Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

[Lore]

Quick links: Player Contract Status | Draft Watch 2022 | JHA Father/Son and NGA | Adrian Dodoro

Spoiler: LIVE DRAFT ORDER (2022 Draft Order)

Spoiler: FUTURE PICK TRACKER (2023 Draft Order)

 

[fairbump_playon]

Neither has any other footballer who has stepped foot on the hallow turf of the The Hangar.

Ha ha but what about all those finals we've won ha ha.

On the current list I can see Parish, Stringer, Caldwell, Redman, Kelly, Perkins, Draper & Durham as types who wouldn't go missing. Would say Merrett but he's already participated in a few disasters.

 

[Lore]

Ha ha

When people put spaces between the "ha", in my head it's like The Count on Sesame Street "ha ha ha ha ha"

 

[fairbump_playon]

When people put spaces between the "ha", in my head it's like The Count on Sesame Street "ha ha ha ha ha"

That’s exactly how I do it Lore ha ha ha

 

[blitzer]

Ha ha but what about all those finals we've won ha ha.

On the current list I can see Parish, Stringer, Caldwell, Redman, Kelly, Perkins, Draper & Durham as types who wouldn't go missing. Would say Merrett but he's already participated in a few disasters.

Redman was horrendous in last years final. He literally played his worst game of the entire year that game. It was a shame because his 2021 was a great improving year for him but he put in an absolute stinker.

Harsh on Merrett too. Whilst I dunno if he's the kind of player to rise to the occasion he'd still be better than most of those other players even playing at 80% of his normal level.

 

[Snake Charmer]

it's a no from me.

brilliant player, constantly injured, burned us once with unreliable commitment.

not sure that he thrives in highly contested, finals style footy either

Ha ha but what about all those finals we've won ha ha.

On the current list I can see Parish, Stringer, Caldwell, Redman, Kelly, Perkins, Draper & Durham as types who wouldn't go missing. Would say Merrett but he's already participated in a few disasters.

Redman goes missing every second week.. wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, in a final. Last years final is proof too

 

[fairbump_playon]

Redman goes missing every second week.. wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, in a final. Last years final is proof too

I get it.. he’s definitely been very inconsistent but I see greatness in him. Personal take.

 

[Albertross]

Redman goes missing every second week.. wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, in a final. Last years final is proof too

Why single out Redman? How many of those players stood up during the final, or consistently throughout the year? Forget the ones who didn't play last year for us.

Stringer was not great by memory. Durham couldn't stick a tackle. Draper??? Caldwell should not have played in retrospect. Parish...Perkins, would need to watch replay, which I cbf. Essentially, we sucked across the ground!

 

[bomberlegend2007]

No one wants Shiel, we would get pick 49 and a bag of peanuts

Shiel is 100% worth a late first round/early second round pick. While he hasn’t been the superstar we have hoped for, he could be a final piece of the puzzle for a team close to a flag.

 

[andleanback]

Shiel is 100% worth a late first round/early second round pick. While he hasn’t been the superstar we have hoped for, he could be a final piece of the puzzle for a team close to a flag.

Not a chance. Only if we paid significant money off his contract

 

[Yoda_]

Not a chance. Only if we paid significant money off his contract

With the rumoured chunk of our salary intact, paying a large chunk of salary for player x to go elsewhere ain’t a bad idea


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[Nifft]

With the rumoured chunk of our salary intact, paying a large chunk of salary for player x to go elsewhere ain’t a bad idea


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I agree that list spots are more important than salary, especially as we're rebuilding.

 

[andleanback]

With the rumoured chunk of our salary intact, paying a large chunk of salary for player x to go elsewhere ain’t a bad idea


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I just don’t see many Victorian club fits for him if they decided to part ways.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Not a chance. Only if we paid significant money off his contract

Which we would with our cap space.

 

[BrunoV]

Not a chance. Only if we paid significant money off his contract

This is a carrot you'd dangle.

 

[TheGrizz]

I think he has 2 more years of at least 650+ a year doesn't he?

Wpuld be getting very little in return in terms of draft capital. Worse than Treloar like returns because Treloar was in decent touch when Collingwood forced him out.

 

[BrunoV]

I think he has 2 more years of at least 650+ a year doesn't he?

Wpuld be getting very little in return in terms of draft capital. Worse than Treloar like returns because Treloar was in decent touch when Collingwood forced him out.

Assuming his form doesn't improve I don't think you worry about return. That ship sailed with the heammoraging of guns at the end of 2020. Not his fault but the deal blew up.

Pick around 30 based on similar form to now. Who knows, maybe St Kilda thinks it can capitalise on his run. It probably can. Melbourne doesn't have a very dynamic midfield, at least not in terms of pure break away speed (if we take cap concerns out of the picture). I wouldn't rule out being able to get something of real value.

If you want experience there will be someone we can get a year or 2 out of who can show the way. Maybe we take Yeo of West Coast's hands to help them with their salary issues. Cal Ward would be my preference.

Cut the dead wood out.

 

[Yoda_]

I think he has 2 more years of at least 650+ a year doesn't he?

Wpuld be getting very little in return in terms of draft capital. Worse than Treloar like returns because Treloar was in decent touch when Collingwood forced him out.

I look at clubs like Hawthorn (tough TOUGH calls on veterans) and now Collingwood (Treloar was a bit of a shemozzle but a decision was still made) and those clubs made hard calls and acted quickly.

Reaping those longer term decisions quicker whilst we sit on our hands in hope of a one time AA umpteen years ago, potentially getting to a rung below that level again at 30.


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[TheGrizz]

I look at clubs like Hawthorn (tough TOUGH calls on veterans) and now Collingwood (Treloar was a bit of a shemozzle but a decision was still made) and those clubs made hard calls and acted quickly.

Reaping those longer term decisions quicker whilst we sit on our hands in hope of a one time AA umpteen years ago, potentially getting to a rung below that level again at 30.


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Ok, but if :
1. we are already short on midfield depth,
2. dont need the cap space cause we are loaded with it already; and
3. arent going to get a good pick out of it
Then what's the point?

Reportedly he is as professional on the track as it comes. He isnt the first good midfielder to be out of form (which he absolutely is) and maybe he is an asset in the standard sense off the field (conditioning and training ethic) which would be helpful for a younger list anyway.

And if others like Hobbs and Perkins go past him on the field, then so be it (see; Bryce Gibbs at Adelaide). Might as well keep him on if we get no tangible benefit for him leaving other than 'just cause'.

At least Collingwood needed the cap space and Hawthorn wanted space to go after guys like Mitchell and O'Meara and Wingard whilst resetting for another (failed) finals tilt. None of that is relevant to our situation.

 

[Yoda_]

Ok, but if :
1. we are already short on midfield depth,
2. dont need the cap space cause we are loaded with it already; and
3. arent going to get a good pick out of it
Then what's the point?

Reportedly he is as professional on the track as it comes. He isnt the first good midfielder to be out of form (which he absolutely is) and maybe he is an asset in the standard sense off the field (conditioning and training ethic) which would be helpful for a younger list anyway.

And if others like Hobbs and Perkins go past him on the field, then so be it (see; Bryce Gibbs at Adelaide). Might as well keep him on if we get no tangible benefit for him leaving other than 'just cause'.

At least Collingwood needed the cap space and Hawthorn wanted space to go after guys like Mitchell and O'Meara and Wingard whilst resetting for another (failed) finals tilt. None of that is relevant to our situation.

Being professional and performing seem like worlds apart because right now he is not performing on field. To be frank, he has coasted for the best part of 2 years. Watching last week live and it was alarming how little effort defensively he put in. I think it was Durham kicked a goal in the pocket and Shiel couldn't be bothered running 15 metres out of his line (back to the centre) to congratulate his team mate. Not a great look.

As mentioned, if we can turn this situation into a positive I would be absolutely all about it. A Shiel + 2023 first could turn into a 2022 first. Even a straight up second with someone should give us ammunition to fill the midfielders list.

The "we don't have enough midfielders" argument wears thin for mine. As has been discussed at length on this board, we could have added 4 very different inside mids in the off season (Dunstan, Brodie, Hewitt, Greenwood) [money talks before you say "oh we tried"]. We obviously rate what we have and now one key piece isn't up to it (Shiel dropped) suggests he is firmly on the outer.

Not only through trade but inside midfield is possibly the easiest role to fill in the draft. Just need to have a go at identifying one (A MIDFIELDER!!!! )

 

[Yoda_]

Assuming his form doesn't improve I don't think you worry about return. That ship sailed with the heammoraging of guns at the end of 2020. Not his fault but the deal blew up.

Pick around 30 based on similar form to now. Who knows, maybe St Kilda thinks it can capitalise on his run. It probably can. Melbourne doesn't have a very dynamic midfield, at least not in terms of pure break away speed (if we take cap concerns out of the picture). I wouldn't rule out being able to get something of real value.

If you want experience there will be someone we can get a year or 2 out of who can show the way. Maybe we take Yeo of West Coast's hands to help them with their salary issues. Cal Ward would be my preference.

Cut the dead wood out.

I couldn't give a shit what he is on to be honest, it is the example the club is setting. The same boring monotonous bullshit has served us well for the last 20 years. why not keep doing the same.?! No. Make a stand. And right now, as high profile as Dylan Shiel is, he makes the most sense to move on. And we have so many avenues to make it a reality.

Getting a return on investment (ala Adam Treloar) would be nice but it's not about that for me anymore.

 

[TheGrizz]

Being professional and performing seem like worlds apart because right now he is not performing on field. To be frank, he has coasted for the best part of 2 years. Watching last week live and it was alarming how little effort defensively he put in. I think it was Durham kicked a goal in the pocket and Shiel couldn't be bothered running 15 metres out of his line (back to the centre) to congratulate his team mate. Not a great look.

As mentioned, if we can turn this situation into a positive I would be absolutely all about it. A Shiel + 2023 first could turn into a 2022 first. Even a straight up second with someone should give us ammunition to fill the midfielders list.

The "we don't have enough midfielders" argument wears thin for mine. As has been discussed at length on this board, we could have added 4 very different inside mids in the off season (Dunstan, Brodie, Hewitt, Greenwood) [money talks before you say "oh we tried"]. We obviously rate what we have and now one key piece isn't up to it (Shiel dropped) suggests he is firmly on the outer.

Not only through trade but inside midfield is possibly the easiest role to fill in the draft. Just need to have a go at identifying one (A MIDFIELDER!!!! )

Other than you're flagrant use of hyperbole, a couple of notes:

1. That he has 'coasted' for two years is rubbish. He missed 17 straight games last year due to a knee surgery. Prior to that he had 2 straight top 10 finishes in the BnF (2nd in 2019). If that is 'coasting' you need to adjust your standards.

2. Being dropped doesn't mean he is on the outer forever. It means he is out of form, and players have been dropped before and come back. Ben Brown and Michael Hibberd were both dropped last year and played in a premiership. Only those with an axe to grind would suggest that being dropped in round 7 equates to his career at the club being over.

3. If Shiel is as cooked as an asset as you suggest, you arent getting anything for him. You aren't getting a reasonable pick, and no one is going to pay a 2022 first to take him on, even for a 2023 pick as teams can do that deal with someone else without having to take on Shiel from us. Not to mention we would have to pay a significant portion of his salary.

4. So - for the sake of the discussion - say you do get rid of him, for a nominal pick, and have to pay 200k of his salary, and replace him with a Dunstan/Greenwood type.
So you are paying 200k + the salary for another guy just for a mid-level pick (that you would probably have to use as trade bait to get a guy to replace Shiel anyway) and the privilege to get another midfielder who is unlikely to perform at a higher level than Shiel anyway. Again, not a great list strategy when you can just keep Shiel

Getting dropped isn't a referendum on his career, but it is something he can learn from. The fact he is a strong trainer indicates to me it is something he can overcome with professionalism. And if he does come back, and perform well, then hopefully it serves as a template to do the same with other players that may be underperformed.

 

[Yoda_]

Other than you're flagrant use of hyperbole, a couple of notes:

1. That he has 'coasted' for two years is rubbish. He missed 17 straight games last year due to a knee surgery. Prior to that he had 2 straight top 10 finishes in the BnF (2nd in 2019). If that is 'coasting' you need to adjust your standards.

2. Being dropped doesn't mean he is on the outer forever. It means he is out of form, and players have been dropped before and come back. Ben Brown and Michael Hibberd were both dropped last year and played in a premiership. Only those with an axe to grind would suggest that being dropped in round 7 equates to his career at the club being over.

3. If Shiel is as cooked as an asset as you suggest, you arent getting anything for him. You aren't getting a reasonable pick, and no one is going to pay a 2022 first to take him on, even for a 2023 pick as teams can do that deal with someone else without having to take on Shiel from us. Not to mention we would have to pay a significant portion of his salary.

4. So - for the sake of the discussion - say you do get rid of him, for a nominal pick, and have to pay 200k of his salary, and replace him with a Dunstan/Greenwood type.
So you are paying 200k + the salary for another guy just for a mid-level pick (that you would probably have to use as trade bait to get a guy to replace Shiel anyway) and the privilege to get another midfielder who is unlikely to perform at a higher level than Shiel anyway. Again, not a great list strategy when you can just keep Shiel

Getting dropped isn't a referendum on his career, but it is something he can learn from. The fact he is a strong trainer indicates to me it is something he can overcome with professionalism. And if he does come back, and perform well, then hopefully it serves as a template to do the same with other players that may be underperformed.

My point was setting the standards and from what it sounds like has been completely missed.

The defence sounds like it is only because it is a high profile player. If it were Joe Blow people would be calling for him to be delisted.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Karl Amon

10

Karl Amon

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

294.5

4star

D

21.0

5star

K

15.0

5star

HB

6.0

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

146.8

3star

wouldn't be a bad get, even though he sounds St Kilda bound. Seriously a fantastic leg on him.

 

[Yoda_]

Redman goes missing every second week.. wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him, in a final. Last years final is proof too

I was thinking about this the other day actually. We seem really content with our back 6, almost like it is set in stone but then make you think, what do each player bring? Redman on his day is a runner who can deliver decently forward of centre but we don't see it nearly as much as we deserve.

A fan favourite so feels ike he escapes criticism

 

[boncer34]

My point was setting the standards and from what it sounds like has been completely missed.

The defence sounds like it is only because it is a high profile player. If it were Joe Blow people would be calling for him to be delisted.

Grizz addressed and debunked that point.