Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

[Lore]

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[TheGrizz]

eDPS hasn't done his 2022 thread yet, but a quick look over the others on the draft board and it looks like it's a pretty midfield heavy draft early on.

It might be mid heavy at this stage, but Logan McDonald wasn't a top 10 pick at the start of his draft year for example.

I am not saying we have to take a KPF, I am just saying I am not sure our KPP stocks as is should preclude us from doing so. I personally think we have a couple of roles we need filling.

 

[eDPS]

eDPS hasn't done his 2022 thread yet, but a quick look over the others on the draft board and it looks like it's a pretty midfield heavy draft early on.

I won’t be doing my own thread but my rankings will be up on my socials Which will likely find its way here

 

[citizen-erased]

well i mean if Francis and co don't learn to kick straight soo n suppose i wouldn't be opposed to cutting them.

Francis is a defender though.
And a great kick when he's coming out of defence. turning him around now and asking him to be a key forward and aim for the sticks is different. and nothing i ever saw/read about him being good as a junior.

i'd keep a backline of;
Ridley Reid Kelly
Hind Laverde Francis
7th defender of ? (Heppell, Redman, someone?) + McGrath getting back as a defender

Francis is better than Heppell given he moves better and can defender, and better than Redman as he can defend and dispose of the ball.
why he's not back baffles me.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Unpopular opinion but I would be looking at key forward with our first round draft pick this year


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It's so hard to know where we are currently at with our talls. I hope we find out a bit this year.

 

[fairbump_playon]

I think a major goal this year as a club is filtering through our tall stocks to see who is worth keeping and who isnt.

For example, if Cox and Reid project as key defenders, do we need both Brand AND BZT going forward as KPD depth with Stewart, Laverde and Ridley on the list?
Or, going forward, is having BZT and Stewart just going to take valuable game time at VFL and senior level away from Reid/Cox/Brand in KPD posts and so do we want to cut bait with one as holdover depth.

And up forward what the hell have we got? We have Baldwin (19), Eyre (20) and McBride (20) who we know bugger all about whether any are viable long term options.
Jones looks the part but just can't stay on the park and how long do we carry Francis forward if it isn't even his best position (which is 3rd tall defender btw)? Wright is probably the only locked in KPF we have right now.

So we have a lot of quantity, but a lot of question marks about quality. I would expect there will be a bit of a cull of our KPP stocks this year with a few OOC.

Also, if we have a top 8 pick and an Aaron Naughton/Ben King type is available (Naughton was pick 9, King pick 6 for reference), I dont think there is any KPF on our list that is talented enough to make me feel comfortable passing on him at his point

We have a lot of questions in regard stocks our KPPs going forward, and one of our major priorities for me this year is figuring out who is worth keeping and who isnt, because our list balance is out of whack as you said.

100% agree. Well summed up!

We seem to have talls in bulk rather than a couple of outstanding prospects (Reid aside)

Hard to see a superstar emerging out of Brand, McBride & Eyre but who could know

 

[faible]

Hard to see a superstar emerging out of Brand, McBride & Eyre but who could know

All were quite late picks, or rookies, so it was always unlikely they'd be a superstar.

 

[Duckworth]

I really don't think we have room for any more talls on our list without cutting another tall, and since most of them are really young, you'd be cutting a guy who isn't fully developed just for the sake of hitting the reset button.

It's likely Hurley would be gone by the time of the draft. In the rebuild stage, we know that Essendon likes to have a list full of talls, before adding in the midfielders. Our tall stocks have a lot of unknowns about them, so having a lot of them is the right call IMO. I could see us adding another this year, although maybe not with the first pick.

 

[TheGrizz]

All were quite late picks, or rookies, so it was always unlikely they'd be a superstar.

You're likely right. And with all 4 out of contract this year, all the more reason to figure out what they have got, otherwise we may need their list spot for other needs.

 

[faible]

You're likely right. And with all 4 out of contract this year, all the more reason to figure out what they have got, otherwise we may need their list spot for other needs.

I'd like to think one of that group can be AFL standard, and that Reid and Cox end up being the elite KPP's you'd want a Top-10 selection to be.

 

[fairbump_playon]

All were quite late picks, or rookies, so it was always unlikely they'd be a superstar.

James Hird and Cale Hooker weren't exactly top ten picks... But yep.

My point was not that any of our big group of low pick talls should be stars... more that we likely still have space for an elite tall forward... traded or drafted in.

 

[Lore]

I think a major goal this year as a club is filtering through our tall stocks to see who is worth keeping and who isnt.

For example, if Cox and Reid project as key defenders, do we need both Brand AND BZT going forward as KPD depth with Stewart, Laverde and Ridley on the list?
Or, going forward, is having BZT and Stewart just going to take valuable game time at VFL and senior level away from Reid/Cox/Brand in KPD posts and so do we want to cut bait with one as holdover depth.

And up forward what the hell have we got? We have Baldwin (19), Eyre (20) and McBride (20) who we know bugger all about whether any are viable long term options.
Jones looks the part but just can't stay on the park and how long do we carry Francis forward if it isn't even his best position (which is 3rd tall defender btw)? Wright is probably the only locked in KPF we have right now.

So we have a lot of quantity, but a lot of question marks about quality. I would expect there will be a bit of a cull of our KPP stocks this year with a few OOC.

Also, if we have a top 8 pick and an Aaron Naughton/Ben King type is available (Naughton was pick 9, King pick 6 for reference), I dont think there is any KPF on our list that is talented enough to make me feel comfortable passing on him at his point

We have a lot of questions in regard stocks our KPPs going forward, and one of our major priorities for me this year is figuring out who is worth keeping and who isnt, because our list balance is out of whack as you said.

Yeah I agree. This year and possibly next year as well will be filtering the talls and then the priority will be more towards upgrading some of those role players and building depth on the wings, flanks and pockets.

I would hope with the number of talls that we currently have on our list, that all spine positions in a best 22 should be filled with depth from this list for at least the next 3-4 years until Stewart, Laverde, Wright, Francis start to need replacing.

We've gone from having literally Joe Daniher and daylight (Hooker, Ambrose, Hurley) to having Wright, Jones, Baldwin, Francis, Cox, and probably Bryan as a resting ruck lining up for KPF spots, McBride and Eyre in the wings, and with the possibility of Reid also playing forward, and it's still not enough.

 

[The Prosecutor]

This is the story of footy clubs.

Get the balance of the senior/annointed players wrong or have them play for themselves (I understand this is a criticism of the Saints of the 90s and Dogs of the 90s to 00s who had really highly regarded top 7 or so players) and you're basically screwed.

The problem is these players are never changed (i.e.traded) and are almost never asked to change. They get all of the freedom to play stat footy and rest is history.

I mentioned Blight at Adelaide in another thread on a similar issue. My understanding is that his agreement to coach was contingent on moving on the 4 of the most senior players.

Lyon brutalised Dal Santo, Ball and someone else at St Kilda. That's probably the only other example that jumps out at me.

The problem is it become ingrained as well.

BJ passes it down to Merrett etc.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I think a major goal this year as a club is filtering through our tall stocks to see who is worth keeping and who isnt.

For example, if Cox and Reid project as key defenders, do we need both Brand AND BZT going forward as KPD depth with Stewart, Laverde and Ridley on the list?
Or, going forward, is having BZT and Stewart just going to take valuable game time at VFL and senior level away from Reid/Cox/Brand in KPD posts and so do we want to cut bait with one as holdover depth.

And up forward what the hell have we got? We have Baldwin (19), Eyre (20) and McBride (20) who we know bugger all about whether any are viable long term options.
Jones looks the part but just can't stay on the park and how long do we carry Francis forward if it isn't even his best position (which is 3rd tall defender btw)? Wright is probably the only locked in KPF we have right now.

So we have a lot of quantity, but a lot of question marks about quality. I would expect there will be a bit of a cull of our KPP stocks this year with a few OOC.

Also, if we have a top 8 pick and an Aaron Naughton/Ben King type is available (Naughton was pick 9, King pick 6 for reference), I dont think there is any KPF on our list that is talented enough to make me feel comfortable passing on him at his point

We have a lot of questions in regard stocks our KPPs going forward, and one of our major priorities for me this year is figuring out who is worth keeping and who isnt, because our list balance is out of whack as you said.

Agree with this a lot.

Originally from the perspective of using the season to decide if we needed to aggressively target Ben King or if we had the talent already and could better utilise our assets. Obviously the King option is shelved, but perhaps the main priority of this season now is, as you say, nailing down roles going forward and who is up to fulfilling them.

Nik Cox should have his future role decided and the season utilised towards developing in it (CHB). Zach Reid needs to be tried forward and a decision made if we persevere with that. Do we finally establish a role with Francis or cut our losses. Is BZT worth any investment?

These are the types of questions that have to be answered before pre-season. If we are able to confidently answer them, then I can accept this season as a relative success irrespective of ladder position.

 

[Lore]

It's likely Hurley would be gone by the time of the draft. In the rebuild stage, we know that Essendon likes to have a list full of talls, before adding in the midfielders. Our tall stocks have a lot of unknowns about them, so having a lot of them is the right call IMO. I could see us adding another this year, although maybe not with the first pick.

Our midfield is fine, we've been adding to it every year for like 8 years running and will probably continue to do so, but it has reasonable depth and is of a high quality, with the oldest of them (Shiel) still looking like he has 5-7 years left of his career.

I wouldn't be adverse to bringing in a bigger type to block if Langford/Heppell/Shiel/Stringer/Voss aren't really that player, but otherwise it seems like a good mix with Parish having taken big steps last year, and with Caldwell and Hobbs coming through to add a couple more dimensions to it. It doesn't look like needing a raze to the ground rebuild for 6-7 years.

Talls wise, yes we have lots and that’s fine if we’re going to filter them down which is what I was alluding to when I wrote them all out. Trading for a seasoned KPF (to be compared with Lloyd) as a matter of priority with our 2022 first isn’t quite the same strategy, is it?

 

[Duckworth]

Our midfield is fine, we've been adding to it every year for like 8 years running and will probably continue to do so, but it has reasonable depth and is of a high quality, with the oldest of them (Shiel) still looking like he has 5-7 years left of his career.

I wouldn't be adverse to bringing in a bigger type to block if Langford/Heppell/Shiel/Stringer/Voss aren't really that player, but otherwise it seems like a good mix with Parish having taken big steps last year, and with Caldwell and Hobbs coming through to add a couple more dimensions to it. It doesn't look like needing a raze to the ground rebuild for 6-7 years.

Talls wise, yes we have lots and that’s fine if we’re going to filter them down which is what I was alluding to when I wrote them all out. Trading for a seasoned KPF (to be compared with Lloyd) as a matter of priority with our 2022 first isn’t quite the same strategy, is it?

Edit: Ohhhh I thought the posters you quoted were giving two different strategies. I wouldn’t go down the road of recruiting a seasoned KPF (seems counter-intuitive to the rebuild). I’d consider drafting one, given the right circumstances.

I agree with your midfield assessment (along with probably everything else). Sorry, my bad.

 

[BuffDog]

Hurley and Heppell are both ooc this year. They have both been fantastic servants to the club but neither should be offered a new contract if we are serious about building a list that competes for a flag.

Realistically we finish 12-14th this year and we take the best KPF available along with our F/S pick(s).

Heppell and Hurley gone should free up 1mil+ in our cap and this is our advantage over some teams around us - we have the flexibility to target needs through trade or FA.

The one thing we will need to look into is whether we trade out 2023 picks to really hit this draft (or get trade targets in) I’m confident we will have a much stronger ‘23 season so could be an option.

 

[Yoda_]

This is the story of footy clubs.

Get the balance of the senior/annointed players wrong or have them play for themselves (I understand this is a criticism of the Saints of the 90s and Dogs of the 90s to 00s who had really highly regarded top 7 or so players) and you're basically screwed.

The problem is these players are never changed (i.e.traded) and are almost never asked to change. They get all of the freedom to play stat footy and rest is history.

I mentioned Blight at Adelaide in another thread on a similar issue. My understanding is that his agreement to coach was contingent on moving on the 4 of the most senior players.

Lyon brutalised Dal Santo, Ball and someone else at St Kilda. That's probably the only other example that jumps out at me.

And because of the age demographic, they are all set to be entrenched in that midfield rotation for the next 2-4 years at least.

Shame really, not only could we change the age demographic but the shape of this midfield group by moving on one or two of those similar types.


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[Yoda_]

I’d be looking for an elite small forward, would’ve loved rachele last year if hadve finished lower. Harry sheezel one to keep on the radar.

I’m ok with this but feel the Davey twins sound almost certain to be bright to the club as small.


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[Yoda_]

Agreed. or trade for a seasoned one. We haven't had a good KPF since Lloyd.

I floated Tom Lynch (Richmond) as a stop gap for two years.


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[yodellinhank]

Our midfield is fine, we've been adding to it every year for like 8 years running and will probably continue to do so, but it has reasonable depth and is of a high quality, with the oldest of them (Shiel) still looking like he has 5-7 years left of his career.

I wouldn't be adverse to bringing in a bigger type to block if Langford/Heppell/Shiel/Stringer/Voss aren't really that player, but otherwise it seems like a good mix with Parish having taken big steps last year, and with Caldwell and Hobbs coming through to add a couple more dimensions to it. It doesn't look like needing a raze to the ground rebuild for 6-7 years.

Talls wise, yes we have lots and that’s fine if we’re going to filter them down which is what I was alluding to when I wrote them all out. Trading for a seasoned KPF (to be compared with Lloyd) as a matter of priority with our 2022 first isn’t quite the same strategy, is it?

I think we're short a Devon Smith circa 2018 type in the mids also. I haven't seen enough of Caldwell to know if he could be this type. We're very front running, when things don't go our way it gets out easy without much harrassment.

 

[Yoda_]

I really don't think we have room for any more talls on our list without cutting another tall, and since most of them are really young, you'd be cutting a guy who isn't fully developed just for the sake of hitting the reset button. We have the most players over 195cm of any team (equal most with Sydney), plus a few 193/194cm listed players who play taller (Laverde, Francis, Hurley, Baldwin, Voss?).

Forward: Michael Hurley (31)
Ruck: Andrew Phillips (30)
Defender: James Stewart (28)

Forward: Peter Wright (25)
Defender: Jayden Laverde (25)
Forward: Aaron Francis (24)
Defender: Brandon Zerk-Thatcher (23)
Defender: Jordan Ridley (23)
Ruck: Sam Draper (23)

Ruck: Cian McBride (20)
Ruck: Nick Bryan (20)
?: Nik Cox (19)
Defender: Zach Reid (19)
Defender: Cody Brand (19)
Forward: Harrison Jones (19)
Forward: Josh Eyre (19)
Forward: Kaine Baldwin (19)
?: Patrick Voss (18)

That's almost half our list, and given we also have a lot of mids now taking up another large chunk of the list, there's no wonder we have stuff all depth in small forwards and defenders.

View attachment 1358700View attachment 1358701

This highlights the lack of establishment on our list.

How many of these will settle into the position they were drafted in for?

Not only that but are they actually KPP? (See Francis, see Voss, see Ridley).


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[Vindicater]

I won’t be doing my own thread but my rankings will be up on my socials Which will likely find its way here

Who would fit our needs at the top end.

Tsatas looks promising.

 

[eDPS]

Who would fit our needs at the top end.

Tsatas looks promising.

I think go best available talent, dons are bottom 4 now but I don’t expect them to be at the end of the year I would think Tsatas would be out of reach. Elijah Hewett could be a good option from WA a powerful hard running midfielder or a classy forward like Harry Sheezel.

 

[Lore]

This highlights the lack of establishment on our list.

How many of these will settle into the position they were drafted in for?

Not only that but are they actually KPP? (See Francis, see Voss, see Ridley).


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Sure… does throwing away picks and cap space importing established players make these kids more established more quickly? Does it help them to settle into the positions they were drafted for?

There are pretty much two reasons for investing heavily in the trade period/mature draftees/DFAs —

• stop gaps so your team doesn’t completely bottom out between list builds, save the coach’s career/sell a few more memberships/plug holes in your list because someone is an LTI/suspended for a year, or
• you’re about to win a flag and that player is the last piece of the puzzle.

Pretty sure we are neither of those things.

And Tom Lynch is eye wateringly expensive - he went to Richmond on 6m over 7 years. Ain’t no way I want to take on that contract for the price they’d likely ask, especially not for a 29 year old. And I wouldn’t have wanted him last year at 28 or the year before at 27 either. Where would that have gotten us really, besides blowing a massive hole in the budget and probably missed out on Perkins and Jones?



KPP is someone who can or does play in a key position, as a focal point in the forward line or as the defender who nullifies the same. Francis and Ridley have both played those roles in the past. Voss is an unknown quantity currently described as a 194cm “utility” and is built like the proverbial, who knows what he becomes.

Having question marks on these kids is a normal part of a list build. There are no shortcuts, no bandaids. It’s not 1980-something when you can buy a premiership winning list. Just have to be patient, let them mature together and learn their craft, find their place and get it done properly.

 

[ant555]

This highlights the lack of establishment on our list.

How many of these will settle into the position they were drafted in for?

Not only that but are they actually KPP? (See Francis, see Voss, see Ridley).


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How many players across the comp end up playing different positions ?