wouldn't be the first time, just ask big Jack. Lets hope not. You would think we have moved beyond that by now.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Correct, we dont know. But like said in my other reply moments ago, do you prefer to place your faith in the rumour mongers and conspiracy theorists or the institutions such as the AFL and the club? Your choice. I have clearly made mine.

Neither the club, nor the institution has come out and said anything pertaining to the facts of the incident. Therefore everything that is being argued is based upon remarks made by conspiracy theorists of one bent or another.

The difference is that you have written volumes about the situation here and passed several judgements upon a situation for which you are now admitting you don't have all the facts.

If you are going to pass judgement in as extreme a fashion as you have here, then I would think that some facts would be helpful.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Neither the club, nor the institution has come out and said anything pertaining to the facts of the incident. Therefore everything that is being argued is based upon remarks made by conspiracy theorists of one bent or another.

The difference is that you have written volumes about the situation here and passed several judgements upon a situation for which you are now admitting you don't have all the facts.

If you are going to pass judgement in as extreme a fashion as you have here, then I would think that some facts would be helpful.

I have the most critical fact I need. The club sacked him (traded with a pre-emptive announcement). They made the judgment, I trust their combined wisdom. I dont have to prove he did or did not do anything.

Like I said, for the third time, I have decided who I would rather take my cues from, in this case the media and the AFL via the announcement that Fev will face severe penalty should he be found guilty...... and that they have offered counseling, (you dont offer counseling if nothing happened), and the fact the club all but sacked Fev.

Finally, the Age and the Hun hate each other, and if the Age thought there was nothing in this they would have reported it or editorialized on it by now. The opposite, the Age is running with the story as hard as the Hun. What does that tell you? There is something there, and Fev is only saved by the fact the girl does not want to pursue it, but they know what happened was much worse than some apologists would have you believe.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I have the most critical fact I need. The club sacked him (traded with a pre-emptive announcement). They made the judgment, I trust their combined wisdom. I dont have to prove he did or did not do anything.

Like I said, for the third time, I have decided who I would rather take my cues from, in this case the media and the AFL via the announcement that Fev will face severe penalty should he be found guilty...... and that they have offered counseling, (you dont offer counseling if nothing happened), and the fact the club all but sacked Fev.

Finally, the Age and the Hun hate each other, and if the Age thought there was nothing in this they would have reported it or editorialized on it by now. The opposite, the Age is running with the story as hard as the Hun. What does that tell you? There is something there, and Fev is only saved by the fact the girl does not want to pursue it, but they know what happened was much worse than some apologists would have you believe.

All you have here are assumptions.

1. The club announced that they would trade him before anything came out about this alleged "serious" incident. Therefore, it's entirely possible they had made that decision based on everything else that went on that night. There are certainly enugh people who believe that it was warranted.

2. The AFL is first and foremost a political institution. They have the "reputation of the game" to consider among other things. Therefore it is equally possible that they are making political announcements. Further they have said that he would face severe penalties if he was found guilty of some alleged offences, this does not mean that these alleged offences occurred. As for the offer of counselling, this is the bare minimum of what they have to do in order to be seen as a "responsible" organisation (see previous remark about the politics).

3. Finally, the Age and the HUN are both media institutions and will keep reporting and opining upon a story as long as it sells papers. Regardless of their feelings toward one another they are both in the business of making money. They are also full of people who are more than happy to take a limited amount of fact, add a liberal dose of rumour and a smattering of outright fabrication and prove that 2 + 2 = 379 (not unlike yourself). Are you telling me that you've never known media establishments who take one half-baked story, embellish it a little and start a spiral that makes the whole thing sound far worse than it turns out to be?

I don't know what happened on that night and I doubt that any of us ever will, but at least I'm not hanging someone out to dry based on rumour. You wax lyrical about justice systems in your earlier posts; what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

 

[40yearBLUE]

All you have here are assumptions.

1. The club announced that they would trade him before anything came out about this alleged "serious" incident. Therefore, it's entirely possible they had made that decision based on everything else that went on that night. There are certainly enugh people who believe that it was warranted.

2. The AFL is first and foremost a political institution. They have the "reputation of the game" to consider among other things. Therefore it is equally possible that they are making political announcements. Further they have said that he would face severe penalties if he was found guilty of some alleged offences, this does not mean that these alleged offences occurred. As for the offer of counselling, this is the bare minimum of what they have to do in order to be seen as a "responsible" organisation (see previous remark about the politics).

3. Finally, the Age and the HUN are both media institutions and will keep reporting and opining upon a story as long as it sells papers. Regardless of their feelings toward one another they are both in the business of making money. They are also full of people who are more than happy to take a limited amount of fact, add a liberal dose of rumour and a smattering of outright fabrication and prove that 2 + 2 = 379 (not unlike yourself). Are you telling me that you've never known media establishments who take one half-baked story, embellish it a little and start a spiral that makes the whole thing sound far worse than it turns out to be?

I don't know what happened on that night and I doubt that any of us ever will, but at least I'm not hanging someone out to dry based on rumour. You wax lyrical about justice systems in your earlier posts; what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

I am not hanging anyone anywhere. And I dont much care what else happens to Fev, I have the one thing I wanted, him out of our club. (although I admit I would be happier if he was sacked from AFL football but I have had that opinion long before brownlow night).

Whatever happens from here will be what it is. I have opinions like anybody else here, but like everybody else here they are based on not the entire story. I have read between the lines we have and made my opinion, you are free to make yours. In the end I dont much care. What will happen next will happen regardless of what you or I think will happen or think of what does happen.

 

[40yearBLUE]

All you have here are assumptions.

1. The club announced that they would trade him before anything came out about this alleged "serious" incident. Therefore, it's entirely possible they had made that decision based on everything else that went on that night. There are certainly enugh people who believe that it was warranted.

2. The AFL is first and foremost a political institution. They have the "reputation of the game" to consider among other things. Therefore it is equally possible that they are making political announcements. Further they have said that he would face severe penalties if he was found guilty of some alleged offences, this does not mean that these alleged offences occurred. As for the offer of counselling, this is the bare minimum of what they have to do in order to be seen as a "responsible" organisation (see previous remark about the politics).

3. Finally, the Age and the HUN are both media institutions and will keep reporting and opining upon a story as long as it sells papers. Regardless of their feelings toward one another they are both in the business of making money. They are also full of people who are more than happy to take a limited amount of fact, add a liberal dose of rumour and a smattering of outright fabrication and prove that 2 + 2 = 379 (not unlike yourself). Are you telling me that you've never known media establishments who take one half-baked story, embellish it a little and start a spiral that makes the whole thing sound far worse than it turns out to be?

I don't know what happened on that night and I doubt that any of us ever will, but at least I'm not hanging someone out to dry based on rumour. You wax lyrical about justice systems in your earlier posts; what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

I am not hanging anyone anywhere. And I dont much care what else happens to Fev, I have the one thing I wanted, him out of our club. (although I admit I would be happier if he was sacked from AFL football but I have had that opinion long before brownlow night).

Whatever happens from here will be what it is. I have opinions like anybody else here, but like everybody else here they are based on not the entire story. I have read between the lines we have and made my opinion, you are free to make yours. In the end I dont much care. What will happen next will happen regardless of what you or I think will happen or think of what does happen.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I am not hanging anyone anywhere. And I dont much care what else happens to Fev, I have the one thing I wanted, him out of our club. (although I admit I would be happier if he was sacked from AFL football but I have had that opinion long before brownlow night).

Whatever happens from here will be what it is. I have opinions like anybody else here, but like everybody else here they are based on not the entire story. I have read between the lines we have and made my opinion, you are free to make yours. In the end I dont much care. What will happen next will happen regardless of what you or I think will happen or think of what does happen.

Firstly, a man who demostrates more empathy than many others on the football field and in society in general (just when not drunk) is accused of having none:

"I dont think it will affect Fev as much, if you dont have the common sense or empathy with others to not do such things in the first place, then it follows that you would not be so concerned about the consequences either before or after the fact as others would."

Next it seems "unlikely" that Fev didn't do anyting untoward:

"if Fev did not do anything untoward, (that would seem unlikely, no-one is denying including Fev himself, that something happened, its just a matter of whether it was criminal and or if any further action will be taken)"

Now it's a "nasty" incident:

"And on top of that she may well be suffering (or not, it does not really matter) other effects of this nasty incident."

And finally anyone that posts anything other than the "party" line are apologists and conspiracy theorists:

"If you believe the conspiracy theories that some apologists post you will believe anything."

The sum total of your posts on this issue are definitely an argument in favour of hanging Fev and then in your last post you admit that you've harboured these feelings for a long time:

"although I admit I would be happier if he was sacked from AFL football but I have had that opinion long before brownlow night"

Perhaps you should have started with that comment, then we would all understand where you're coming from, rather than attempting to elicit a more balanced opinion from you.

 

[bluesforever]

get a room you two

 

[Bluebird28]

I like OldBlueFan's avatar!

 

[40yearBLUE]

Firstly, a man who demostrates more empathy than many others on the football field and in society in general (just when not drunk) is accused of having none:

"I dont think it will affect Fev as much, if you dont have the common sense or empathy with others to not do such things in the first place, then it follows that you would not be so concerned about the consequences either before or after the fact as others would." Many a murderer lived a double life, doing good in other places neither absolves him or mitigates the damage he does when "bad" Fev is on the loose.

Next it seems "unlikely" that Fev didn't do anyting untoward:

"if Fev did not do anything untoward, (that would seem unlikely, no-one is denying including Fev himself, that something happened, its just a matter of whether it was criminal and or if any further action will be taken)" No, you are right, for the entire evening Fev was just misunderstood.

Now it's a "nasty" incident:

"And on top of that she may well be suffering (or not, it does not really matter) other effects of this nasty incident." No, this was just another Monday night on the tiles for her, I mean I have lost count of the number of times my wife has been dragged into the female toilets by a male and accosted. (facts not in dispute, I would say)

And finally anyone that posts anything other than the "party" line are apologists and conspiracy theorists:

"If you believe the conspiracy theories that some apologists post you will believe anything." Do I really have to repeat to you again, you choose which crackpots you will believe, I will choose mine.

The sum total of your posts on this issue are definitely an argument in favour of hanging Fev and then in your last post you admit that you've harboured these feelings for a long time:

"although I admit I would be happier if he was sacked from AFL football but I have had that opinion long before brownlow night" Its hardly a secret, I have been posting such comments on here for quite some time, in fact I started a thread on the subject mid year. I see you like to do your research

Perhaps you should have started with that comment, then we would all understand where you're coming from, rather than attempting to elicit a more balanced opinion from you.

I doubt this debate has anything left in it. I have said my piece, you are free to believe what you like, as I am. I have pretty much made my mind up on the tidbits of information I have, and failing some revelation I wont be changing it because a bunch of BF bloggers happened to like the guy.