AFLW AFLW/VFLW 2024 - General Discussion

[Oliver G]

So didn’t we lose Kearney for nothing, than lost Conti to Richmond on top of losing our captain, than the compensation pick we got for Conti is now at GWS, now this last one is at Freo.

We've had two number-one picks, three if you count this year.

2017: Huntington (received from a trade with Collingwood for Lambert)
2019: Newton (compensation for Conti)

As for why we lost them, Huntington got a job in NSW but left the club completely amicably and didn't rule out returning later. Newton well who knows perhaps issues with the football department or unhappy with being played in every position under the sun but surely we could've gone harder to keep her. As I mentioned above I firmly believe we need a clear out of the department or at the very least someone to come in and go through it with a fine toothcomb. Carlton and St. Kilda have done the same in the last year or so and it seems they are now on the right track.

Looking towards the draft here are some highlights of Weston-Turner, I really do hope we manage to pick her up as she really does look like a generational talent and would fill key gaps...

Future star showreel: Kristie-Lee Weston-Turner

Back from a broken wrist, Kristie-Lee Weston-Turner is tearing it up in the Coates Talent League

www.afl.com.au

 

[Libbaaaa]

Is the umpiring always a disgrace, that prelim was a shocker. Cats got hosed.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Is the umpiring always a disgrace

Yes. AFLW umpiring is the worst of any comp I watch live - AFL, local senior footy - men and women, local junior footy - boys and girls.

Auskick parents have better umpiring skills.

 

[SPower]

Gobsmacked.
Geelong could not get a free in the final qtr.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Is the umpiring always a disgrace, that prelim was a shocker. Cats got hosed.

The thing for me was it wasn’t just 50-50 or even 60-40 frees that were missed. Some were 100% blatant and still weren’t paid. I have no doubt the umpires did their honest best so I can’t see how the performance can be explained. Just mind-bogglingly bad.

 

[X_box_X]

The ironic thing here is Geelong legend Sam Newman has regularly provided commentary in the past, suggesting "It's not about the free kicks you don't pay, it's about the free kicks you do pay," when criticising umpires.

Geelong couldn't buy a free kick in the final qtr so Sammy I'm guessing won't be bothered by that.

 

[Hobdog]

AFLW foundation club and driving force to wooden spoon basket case. It’s pretty sad.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Libbaaaa]

The thing for me was it wasn’t just 50-50 or even 60-40 frees that were missed. Some were 100% blatant and still weren’t paid. I have no doubt the umpires did their honest best so I can’t see how the performance can be explained. Just mind-bogglingly bad.

The ones that were missed is the type of stuff that could warrant a match fixing investigation, absolutely deplorable. The commentators were just as shocked.

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[_Cerberus_]

Livingstone stepping down after the Grand Final.

I get she will have many fans, overseeing a new competition and the expansion. But I personally never rated her, and happy to see a fresh face. The game was always going to grow no matter who was in charge.

The debacle over the divisions, which saw 4 of the best 5 teams from 10 in the league, stuck sharing one division, and her stubbornness in defending it just "to be different".

Us being one of the two leading pioneer clubs for womens professional football, getting absolutely reamed by expansion. Though some of it is our own doing. Does not feel like any respect has been shown towards us. But Melbourne on the other hand get it all.

The same teams being up top still after many years shows there is no equalization. Crows and Lions get it good, as the lack of salary means players can choose to be drafted exclusively to their own state. Hopefully the increase in salary allows for greater movement. And the Crows and Lions won't have a whole state nearly to themselves. North and Demons somehow keeping strong teams despite there being a cap. Why have they not been plundered like other clubs have? How are they able to hoard?

Clubs losing star players for mostly average compensation to the new teams, after the developmental work they put into them. Sorry, but those clubs who came to the party late had zero interest in womens football originally. They only decided to jump in for the cash grab late, so f**k them. Let them build their own way up, instead of getting handouts.

I personally feel the league expanded to fast. There is way less players developing in female under 18s, per AFL club. Compared to way more male participants, per AFL mens team. Point being, each mens club has a way larger talent pool to dip into, compared to womens football. Which is rapidly growing. Growth should have been more gradual to allow a deeper talent pool to catch up. Clubs were topping up their list with cross code players, or players who have only played for a couple of seasons.

Hopefully the new boss has much more parity, and works towards balancing the league out. The gap between the good teams and bottom teams is massive.

 

[TBOW]

Once Peter Jackson completes his review of our men's department, he should start again with our women's one. Disappointing that it seems now both Lynch and Newton are going, I thought we might lose one but to lose two is very disappointing. Still a trade needs to actually happen as they just can't sign with a club, if we're smart we might be able to turn Lynch and Newton into at least pick 2 which will then allow us to either draft both Weston-Turner and Pisano or one of them and use the other the to try and land a "big fish".

Reading the article on Morphett I'm amazed that we'd even go after her, I'd assumed that she actually wanted out of Sydney which in that case you don't look gift horse in the mouth, but she's from NSW and is a lifelong Swans supporter, why would she leave and more importantly is that really the "big fish" we need? I assume we have Edmonds and Moody next year which when they both were fit in the 2022B season were excellent with Moody going forward and Edmonds taking the main ruck. If we want to spend big and it seems we do why don't we actually go for someone who actually fills a gap like a key forward or midfield depth and maybe someone from Victoria as well? Are we even asking around? Other clubs are doing that to our players.

This is a very good draft and we hold pick 1, we should be the ones on the front foot, it's going to be a very interesting month ahead.

Who is actually running our women's football department and making these decisions, Blackburn was on Fox Footy last weekend and was asked about Burke getting sacked and it sounded like the playing group including her was not consulted, she also mentioned that she'd prefer an experienced coach over a rookie. I hope whoever is in charge is actually listening to what the players have to say.

On top of the above it's just bizarre that we'd delist our vice-captain in Hunt she's one of our most experienced players who as some mentioned above is still only 27. Yes list sizes are capped to 30 but if Lynch and Newton go we have at least 4 spaces to fill with Cranston and Hunt delisted and likely a couple more to come.

During expansion I defended the club for the most part as it was out of their hands with the AFL just allowing players to leave whenever they want, I was critical that we didn't go hard enough to retain certain players but overall I thought the club handled reasonably well given the circumstances.

It's fair game now though and we can't just blame expansion, if we do end up seeing a mass exodus this is firmly on the club and if you ask me it's the people running the department that are the problem because on the face of it we should able to retain players and be able to attract players from other clubs. Whitten Oval is about to become a state-of-the-art women's football facility with only Princes Park rivalling it in the state in terms of home-ground facilities and for the most part we have an exciting young list. We should be doing everythign we can to retain our top and mid-tier talent, especially those under 21.

Sacking Burke doesn't magically solve all our problems and honestly our list management overall has been poor for some time. I hope the club proves me wrong over the coming weeks but it certainly hasn't been a great start to the off-season.

Finally I've been crunching the numbers on our ex-players at other clubs and currently there are 21 listed players (not including Newton or Lynch) at other clubs that have played for us in the AFLW…

Bannister, Daria
Bartlett, Kate
Birch, Libby
Brennan, Katie
Bruton, Jenna
Conti, Monique
Gamble, Ellyse
Huntington, Isabel
Karlson, Selena
Kearney, Emma
Lambert, Jaimee
Lochland, Brooke
Marshall, Danielle
McCarthy, Aisling
McDonald, Meg
Morris-Dalton, Nell
Munyard, Hannah
Rennie, Kim
Smith, Belinda
Toogood, Bonnie
Woods, Jemima

Here is how they left the club…

Delisted
McDonald, Meg
Marshall, Danielle
Woods, Jemima

Lost To Expansion Clubs
Bannister, Daria
Brennan, Katie
Bruton, Jenna
Conti, Monique
Gamble, Ellyse
Karlson, Selena
Kearney, Emma
Lochland, Brooke
Smith, Belinda
Toogood, Bonnie

Traded Out
Bartlett, Kate (wanted to go back to WA)
Lambert, Jaimee
McCarthy, Aisling (requested a trade to West Coast)
Morris-Dalton, Nell
Munyard, Hannah (wanted to go back to SA)

Other Reasons
Birch, Libby (rumoured to have issues with staff and playing group, traded to Melbourne)
Huntington, Isabel (went to NSW for work related reasons, left the club amicably, traded to GWS)
Rennie, Kim (requested a trade to NM but no trade was done, went into the draft)

And here is how that compares to the other 17 clubs...

View attachment 1859555

As you can see we are ranked 3rd for percentage of total players who are currently at other clubs but if you look at players currently in the top 100 as per ranking points we are top by a large margin, 8 of our 21 ex-players are currently ranked in the top 100 in the competition, the next highest is Carlton and Collingwood with 4.

I did this a couple of years back and it is even more dire now.
The team of former players would pants our current team.

TEAM OF FORMER BULLDOG PLAYERS (new club and most recent AFLW fantasy average in brackets)
INCLUDING LIKELY DEPARTURES NEWTON AND LYNCH.

B: Meg McDonald (GEE 47.5), Libby Birch (MEL 37.3)

HB: Emma Kearney (NM 71.9), Katie Lynch (GC 54.2), Belinda Smith (WC 62.8)

C: Gab Newton (FRE 64.4), Mon Conti (RIC 104.3), Jaimee Lambert (STK 80.4),

HF: Katie Brennan (RIC 67.9), Bonnie Toogood (ESS 101.6), Brooke Lochland (SYD 38.2)

F: Daria Bannister (ESS 51.5), Nell Morris-Dalton (COL 36.5)

R: Kim Rennie (NM 61.1), Jenna Bruton (NM 94.2), Aisling McCarthy (WC 70.5)

Izzy Huntington (GWS 27.7) Elise Gamble (ESS 30.0), Jemima Woods (RIC 32.0), Selena Karlson (COL 28.7) Hannah Munyard (ADE 39.0) EMG: Kate Bartlett (WC 21.8), Danielle Marshall (ESS 19)


CURRENT BULLDOG TEAM (most recent AFLW fantasy average in brackets)

B: Brown (43.8), Ferres (50.0)

HB: Gorham (43.0) Grant (47), Smith (55.7)

C: Pritchard (81.3), Fitzgerald (61.1), Georgostathis (65.3),

HF: Wilcox (56.4), Moody (36.5) Berry (64.2)

F: Hartwig (44.6), Bateman (39.3)

R: Edmonds (77.6), Blackburn (97.0), Lamb (79.3)

Coyne (45.3), Gutknecht (38.5), McFarlane (36.0), Lagoia (35.4), Carruthers (32.7)

 

[TBOW]

IF it's true we had a significant long-term offer with Morphett - and it now appears she's stating - then surely there are other (better?!) targets?

As OG said, strange player to target (maybe like Newton she was open to an interstate move) but ruck is one of our (few) areas that don't really need addressing.

We definitely need some ready to go tall players but rucks we have and KPP's we do not - particularly with Lynch going.

Something is clearly wrong with our AFLW team at the moment and at the risk of becoming a feeder club like GC in the mens comp I really hope we use this draft as an opportunity to rejuvenate with some genuine young talent.

We are likely to end up with picks 1, 3 and probably 9 in the VIC pool so I hope we draft 2 gun kids with at least 1 and 3 and if we are going to trade for a high calibre player, offer the pick we get from GC for Lynch only.

 

[weltschmerz]

Mon Con won the league B&F in a canter. Toogood was in 6th. Jeez we miss them.

 

[dogwatch]

You wonder whether any young women would even want to come to a club that's already the 2023 wooden spooner and likely to get worse in 2024 before it gets better. You wouldn't blame them for wanting anywhere else. The club could easily get stuck in a poverty trap.

All the more amazing is the commitment of players like Blackburn and Lamb to stick with the club through thick and (mostly) thin.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Mon Con won the league B&F in a canter. Toogood was in 6th. Jeez we miss them.

Yeah, but neither had any interest in staying. Toogood couldn't resist the lure of a team she once barracked for, and more $$$, and Conti is just a mercenary with no loyalty.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Good riddance, hopefully the next GM has some idea how to run a professional league. Decent umpiring, commensurate with the improving playing skills, might be a good start.

AFLW boss Nicole Livingstone to step down after grand final

AFLW boss Nicole Livingstone makes the surprise decision to stand aside after this week's grand final, saying the time felt right to leave the role.

www.abc.net.au

 

[dogwatch]

Good riddance, hopefully the next GM has some idea how to run a professional league. Decent umpiring, commensurate with the improving playing skills, might be a good start.

AFLW boss Nicole Livingstone to step down after grand final

AFLW boss Nicole Livingstone makes the surprise decision to stand aside after this week's grand final, saying the time felt right to leave the role.

www.abc.net.au

Jumping? Or pushed?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Jumping? Or pushed?

She's certainly seemed to be considered an insider as time went on. Maybe the new regime just considered her expendable? Hopefully they don't replace her with anyone from Netball Australia - although as the current wooden spooner, a dysfunctional comp would probably benefit us the most!

Surely there's an experienced female CEO/GM out there who can actually capably manage a growing section of a major sporting code?

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I was pleased that Mon Conti was reminded by Geyer that she started at the Bulldogs and was a premiership player before she took off after only two years. She didn’t even have the grace to acknowledge the Bulldogs for drafting her and developing her in her acceptance speech for the League B&F.

I stupidly dropped in to the AFLW draft thread to hear Norf talking shit about us and Freo thinking a second round pick would get Newton. I really, really hate the way we have been screwed over, I get no enjoyment at all from AFLW, no point getting attached as the new players will only get poached.

 

[Pugz89]

I was pleased that Mon Conti was reminded by Geyer that she started at the Bulldogs and was a premiership player before she took off after only two years. She didn’t even have the grace to acknowledge the Bulldogs for drafting her and developing her in her acceptance speech for the League B&F.

I stupidly dropped in to the AFLW draft thread to hear Norf talking s**t about us and Freo thinking a second round pick would get Newton. I really, really hate the way we have been screwed over, I get no enjoyment at all from AFLW, no point getting attached as the new players will only get poached.

We're as much to blame imo. Clubs with good cultures don't lose as many good players as we have. Sure, other clubs have offered more money, but a good environment and good group would perhaps allow for players to accept slight unders. We have to turn it around soon, surely. We're in no man's land as an organisation and the fact we delisted our VC without a coach locked away is idiotic. Gonna be a long time til we're competitive again I suspect.

 

[dogwatch]

I was pleased that Mon Conti was reminded by Geyer that she started at the Bulldogs and was a premiership player before she took off after only two years. She didn’t even have the grace to acknowledge the Bulldogs for drafting her and developing her in her acceptance speech for the League B&F.

I stupidly dropped in to the AFLW draft thread to hear Norf talking s**t about us and Freo thinking a second round pick would get Newton. I really, really hate the way we have been screwed over, I get no enjoyment at all from AFLW, no point getting attached as the new players will only get poached.

I understand why everybody is disengaged from AFLW right now. I feel the same.

However (not picking on you Drb, just using your post as a trigger) we need to look at it from two other perspectives:

1. The players. How will they feel when they read/hear of so many members losing interest, no longer wanting to support or follow the WB AFLW side? How much more likely will they be to leave themselves if they feel the club is a fan-free zone when it comes to women's footy? Especially when they look over at the support other clubs are getting. Remember many of these kids are barely out of their teens and have limited life experience to deal with these hard times. You wouldn't blame them for having their heads turned toward greener pastures.

2. The equivalent malaise in men's footy. At the end of season '23 a lot of us were very pissed off. Rightly so. In their impotent rage many members here were saying they are going to punish the club by not joining, downgrading, etc. An understandable reaction because how else - apart from an angry letter to Ameet - can the anonymous member express their disappointment and displeasure? In response, some here argued that penalising the club in this way is only going to make things worse. There were other ways that might make an impact. In a response from the club we have already seen a coaching cleanout, a footy dept review with a respected external consultant engaged to assist, open letter to members, a largely positive draft/trade period, important players re-signed or committing to the club, etc. Already there's a sense that we have turned the corner ... or at least we're arriving at the corner and we look like turning it! Of course 2024 still needs to be the proof of that.

So my advice would be to stay the course with the AFLW side. It's not an awful lot to ask. It doesn't mean that we all have to be rabid AFLW fans. Just maintain at least the level of following that we've done in the past. For me that's pretty minimal - watch the occasional game on-line, read the match reports, read and occasionally contribute to this thread. If I lived in Melbourne I'd attend the odd game, maybe 1 or 2 a year. For those of you closer to the kennel it may be a bit more than that, including financial support. Whatever you can manage.

The worst thing we can do right now is send a message to the playing group that they've lost us.

 

[TBOW]

We're as much to blame imo. Clubs with good cultures don't lose as many good players as we have. Sure, other clubs have offered more money, but a good environment and good group would perhaps allow for players to accept slight unders. We have to turn it around soon, surely. We're in no man's land as an organisation and the fact we delisted our VC without a coach locked away is idiotic. Gonna be a long time til we're competitive again I suspect.

I feel we may have outsmarted ourselves with our list management. Early on we seemed too prioritise hoarding youth, thinking that down the track we would have a core of gun footballers in their prime winning flag after flag. Unfortunately that youth after a couple of years of development was irresistible to the expansion clubs and we ended up in a cycle of being raided.
This has eroded our team unity, our success and our culture in general which has now made it even harder to retain players.
Sadly I think we can't accept too much assistance from the AFLW as we are still one of only two VIC teams that has won a premiership.
We will need to dig ourselves out of this hole, hopefully this current shake up is the first step.

 

[TBOW]

I'd almost forgotten with all the other news that we are also chasing Zimmi Farquharson from Brisbane.
She could be a very good value pick up as a young tall forward.
Also, if we were to get Gold Coasts first round pick for Lynch, our first pick of the second round suddenly becomes as valuable as pick 1 in the Queensland pool. That could make it a very good value trade for us.

 

[Couch Coach]

I understand why everybody is disengaged from AFLW right now. I feel the same.

However (not picking on you Drb, just using your post as a trigger) we need to look at it from two other perspectives:

1. The players. How will they feel when they read/hear of so many members losing interest, no longer wanting to support or follow the WB AFLW side? How much more likely will they be to leave themselves if they feel the club is a fan-free zone when it comes to women's footy? Especially when they look over at the support other clubs are getting. Remember many of these kids are barely out of their teens and have limited life experience to deal with these hard times. You wouldn't blame them for having their heads turned toward greener pastures.

2. The equivalent malaise in men's footy. At the end of season '23 a lot of us were very pissed off. Rightly so. In their impotent rage many members here were saying they are going to punish the club by not joining, downgrading, etc. An understandable reaction because how else - apart from an angry letter to Ameet - can the anonymous member express their disappointment and displeasure? In response, some here argued that penalising the club in this way is only going to make things worse. There were other ways that might make an impact. In a response from the club we have already seen a coaching cleanout, a footy dept review with a respected external consultant engaged to assist, open letter to members, a largely positive draft/trade period, important players re-signed or committing to the club, etc. Already there's a sense that we have turned the corner ... or at least we're arriving at the corner and we look like turning it! Of course 2024 still needs to be the proof of that.

So my advice would be to stay the course with the AFLW side. It's not an awful lot to ask. It doesn't mean that we all have to be rabid AFLW fans. Just maintain at least the level of following that we've done in the past. For me that's pretty minimal - watch the occasional game on-line, read the match reports, read and occasionally contribute to this thread. If I lived in Melbourne I'd attend the odd game, maybe 1 or 2 a year. For those of you closer to the kennel it may be a bit more than that, including financial support. Whatever you can manage.

The worst thing we can do right now is send a message to the playing group that they've lost us.

Collingwood fan here and I feel for you.

We are very much in the same boat with our supporters being disenfranchised by the rules the AFLW administration have aplied and the fact that we can't grow connections with our players as they will most likely leave to prop up expansion clubs.
Yes some of the blame must be applied to the club for not creating an enviroment where the players want to stay but there is only so much you can do in a semi professional environment. Hey we even had an elite netball team which should have helped break the male dominance feel at most AFL clubs.

Hopefully the AFLW administration acknowledges this frustration and does something to build connection between the players and fans at clubs like yours, Collingwood and probably Carlton as they are missing out on a potential area of growth.

 

[Bulldogs85]