Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

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[kelvin_sheedy]

Our priorities should be pretty simple imo. Should be best available at 4, hopefully mid and then just load up on the next best kids like Davey.

We already have a young list. We are hoping to get guys like Hobbs, Perkins, Cox, Martin, Reid, Jones, Massimo, Caldwell to come good in a year or two. We need to land a serious player in 2 years to help propel the push up the ladder and hopefully fill the list in with the right free hits.

We need a lot to go right to not turn into North Melbourne at this point in time. Trading out one of our best for unproven and setting us back again is completely irresponsible.

 

[Zach Package]

See my edit.

You can't nurture an average runner into a good runner.

You also can't nurture a build that doesn't have strength and power through the hips.

Parish was never a hard ball specialist (I use the term to differentiate from contested ball because I care not for loose ball gets and ruck sharks).

You can nurture the likes of Bont and Fyfe into dominant stoppage breaking players because they have the natural physical attributes.

Neale and Adams, 2 players Parish is usually compared with, have played the game absorbing physical heat from day 1.

I disagree on that, I reckon if you get the strength and conditioning program right the players grow an extra leg. We haven’t and performances reflect that.

Conditioning wise our players physically do not have capacity to keep up as a collective and strength wise we don’t see the ridiculous transformations we see pretty well league wide.

My position is and has been we are not arming the players we have with the tools they need to succeed and keep up so cycling through the players doesn’t do anything to advance our position unless we get that part right.

It’s also why barring select examples of us selling broken goods every player that leaves us immediately goes to another level.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Brayshaw an outside runner…

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Brayshaw an outside runner…

Well he has less contested possessions than guys like McCluggage who we consider outside, so whats his excuse then?

 

[faible]

Well he has less contested possessions than guys like McCluggage who we consider outside, so whats his excuse then?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

68th for centre clearances but hey, he's the perfect midfielder to come in for us and change our whole setup and culture without being able to win as much clearances and contested possessions as Parish.

 

[doug85]

 

[BuffDog]

I'm certainly not opposed to Parish being traded and tbh I wouldn't even being opposed to bringing Mitchell in - but not as part of the same deal or at the expense of draft picks.

Parish is our only mid with decent currency beside Merrett and while he is certainly a good player, I don't think he is irreplaceable and we could cash in.

We could end up with picks 4 and 6 + a future second from the Hawks.

Which could net us:

Dunkley
Mitchell
Tsatsas/Cadman/Wardlaw/Sheezel
A Davey
J Davey
Munkara(?)

+ one 1st round and two 2nd round 2023 picks.

A midfield of Merrett, Shiel, Mitchell, Dunkley, Stringer would teach Hobbs, Perkins, Caldwell etc a lot and would be decently competitive as a group.

Probably won't happen but its a thought.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Well he has less contested possessions than guys like McCluggage who we consider outside, so whats his excuse then?

McCluggage has been a centre square player all year, he’s a balanced mid. Brayshaw is a balanced midfielder but he is the defensive lynch pin of a much harder group than we are. He may average 2.5 less clearances than Parish but lays twice many tackles, runs hard both ways. Parish is a defensive liability at both the stoppage and the transition whereas Brayshaw is the best in the comp at both.

 

[BrunoV]

Brayshaw an outside runner…

Well, he kind of is, at the same time as he is a gun inside and 2-way.

 

[bombreys]

The reality when you are dumpster diving is that you are looking at players with flaws. It’s all about identifying a strength or a skill and working with that and not really worrying about the rest.

Cunningham for example is an absolutely elite, disciplined two way runner, but only average by foot and not overly physical. That might do us for now to set a bit of a standard.

Stocker is again probably only average by foot but a pretty burly, physical kid who likes the hard stuff and does all the nice defensive actions you look for.

I’d like to see what else falls out the bottom of the remaining sides but at this stage I’d have no issue offering Stocker a 2 year deal and I’d be monitoring Jed Anderson very closely as well, they may be limited footballers but there’s some immediate defensive steel and fight right there.

Agreed - as I said, I'd understand why/if we looked at him. But his disposal by foot isn't anywhere near average - it's very poor.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

McCluggage has been a centre square player all year, he’s a balanced mid. Brayshaw is a balanced midfielder but he is the defensive lynch pin of a much harder group than we are. He may average 2.5 less clearances than Parish but lays twice many tackles, runs hard both ways. Parish is a defensive liability at both the stoppage and the transition whereas Brayshaw is the best in the comp at both.

Parish is in the top 10 for clearances and contested possessions. Brayshaw is not. He's 72nd and 64th. Those are the stats and they don't lie. I'm just presenting facts.

Granted he tackles more than Parish but less than Merrett and Caldwell which is another fact. But if you compare Freos best clearance player in Serong, he tackles less than Parish. What a strange world.

I have two types of mids - inside and outside. I consider those guys to be outside. Parish inside.

 

[faible]

Parish is in the top 10 for clearances and contested possessions. Brayshaw is not. He's 72nd and 64th. Those are the stats and they don't lie. I'm just presenting facts.

Granted he tackles more than Parish but less than Merrett and Caldwell which is another fact. But if you compare Freos best clearance player in Serong, he tackles less than Parish. What a strange world.

I have two types of mids - inside and outside. I consider those guys to be outside. Parish inside.

You need to update your football knowledge and stop relying on footywire stats for the entirety of your player analysis.

Brayshaw is a jet, and better than Parish. You're wrong. Posting another hundred stupid posts on the topic won't change you being wrong.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

You need to update your football knowledge and stop relying on footywire stats for the entirety of your player analysis.

Brayshaw is a jet, and better than Parish. You're wrong. Posting another hundred stupid posts on the topic won't change you being wrong.

Not at clearances or contested possessions... not yet anyway and maybe never. ; )

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Parish is in the top 10 for clearances and contested possessions. Brayshaw is not. He's 72nd and 64th. Those are the stats and they don't lie. I'm just presenting facts.

Granted he tackles more than Parish but less than Merrett and Caldwell which is another fact. But if you compare Freos best clearance player in Serong, he tackles less than Parish. What a strange world.

Brayshaw is 9th in the comp for average tackles. Serong is 52nd, Merrett and Caldwell are 55th Parish is 114th. You must be looking at Angus… that and Brodie is their best clearance player.

 

[faible]

Not at clearances or contested possessions... not yet anyway and maybe never. ; )

As I said;

stop relying on footywire stats for the entirety of your player analysis.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Hawthorn - Parish
Dogs - Pick 6
Essendon - Dunkley

Honestly believe that’s a win all around.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The whole argument shows a flawed understanding of what an effective stoppage player is.

Clearances or contested possessions won is half or less of the equation. It's clearances won + opposition clearances prevented. You can contribute to clearances won by blocking for team mates to create space, or prevent opposition clearances through body contact, supporting in the tackle etc.

Parish has a very singular way of contributing at the stoppage. He barely contributes at all in a direct defensive or supporting in a secondary offensive/defensive manner. He might end up with 6.5 clearances a game but have prevented only 1-2 others the other way. Where as Brayshaw will generate 4 clearances offensively and block for another 5, plus prevent another 6-7 directly and limit the effectiveness of another 6-7, leading to a far greater impact on total number of clearances a game.

 

[faible]

The whole argument shows a flawed understanding of what an effective stoppage player is.

Clearances or contested possessions won is half or less of the equation. It's clearances won + opposition clearances prevented. You can contribute to clearances won by blocking for team mates to create space, or prevent opposition clearances through body contact, supporting in the tackle etc.

Parish has a very singular way of contributing at the stoppage. He barely contributes at all in a direct defensive or supporting in a secondary offensive/defensive manner.

Someone mentioned this a while back, but the AFL defines a contested possession as including a number of things. Parish would be excellent at looseball-gets and gathers from a hit-out, less so at hardball-gets. None of our current mature midfield group would excel at hardball-gets to the extent a player like Josh Kennedy or Liberatore (among others) do.

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A possession which has been won when the ball is in dispute. Includes looseball-gets, hardball-gets, contested marks, gathers from a hit-out and frees for.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Someone mentioned this a while back, but the AFL defines a contested possession as including a number of things. Parish would be excellent at looseball-gets and gathers from a hit-out, less so at hardball-gets. None of our current mature midfield group would excel at hardball-gets to the extent a player like Josh Kennedy or Liberatore (among others) do.

Stats glossary: Every stat explained

Brush up on your statistical knowledge with our glossary

www.afl.com.au

Yep. 10+ years ago they used to reference contested possessions and hard ball gets separately but for some reason they began conflating the two until hardball gets disappeared. I think we'd really get exposed in that stat line.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Brayshaw is 9th in the comp for average tackles. Serong is 52nd, Merrett and Caldwell are 55th Parish is 114th. You must be looking at Angus… that and Brodie is their best clearance player.

Yep, I used the wrong year for tackles but I do acknowledge he tackles more.

Parish getting 39 disposals and 3 Brownlow votes against the Dockers last year must have been a fluke then.

 

[faible]

Parish getting 39 disposals and 3 Brownlow votes against the Dockers last year must have been a fluke then.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Yep, I used the wrong year for tackles but I do acknowledge he tackles more.

Parish getting 39 disposals and 3 Brownlow votes against the Dockers last year must have been a fluke then.

Just entertain me: Do you think Trent Cotchin was a better player before or after 2017?

 

[doug85]

 

[BrunoV]

Oh baby.