News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[Jirik13]

I would agree with anyone that says last year was a bit excessive, but I think we'll see that 2023 was very much an outlier in terms of the amount of first round picks a northern academy will produce in a single draft class. As of right now there's one Suns academy player rated inside the top 50 picks for this year's draft.

Just wait for 2025 with 5 Suns and 2 Lions academy kids projected top 25. Vic media, fans will go crazy.

We got to remind them that top 4 finish means max 1 match and 5-8 max 2 matches in first round
I would probably make it 0 and 1 match and make the same rule for F/S (big no from Vic fans).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Good question. The northern academies can at least argue that they've put a fair amount of money towards developing those players into draftable prospects and therefore potentially deserve some kind of discount. The F/S development programs are far less involved when compared to the northern academies.

Not really sure this is a relevant argument if spending money meant you could just avoid the equality nature of the draft. West Coast could claim that they could just use all of their excess money and start whatever academy and get draft preference, if they wanted, given that they can't really spend their millions in profit on anything else in a footballing sense/

 

[Stamos]

Why is there still a 20% discount for example?

It goes back to the original mathematics of the points values.
Once they fix the points curve, then they can reassess the correct discount.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The more you think about it the more ridiculous a discount for academy and FS is. Just absolutely no need for it.

 

[Stamos]

The more you think about it the more ridiculous a discount for academy and FS is. Just absolutely no need for it.

So you don't think that you should be able to match a bid with the very next pick?
You should need to add more?

I don't agree with that, I think that a discount is right.
How much that discount should be can only be calculated after they fix the points scale.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So you don't think that you should be able to match a bid with the very next pick?
You should need to add more?

I don't agree with that, I think that a discount is right.
How much that discount should be can only be calculated after they fix the points scale.

Yeh why do they need a discount? You already have an advantage over the rest of the competition by getting the rights to a player but for some reason they then get a discount….. I don’t get.
If you hold the very next pick then the points to be made up is so small it hardly has any affect, unless it’s say getting the number one pick when you have pick 2 which a 500pt reduction just seems like a crazy advantage.

 

[Stamos]

Yeh why do they need a discount? You already have an advantage over the rest of the competition by getting the rights to a player but for some reason they then get a discount….. I don’t get.
If you hold the very next pick then the points to be made up is so small it hardly has any affect, unless it’s say getting the number one pick when you have pick 2 which a 500pt reduction just seems like a crazy advantage.

Fair enough, but I think a discount still makes sense.

What if a bid happens late in the draft, and your picks after then have zero value?
You shouldn't be able to match? Or you have to use a higher future pick?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If a player gets a bid in the third round and you don’t have picks then it just comes off your third rounder the next season. If you’re still short then the remaining points off the future second round pick which would unlikely move that pick anyway.

Fair enough, but I think a discount still makes sense.

What if a bid happens late in the draft, and your picks after then have zero value?
You shouldn't be able to match? Or you have to use a higher future pick?

I just don’t get why sides need an advantage on top of an advantage

 

[Stamos]

If a player gets a bid in the third round and you don’t have picks then it just comes off your third rounder the next season. If you’re still short then the remaining points off the future second round pick which would unlikely move that pick anyway.


I just don’t get why sides need an advantage on top of an advantage

It incentivises the investment in the junior players.

If you can't even match a bid with the following pick, the rights will only still be an advantage for a much smaller number of players, and the whole process becomes much less worthwhile for clubs to bother with.

The problem isn't with there being a discount, it's that clubs have not had to pay a fair price, because the points scale is wrong.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It incentivises the investment in the junior players.

If you can't even match a bid with the following pick, the rights will only still be an advantage for a much smaller number of players, and the whole process becomes much less worthwhile for clubs to bother with.

The problem isn't with there being a discount, it's that clubs have not had to pay a fair price, because the points scale is wrong.

As long as there is a discount then you don’t pay a fair price.
Ex players kids don’t take any investment from the AFL clubs, they are born with a leg up already. Academy’s will still be worthwhile because it stops the go home factor.

 

[Stamos]

As long as there is a discount then you don’t pay a fair price.

I don't agree.
The picks and points are pretty arbitrary.
If a club bids on your player with say pick 35, and you have pick 38 to match, you don't think that's a fair price?

 

[sydney_gws]

The GC and GWS had cap issues after their kids all became good players. No different to any other club.
Now, why is it that Sydney don't tend to bleed talent back to other states, but GWS does? Why is it that Brisbane no longer has an issue, and in fact has attracted a number of high quality players to go there, while GC still has an issue?
Why should the competition suffer because GC is a s**t show?

I think the fact GWS have lots of top 5 picks means they get extra big offers. Some of swans good players are local academy players, others lower draft picks like Parker, Josh Kennedy.
Also swans crowds are better, they don't have to travel to Canberra.

 

[sydney_gws]

Just wait for 2025 with 5 Suns and 2 Lions academy kids projected top 25. Vic media, fans will go crazy.

We got to remind them that top 4 finish means max 1 match and 5-8 max 2 matches in first round
I would probably make it 0 and 1 match and make the same rule for F/S (big no from Vic fans).

I would make it 3 top 20 matches allowed over 2 years, or something like that.
Gold Coast would only take 2 last year , save one for Lombard this year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I would make it 3 top 20 matches allowed over 2 years, or something like that.
Gold Coast would only take 2 last year , save one for Lombard this year.

1 per round for me, and to be eligible for a second you have to TRADE into that round. The issue isn't this though it's the points curve, no one would care how many players clubs got if they weren't getting them for 2c in the dollar, these mid picks are horribly over valued. Fix that first, don't worry about restrictions on how many until you fix the curve. A bunch of picks in the 30's should NOT be worth a top 2-4 pick!

 

[Jirik13]

The GC and GWS had cap issues after their kids all became good players. No different to any other club.
Now, why is it that Sydney don't tend to bleed talent back to other states, but GWS does? Why is it that Brisbane no longer has an issue, and in fact has attracted a number of high quality players to go there, while GC still has an issue?
Why should the competition suffer because GC is a s**t show?

From the players Suns wanted to keep they only lost Rankine in the past 5 years. When players reach 5-6 years without success then the issue starts.

IMO, when Suns play finals (still big if) they will be able to attract quality players similar to Lions. GC is a great place to work.

I would not characterise Suns as a s**t show now. E.g., they are above Crows on the ladder and beat Crows in round 1 while often having the youngest line-up and still learning a new system.

I suspect injection of 5 high quality academy kids (Walter, Read, Rogers, Graham, Clohesy) this year will have profound impact on Suns in next 1-3 years.

Suns are going OK.

 

[Bestbird]

Another issue draft wise, in particular VicMetro draftee's is the strong desire to stay in their home state. Due to this teams outside of Victoria as a strategy prefer recruiting Vic country over metro players due to retention issues

 

[Taylor]

I think the club taking the academy player should get the choice, either they pay extra (+20%) value for the priority access to the talent within the first forty picks or they get them for 20% discount but the player is an unrestricted free agent for life every time they come out of contract.

Academy clubs still get access to their players but so does the rest of the competition later, or the academy club pays a bit extra for the luxury of getting priority access to the player.

 

[Taylor]

Father Son picks should have no discount or penalty but academy clubs aren't able to take one these players as an academy player since they aren't new to football if their father played five seasons of it or in the case of a player like Gulden, if their parents literally work in footy.

That's not growing the game, that's a leg up for academies.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't agree.
The picks and points are pretty arbitrary.
If a club bids on your player with say pick 35, and you have pick 38 to match, you don't think that's a fair price?

It’s about 50pts different so it would down grade another pick by the same margin. If there isn’t much difference then what does it matter if a latter pick is downgraded by the same margin?
By the same token if it’s pick 1 getting matched with pick 3 then that’s a huge advantage. It’s like getting an extra first round pick worth of value for nothing.

Put simply though if the discount isn’t substantial then why does it matter if you don’t get one? Much better to try and make it as fair as possible imo.

Edit. The better the kid the bigger the discount clubs get. That’s exactly what shouldn’t be happening

 

[GC2015]

Just wait for 2025 with 5 Suns and 2 Lions academy kids projected top 25. Vic media, fans will go crazy.

We got to remind them that top 4 finish means max 1 match and 5-8 max 2 matches in first round
I would probably make it 0 and 1 match and make the same rule for F/S (big no from Vic fans).

That will never happen. Imagine a team like Carlton finishing top 4, or even top 8 like you've suggested, and losing first round access to both Camporeale twins - it just won't happen. If you assume the Suns will make finals next year, then 3-4 of the best prospects coming out of our academy are open slather for the rest of the league and the Suns will only get 1 or 2 of them. Don't think there will be much complaining when/if that occurs.

Not really sure this is a relevant argument if spending money meant you could just avoid the equality nature of the draft. West Coast could claim that they could just use all of their excess money and start whatever academy and get draft preference, if they wanted, given that they can't really spend their millions in profit on anything else in a footballing sense/

Did West Coast dedicate a lot of money to their NGA back when they were given first and second round access to the graduates? I know the NGAs and northern academies are different, but I'm just curious to know if they ever valued priority access to draftees in the way that you've described.

 

[tiger_tough]

I'd like to see father son selections just be added to the list with your last pick like it used to be.

Keep the convoluted bs bidding for academy selections if need be. Just make it you can only match 1 in each round or something.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

That will never happen. Imagine a team like Carlton finishing top 4, or even top 8 like you've suggested, and losing first round access to both Camporeale twins - it just won't happen. If you assume the Suns will make finals next year, then 3-4 of the best prospects coming out of our academy are open slather for the rest of the league and the Suns will only get 1 or 2 of them. Don't think there will be much complaining when/if that occurs.


Did West Coast dedicate a lot of money to their NGA back when they were given first and second round access to the graduates? I know the NGAs and northern academies are different, but I'm just curious to know if they ever valued priority access to draftees in the way that you've described.

WCE put a lot of money into there NGA program Phil Narkle was integral to it at first
But when there coaching salary cap came in it effected it as they had to cut back a lot of programs
But the club use the club sponsors to help BHP Rio Tinto Mineral Resources all onboard helping out

 

[Buget]

I'd like to see father son selections just be added to the list with your last pick like it used to be.

Keep the convoluted bs bidding for academy selections if need be. Just make it you can only match 1 in each round or something.

So Daicos, who is a gun, would have gone to Collingwood for somewhere around pick 52.

Sounds fair.

 

[tiger_tough]

So Daicos, who is a gun, would have gone to Collingwood for somewhere around pick 52.

Sounds fair.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Swings and roundabouts.

Is that another way of saying advantages Vic sides