News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[Saab NLAW]

Only because they didn't pay anything close to a fair price.

Gold Coast and other Northern teams, and soon Tasmania, developing and accessing local talent is good for the game.

What isn't good for the game is being able to access these players for 50% of their value.

Increasing the value of higher picks would resolve 95% of the fairness issues and should have been done years ago.

What isn't good for the game is select clubs having a recruiting zone, everyone knows it

 

[tombomb]

What isn't good for the game is select clubs having a recruiting zone, everyone knows it

The annual feeding frenzy on the GWS and Gold Coast lists by Victorian clubs isn't good for the game either, everyone knows it.

 

[Saab NLAW]

How are the Northern Academies being exploited and some links to back it up, please.

Kalani White available as an Academy selection is a start. Mills to Sydney another one.

There's been plenty.

The annual feeding frenzy on the GWS and Gold Coast lists by Victorian clubs isn't good for the game either, everyone knows it.

That's a ridiculous post, GWS has never been able to fit all their talent under the cap. This is what happens when you give a club unlimited supply to talent

Also doesn't explain the Sydney Academy rort

 

[.Shotties.]

Kalani White available as an Academy selection is a start. Mills to Sydney another one.

That would be Mills who was playing Union before the academies? You think it's a rort because his grandad played WAFL?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It's been half discussed but do we think we could ever get to a stage where there are basically two drafts, the points pool and the open draft? You have trade period, then you have the players that are linked to father / sons or academies go into a live auction where teams can bid on the player, some obvious discount for those tied to your club but not enough that it's not impossible for teams to outbid you if they REALLY like them. Finally, you pay your draft points and we go to the open draft?

Convoluted? Absolutely but damn as a draft / trade nerd would I not find it fun as ****

Some important rules off the top of my head would be needing to use top 10, 1st round, 2nd or 3rd rounds picks at specific thresholds of points bid so that you dont have to hurt your top 10 pick for someone bid on for the value of a 3rd but you'd also find it very hard to "double dip" by getting multiple top 10 picks because of academy players (ie GC last year)

 

[Saab NLAW]

That would be Mills who was playing Union before the academies? You think it's a rort because his grandad played WAFL?

The same Mills whose mum publicly admitted that he was always going to play football, he spent his whole youth carrying a football with him and was only playing rugby to be with his school mates. The same Mills whose grandfather was Ray Mills, a WA footy great, the same Mills who barracked for Sydney since he was a little kid

Yeah that one, such an obvious rort and an absolute joke of the competition that Sydney gets a recruiting zone. Btu as I said, without massive AFL assistance, clubs like Sydney can never be successful.

 

[FreeAgent1]

The same Mills whose mum publicly admitted that he was always going to play football, he spent his whole youth carrying a football with him and was only playing rugby to be with his school mates. The same Mills whose grandfather was Ray Mills, a WA footy great, the same Mills who barracked for Sydney since he was a little kid

Yeah that one, such an obvious rort and an absolute joke of the competition that Sydney gets a recruiting zone. Btu as I said, without massive AFL assistance, clubs like Sydney can never be successful.

Interesting take.

Agree in relation to compromised draft. But it’s like saying VIC clubs wouldn’t win if they had to travel properly or the MCG didn’t host the GF.

It’s not an even comp. Never has been, but it’s more even than it has been before.

SA/WA clubs get the most screwed, so they have genuine valid complaints. All the tears from VIC teams are laughable.

 

[.Shotties.]

The same Mills whose mum publicly admitted that he was always going to play football, he spent his whole youth carrying a football with him and was only playing rugby to be with his school mates.

Assuming that is true, was he actually playing football?

The same Mills whose grandfather was Ray Mills, a WA footy great, the same Mills who barracked for Sydney since he was a little kid

Yes, that's him. He wasn't playing football before the academy, and even if he was, there wasn't a talent pathway for him if the academy wasn't there.

Yeah that one, such an obvious rort and an absolute joke of the competition that Sydney gets a recruiting zone. Btu as I said, without massive AFL assistance, clubs like Sydney can never be successful.

Have Melbourne build their list from interstate players for the next 30 years and have zero access to Victorian players in the first two rounds and you can have a zone which has the participation rate of Sydney's lower north shore in 2009. I'd be all for it.

 

[Saab NLAW]

Interesting take.

Agree in relation to compromised draft. But it’s like saying VIC clubs wouldn’t win if they had to travel properly or the MCG didn’t host the GF.

It’s not an even comp. Never has been, but it’s more even than it has been before.

SA/WA clubs get the most screwed, so they have genuine valid complaints. All the tears from VIC teams are laughable.

Interesting take. Show me how Melbourne has benefitted from the MCG GF deal? Or perhaps you'd like to compare how many games a year Melbourne has a genuine home ground advantage compared to Sydney's? Or perhaps show me when Melbourne has had a COLA which enabled us to poach the best forward on the modern era. I guess not.

Compare those tears to the tears from Sydney fans if you dare to suggest their recruiting zone is a rort, kind of what you're doing right now

/shrug

 

[Saab NLAW]

Assuming that is true, was he actually playing football?

Yes, that's him. He wasn't playing football before the academy, and even if he was, there wasn't a talent pathway for him if the academy wasn't there.

Have Melbourne build their list from interstate players for the next 30 years and have zero access to Victorian players in the first two rounds and you can have a zone which has the participation rate of Sydney's lower north shore in 2009. I'd be all for it.

His mum fully admitted that he was always going to play AFL, the academies were originally sold to the comp as a way of getting kids without an AFL background into the sport.

It's a rort and everyone knows it, thankfully the AFL have dispensed with the bullshit excuses and don't pretend it's anything other than a way to artificially improve the Swans. And we all know if Sydney's performance drops of their fans will dump them in a heartbeat and the AFL wants the media money from NSW and Qld.

To suggest it is based on anything other than money is hilarious. Watching Sydney fans froth at the mouth defending it with bullshit reasons is also very funny to watch

 

[.Shotties.]

His mum fully admitted that he was always going to play AFL, the academies were originally sold to the comp as a way of getting kids without an AFL background into the sport.

Was he playing football at the time? It's a yes or no question. It was actually sold as a way to increase intake into the AFL from NSW and QLD.

The idea that it was solely for kids who'd never even seen a football was put forward by cranks trying to discredit it.

Case in point: Mills. Wasn't actually playing football at the time, probably wasn't hugely likely to make it to the AFL, given the opportunities on the North Shore at the time.

It's a rort and everyone knows it, thankfully the AFL have dispensed with the bullshit excuses and don't pretend it's anything other than a way to artificially improve the Swans.

Really? Where?

To suggest it is based on anything other than money is hilarious. Watching Sydney fans froth at the mouth defending it with bullshit reasons is also very funny to watch

Jesus, talk about projection. You're in here typing paragraphs about how everyone is angry except you.

 

[FreeAgent1]

Interesting take. Show me how Melbourne has benefitted from the MCG GF deal? Or perhaps you'd like to compare how many games a year Melbourne has a genuine home ground advantage compared to Sydney's? Or perhaps show me when Melbourne has had a COLA which enabled us to poach the best forward on the modern era. I guess not.

Compare those tears to the tears from Sydney fans if you dare to suggest their recruiting zone is a rort, kind of what you're doing right now

/shrug

Just to clarify you are saying a significantly reduced need to travel interstate is a dis advantage?

MCG GF - with exception of WCE in ‘18 you need to go back to swans winning in ‘12 for a non VIC team premiership. I’ll concede there is some COVID years in there but for 50% of the comp that isn’t in VIC to have one 1 premiership in last 12 years…… yeah it’s the academies that are unfair you are right, my bad.

 

[Dangerousfield]

The AFL is not a level playing field but I know one thing for certain, the Vic clubs have more in their favour than any if the non Vic clubs. GF at the MCG is a massive advantage when it's your home ground/home city.

Like having the vast majority of their lists being of Vic origin negating the go home that all non Vic sides constantly face, particularly the four northern clubs which is why academies were created, to increase participation in the game north of the Murray and to assist northern clubs in having more home grown players on their lists.

We all know the bidding system is a farce, but that's a separate matter and being addressed. Remember the farce also helped Pies (Vic club) get Daicos for a bag of junk picks, Bulldogs (Vic club) get JUH and Darcy for a bag of junk picks.

Any Vic club supporter whinging about northern academies is truly not interested in any type of fairness.

 

[mpal6]

This won't happen. I think the AFL knows that the Swans on particular seem to benefit from the
A grade talent they get, Gold Coast do as well now ( and GWS did well before the Riverina was removed from the recruiting zone).

Yep, never do the straight forward fix. Always go for the nightmare permutations and combinations, keep the mess rolling year after year.

Doing this would mean Swans, GWS, Lions and Suns will be forced to invest in project / fringe players who need to be incubated longer before they see some realistic outcome. There will be more Wicks (Swans project), Coleman (missed draft as 18yo, stayed in VFL and got drafted next year) and Payne (another project player) rather than Heeney and Campbell type easy top end pickings. In my opinion that's the real reason for Academy. Give the fringe players a chance and if they make it, you reap the rewards for the investment.

 

[Saab NLAW]

Just to clarify you are saying a significantly reduced need to travel interstate is a dis advantage?

MCG GF - with exception of WCE in ‘18 you need to go back to swans winning in ‘12 for a non VIC team premiership. I’ll concede there is some COVID years in there but for 50% of the comp that isn’t in VIC to have one 1 premiership in last 12 years…… yeah it’s the academies that are unfair you are right, my bad.

Just to clarify, you're saying a significantly reduced home ground advantage isn't an advantage?

FFS you lot are amazing, Paul Roos when he was coach at Sydney repeatedly stated that he believed travelling more was an advantage because there were together as a group more.

Paul Roos, your coach.

MCG GF - with exception of WCE in ‘18 you need to go back to swans winning in ‘12 for a non VIC team premiership. I’ll concede there is some COVID years in there but for 50% of the comp that isn’t in VIC to have one 1 premiership in last 12 years…… yeah it’s the academies that are unfair you are right, my bad.

I love how yo ucompletely ignore my question to you. Show me in the last 20 years which year Melbourne directly benefitted from playing the GF at the MCG? I know you'll ignore this again because you can't because it hasn't happened.

If I had a choice I would go with having an academy and a massive home ground advantage over playing the GF at the G and travelling 2 or 3 times less. Imagine a team like us with our own recruiting zone, being able to train kids in our system for year before they get drafted. What a flipping rort that Sydney has a recruiting zone, just as a bad as the COLA

 

[Saab NLAW]

Doing this would mean Swans, GWS, Lions and Suns will be forced to invest in project / fringe players who need to be incubated longer before they see some realistic outcome.

So just like all the other clubs huh? Poor Sydney, imagine if they had to compete on a level playing field, oh the humanity!!

 

[mpal6]

So just like all the other clubs huh? Poor Sydney, imagine if they had to compete on a level playing field, oh the humanity!!

Sydney have been open to let go drafting from traditional AFL states like Victoria, SA and WA. They believed in their academy system and over time they can create enough players just from NSW. AFL rejected this idea. This proposal was much more radical back in 2008/09 when NSW talent pathway wasn't that clear.

Swans had plan to pull out of draft

Sydney would have completely withdrawn from the national draft and started recruiting exclusively from New South Wales under a radical proposal put to the AFL.

www.theage.com.au

Swans would have been pioneers if they were allowed to do it as they would've taken a major risk drafting exclusively from NSW. It wasn't all Swans benefiting from every way possible, they showed initiative to just buy-in to their academy and go ahead with drafting exclusively from NSW.

 

[ScrewInStuds]

Saab NFI: "carrying a football as a child is an elite talent pathway".

Genuine clown.

 

[Ants]

I've been thinking about it and I think every club in the country should be given an Academy.

However, change the rules for the academy a bit, make it possibly, but quite a bit more expensive to draft a player from your academy in the first two rounds, maybe even make it so you can only match the bid of one of your academy kids in the first round.

That would produce so much more talent than the current system. There would be a lot of bleed over too, for instance, say Hawthorn have two really good top players in this draft, but because of the rules they can only actually afford to match the bid on one of them, so the other really talented kid gets drafted to someone else.

I think it could work.

You know zones were a failure?

 

[Ants]

What isn't good for the game is select clubs having a recruiting zone, everyone knows it

I’d disagree. Getting more NSW and QLD kids playing the game and following it is clearly good for the game. It’s just not good for the other clubs.

 

[Farang83150]

FFS you lot are amazing, Paul Roos when he was coach at Sydney repeatedly stated that he believed travelling more was an advantage because there were together as a group more.

BS

 

[BloodySwan]

Just to clarify, you're saying a significantly reduced home ground advantage isn't an advantage?

FFS you lot are amazing, Paul Roos when he was coach at Sydney repeatedly stated that he believed travelling more was an advantage because there were together as a group more.

Paul Roos, your coach.

Can you show me this quote he kept repeating? I've read all his books, followed him immensely and never come across this quote. Very curious about it

 

[Crankyhawk]

The AFL is not a level playing field but I know one thing for certain, the Vic clubs have more in their favour than any if the non Vic clubs. GF at the MCG is a massive advantage when it's your home ground/home city.

Like having the vast majority of their lists being of Vic origin negating the go home that all non Vic sides constantly face, particularly the four northern clubs which is why academies were created, to increase participation in the game north of the Murray and to assist northern clubs in having more home grown players on their lists.

We all know the bidding system is a farce, but that's a separate matter and being addressed. Remember the farce also helped Pies (Vic club) get Daicos for a bag of junk picks, Bulldogs (Vic club) get JUH and Darcy for a bag of junk picks.

Any Vic club supporter whinging about northern academies is truly not interested in any type of fairness.

The AFL did go on to fix the **** up that led to JUH being eligible
The same needs to be done to the Northern academies (so first round picks can't be matched)

 

[Ash1337]

The AFL did go on to fix the heck up that led to JUH being eligible
The same needs to be done to the Northern academies (so first round picks can't be matched)

Please. AFL did nothing to fix the problems of NGA beyond draft bidding which has screwed over legitimate NGA prospects getting picked up by their club. All it did threw a bandage on a cut. All they had to do was put in better restrictions and players like JUH wouldn't have been NGA eligible.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Please. AFL did nothing to fix the problems of NGA beyond draft bidding which has screwed over legitimate NGA prospects getting picked up by their club. All it did threw a bandage on a cut. All they had to do was put in better restrictions and players like JUH wouldn't have been NGA eligible.

Can you expand on this? For me the issue has always been draft bidding- that if a player is a first round talent they shouldn’t be denied to any club willing to use their first rounder - and I’m also now getting there with father son too.