News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It would almost solve the problem but the only thing is it’s fairer to make teams use a certain amount of picks because it makes them use picks closer to the bid meaning earlier draft picks get eaten up by matching which stops teams getting pushed back in the draft.

Eg would be if Campo, Welsh, Ashcroft and Lambard are bid on at 6,7,8 and 9 and are all matched with picks after 22 then it pushes the bottom 4 sides second rounders back by 4 picks. If they need to get much closer to those bids because they only have two picks to match we might see a situation where those bottom 4 sides early second rounders only get knocked back by 1 or 2 spots because better picks are used to match


Edit. We need it to work so that if you have pick say 27 in the draft you are getting as close to the 27th best talent in the draft as possible. Not the 35th or some crap that we have seen.

In theory, those teams who get pushed down also get pushed up later in the draft. The issue is when late picks get knocked out and other teams move up, but moving up in the 40's and 50s is not meaningful at all because the talent levels and values of picks are so low. That also gets solved by fixing up the points curve, because to match a pick 6, 7, 8, 9, you can't match it with pick 39, or if you will, you'll need to match it with more picks at that level.

Teams matching pick 9 will have to match it with 3 or 4 picks in the 20s and 30s, not the 2 or 3 currently, giving a random pick 32 an opportunity to jump up to pick 28 or 29, rather than 29 or 30 as current.

 

[Taylor]

Agree also no trades after the draft commences opening more spots than a team has vacated. It's pretty simple.

A rule change like this, including the one requiring as many open list spots as matching number of picks, actually cuts the feet off the rest of the competition benefiting (and therefore equalising) the impact of northern academy access.

If a team with a collection of later picks can swap them to Sydney for a top fifteen pick, that is a win for everyone and if any team is able to plan to do that, any team can benefit.

 

[tombomb]

It would almost solve the problem but the only thing is it’s fairer to make teams use a certain amount of picks because it makes them use picks closer to the bid meaning earlier draft picks get eaten up by matching which stops teams getting pushed back in the draft.

Eg would be if Campo, Welsh, Ashcroft and Lambard are bid on at 6,7,8 and 9 and are all matched with picks after 22 then it pushes the bottom 4 sides second rounders back by 4 picks. If they need to get much closer to those bids because they only have two picks to match we might see a situation where those bottom 4 sides early second rounders only get knocked back by 1 or 2 spots because better picks are used to match


Edit. We need it to work so that if you have pick say 27 in the draft you are getting as close to the 27th best talent in the draft as possible. Not the 35th or some crap that we have seen.

The reason why I am so against this idea is because the AFL will use it as an excuse not to properly fix the points table - which is the actual problem.

So we will end up with the scenario of team still being able to double, and sometimes triple, dip.

 

[Obeanie1]

I care about winning premierships mate, may be your priorities are different - can't help you there.

Run home from this round onwards:
Carlton - 3 games at MCG
Essendon - 4 games at MCG
Collingwood - 7 games at MCG
Melbourne - 5 games at MCG
Bulldogs - 0 games at MCG
Sydney - 0 games at MCG
Brisbane - 1 game at MCG
Geelong - 2 games at MCG
GWS - 2 games at MCG
Fremantle - 1 game at MCG

Of all finals bound teams, there is a clear advantage in fixture for certain clubs prior to the big event. This may seem like a non-factor to you, this is the type of inequality that is littered across the competition. Why should Swans get zero games at MCG from July through to finals and then show up to that ground on last day of september and expected to win? Can you ever fix this?

you are having a massive whinge about "academy rort, academy rort, academy rort" like a stupid parrot, while turning a blind eye to everything else out there.

Like I posted in many of my earlier posts - I am all for fairness, make first round pure like they do in other competitions. But in return bring travel equality, fixture equality before trivializing MCG advantage in finals that certain clubs seem to carry all season.

You would know what a massive whinge is.

If it's so unfair for your Lions how come they have been consistantly playing finals and now a grand finals?

Mate, the AFL even held the grand final at the GABBA after stagng half a season in QLD.when the Lions were peaking.

How much more do you want?

 

[mpal6]

You would know what a massive whinge is.

If it's so unfair for your Lions how come they have been consistantly playing finals and now a grand finals?

Mate, the AFL even held the grand final at the GABBA after stagng half a season in QLD.when the Lions were peaking.

How much more do you want?

Bit pointless discussing with you if you can't see both sides.
Off you go on ignore.

 

[mpal6]

A rule change like this, including the one requiring as many open list spots as matching number of picks, actually cuts the feet off the rest of the competition benefiting (and therefore equalising) the impact of northern academy access.

If a team with a collection of later picks can swap them to Sydney for a top fifteen pick, that is a win for everyone and if any team is able to plan to do that, any team can benefit.

Nah, that's not the intent with the crowd here though. Sydney should use and lose their top 15 pick on their player and rest move on with their later picks. There'll be no trade if Sydney had to hold a pick in first round to match for their player.

It'll be funny as they would have just revised the pick match model to when Heeney was drafted, bid on pick 2 and I think they matched with their late first rounder - which caused a furore back then and AFL tried to change things again.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

In theory, those teams who get pushed down also get pushed up later in the draft. The issue is when late picks get knocked out and other teams move up, but moving up in the 40's and 50s is not meaningful at all because the talent levels and values of picks are so low. That also gets solved by fixing up the points curve, because to match a pick 6, 7, 8, 9, you can't match it with pick 39, or if you will, you'll need to match it with more picks at that level.

Teams matching pick 9 will have to match it with 3 or 4 picks in the 20s and 30s, not the 2 or 3 currently, giving a random pick 32 an opportunity to jump up to pick 28 or 29, rather than 29 or 30 as current.

If you believe the value of earlier picks being much more important then later ones then it’s clear getting knocked down the order early in the draft has a bigger affect then moving up the draft order later in the draft.
What happened to West Coast last year is an absolute joke.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

A rule change like this, including the one requiring as many open list spots as matching number of picks, actually cuts the feet off the rest of the competition benefiting (and therefore equalising) the impact of northern academy access.

If a team with a collection of later picks can swap them to Sydney for a top fifteen pick, that is a win for everyone and if any team is able to plan to do that, any team can benefit.

That means it can benefit two sides and hurt 16, the same as FA compensation

 

[Taylor]

That means it can benefit two sides and hurt 16, the same as FA compensation

It opens the field up to those clubs who don't have academy players or father sons to pay for to get some value.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It opens the field up to those clubs who don't have academy players or father sons to pay for to get some value.

And the 16 clubs that don’t get in on the deal? They all lose?

 

[Taylor]

And the 16 clubs that don’t get in on the deal? They all lose?

The other clubs all get the opportunity to benefit if they can bring a deal to the club looking to bring in the academy or father son pick.

Should I figure out how long it's been since each club brought in a father son pick? A whole load of clubs are going to lose out on watching clubs bring their picks in this off season already.

Allowing THOSE clubs the ability to extract some value for them makes it more fair, not less.

 

[.Shotties.]

Age reporting this is likely. Extremely unfair to Melbourne and also hawthorn to have changed the rules and then changed them back so quickly

Why? Sorry, but what level of investment did those clubs put into two players who were in talent pathways before either of the clubs were on the scene. Multiple Victorian clubs trying to add players into their academies before draft night says everything you need to know about them.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The other clubs all get the opportunity to benefit if they can bring a deal to the club looking to bring in the academy or father son pick.

Should I figure out how long it's been since each club brought in a father son pick? A whole load of clubs are going to lose out on watching clubs bring their picks in this off season already.

Allowing THOSE clubs the ability to extract some value for them makes it more fair, not less.

You are ignoring the actual fact of the final outcome. 2 out of 18 sides benefit while possibly hurting 16 other sides.

 

[Taylor]

Why? Sorry, but what level of investment did those clubs put into two players who were in talent pathways before either of the clubs were on the scene. Multiple Victorian clubs trying to add players into their academies before draft night says everything you need to know about them.

Your thoughts on Errol Gulden being an academy member?

 

[.Shotties.]

Your thoughts on Errol Gulden being an academy member?

The one who came through the Swans Academy, the only elite development pathway in the eastern suburbs of Sydney and who'd been in it from the age of 11, the first possible opportunity? Fine, why?

 

[Taylor]

You are ignoring the actual fact of the final outcome. 2 out of 18 sides benefit while possibly hurting 16 other sides.

We are comparing 17/18 sides not benefiting to any of the other sides who want to get involved being able to.

The destabilising element is the access to the academy or father son player - not trying to spread around the wins later.

 

[Taylor]

The one who came through the Swans Academy, the only elite development pathway in the eastern suburbs of Sydney and who'd been in it from the age of 11, the first possible opportunity? Fine, why?

The one who's parents were Victorian, one who actually worked at the Swans and was the reason he was in the academy zone at all.

The purpose of the academy isn't to give priority access to AFL talent.

 

[.Shotties.]

The one who's parents were Victorian,

His dad is Turkish, born and raised.

one who actually worked at the Swans

She joined the club in 2021, if I recall accurately.

and was the reason he was in the academy zone at all.

What? He was born and raised in Maroubra, joined the academy at 11 and played all his junior football for the Maroubra Saints.

The purpose of the academy isn't to give priority access to AFL talent.

Okay?

 

[Profop]

Wasn’t today the day they were meant to announce what is going to happen?

If the AFL running their mouth turns into nothing changing this year then it’s just been a dogs breakfast from a comms point of view

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The one who's parents were Victorian, one who actually worked at the Swans and was the reason he was in the academy zone at all.

The purpose of the academy isn't to give priority access to AFL talent.

Then remove the discount and fix the points system. Swans would have paid market value for Gulden. Many people can agree on that.

Gulden being part of a Swans academy is both to provide NAB League/WAFL U18/SANFL U18 system talent development systems in the Northern States, and to provide branding and reinforce the relationship of AFL supporters in the region surrounded by bigger sports. Nobody's ever claimed its about "getting new talent into the system", other than a random coach or whatever blowing hot air to talk up the system when some random ex-Basketballer would be "lost to the system". Odds comments is not the foundation of which it was based.

 

[Taylor]

Nobody's ever claimed its about "getting new talent into the system"

That has been the claim from the very beginning.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

That has been the claim from the very beginning.

Take one of the earliest intakes of the Lions academy:

Hyundai Lions Academy 2011 squad

The Hyundai Lions Academy squad for the 2011 season has been finalised, with 146 players selected to take part in Academy programs next year.

www.afl.com.au

"The Hyundai Lions Academy squad for the 2011 season has been finalised, with 146 players selected to take part in Academy programs next year.

The Academy is designed for young footballers between the ages of 11 and 18 and its objective is to fast-track their AFL development by providing elite coaching, training, facilities, infrastructure, support, advice and analysis.

The ultimate aim of the Hyundai Lions Academy is to increase the amount of talented footballers in Queensland and provide a direct pathway into the Brisbane Lions via the National Draft, the Rookie Draft and the Pre-Season Draft"

The emphasis is on the high-quality training and development, with nothing to do with the fact that it is used as a strategic arm against other sports.

Academies to boost local talent

A new performance academy system for the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast, Sydney Swans and Team GWS will exist from 2011

www.sydneyswans.com.au

"Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos said the academies would alleviate the frustration faced by clubs in the northern states in trying to keep prospective draftees committed to Australian football.

"We get an enormous amount of talented young kids but there are an enormous amount of challenges as they get through to the draft age," he said.

"It is important to be able to go to the kids and say there is a Sydney Swans academy, you are able to come in and we are able to take them ... right through to draft age … and be able to promise them a position on the Swans' list."

I'm not saying code wars etc. wasn't mentioned, GWS mention it, but the primary concern was the talent development of any given AFL-footballer to get them to the AFL level, especially in the context of the fact that it created a disadvantage for Swans etc that they virtually had to relocate every player that was on their list in the mid 2000's.

 

[Taylor]

The ultimate aim of the Hyundai Lions Academy is to increase the amount of talented footballers in Queensland

Exactly

 

[.Shotties.]

Taylor can you please shed some more light on your wildly inaccurate comments on Gulden? Were you trying to imply that he was parachuted into an academy zone by his parents or something?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Exactly

Yes. Taking a typical 11 year old kid playing U13 football in Queensland/NSW, as also exists in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia and making them "talented" in a relative sense against their southern state counterpart as their southern state counterpart both receives higher quality talent development, and also simply does not drop out of football.

That increases the amount of talented footballers in Queensland.

Statistically speaking the players who entered the AFL system vs. the number of kids on the edge of being a kid/teenager actively playing club football (U11/12/13) was disproportionate. There were several years in the mid 2000s that no single NSW kid was drafted, with a couple of players on either side of the draft drafted very late, which makes little sense that half a dozen or so top-40 talented kids in the country in a given year should have found themselves born in NSW. We don't know which kid is the one born in 1988 in Sydney running around playing U13 in 2001 and then not drafted in 2006 as they either didn't get the quality coaching or dropped out of the game, but had the raw talent to be a superstar of the game, as plenty of later Sydney players proved. There wasn't a huge increase in U11 players running around in NSW in 2011 as there was in 2001 to suggest that the uptick of draftable players can be attributed to anything other than the high quality of the draft itself.