All Australian thread 2014

[Port Of Gold]

Was hard to fit in
Everybody I wanted
But I did my best.

FF: Luke Bruest ~ Tom Hawkins ~ Robbie Gray
HF: Lance Franklin ~ Nick Riewoldt ~ Jack Riewoldt
C: Dom Tyson ~ Josh Kennedy ~ Steele Sidebotom
HB: Shaun Burgoyne ~ Alipate Carilile ~ Brodie Smith
FB: Nick Smith ~ Eric MacKenzie ~ Daniel Talia
R: Aaron Sandilands ~ Gary Ablett ~ Tom Liberatore
B: Travis Boak ~ Nathan Fyfe ~ Brent Harvey
Sub: Ollie Wines

 

[PowerForGood]

I don't get that everyone thinks that last couple of games / great individual games / consistency through the year / only against top 8 teams / etc is a reason for player A to be in ahead of player B.

It's about playing a great season, in your position, over a year, against everybody.

Eg Brad Ebert averages over 26 possessions, 6 tackles against top 8 teams. Travis Boak averages almost 30 possessions against top 8 teams. Does that make them more or less likely to get an AA position?

 

[mike123]

It would make sense that the buffoons on the All-Australian selection committee would choose Stephen Milne in 2012, Chad Wingard in 2013 and then in 2014, they'd overlook the Hawthorn forward pocket who kicked more goals than those two and actually has a defensive side to his game as well.

Wingard deserved his spot

 

[PowerForGood]

It would make sense that the buffoons on the All-Australian selection committee would choose Stephen Milne in 2012, Chad Wingard in 2013 and then in 2014, they'd overlook the Hawthorn forward pocket who kicked more goals than those two and actually has a defensive side to his game as well.

Because it might be that in each of those 3 years, the three players were better than said Hawthorn forward pocket in that year.
It is a yearly award after all.

 

[mike123]

B: M. Johnson, M. Talia, K. Simpson
HB: B. Smith, C. Hooker, S. Burgoyne

C: B. Harvey, J. Kennedy, S. Pendlebury

HF: P. Dangerfield, L. Franklin, L. Breust
F: C. Wingard, T. Hawkins, J. Shults

R. A. Sandilands, D. Beams, G. Ablett

I/C: L. Parker M. Hibberd, R. Grey, C. Ward

 

[tacopavlich]

Care to reassess on Ballantyne? 11 goals in two weeks for a small forward, including BOG against Richmond last week.

AA is decided over the year, not two games. Ballantyne can make a case but he'll need to continue his form.

 

[Bardo State]

I don't get that everyone thinks that last couple of games / great individual games / consistency through the year / only against top 8 teams / etc is a reason for player A to be in ahead of player B.

It's about playing a great season, in your position, over a year, against everybody.

Eg Brad Ebert averages over 26 possessions, 6 tackles against top 8 teams. Travis Boak averages almost 30 possessions against top 8 teams. Does that make them more or less likely to get an AA position?

It should.

Schulz has scored just under half of his goals against GWS, Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs.

 

[JHF1870]

That's idiotic. Should be a guarantee really.

Schulz is having a great consistent year. Definitely belongs in the forward line.

B: Hibberd Talia Smith
HB: Johnson Hooker Birchall
C: Pendlebury Ablett Beams
HF: Fyfe Hawkins Gray
F: Breust Schulz Franklin
R: Sandi Kennedy Macrae
Int: Jones Boak Prestia Jacobs

It should.

Schulz has scored just under half of his goals against GWS, Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs.

So why arent the other guys on 60 goals then?

 

[JZTIME!]

Thompson back to his AA form today. Needs another 5 or 6 games like this to go back to back though

 

[Bicco]

I don't get that everyone thinks that last couple of games / great individual games / consistency through the year / only against top 8 teams / etc is a reason for player A to be in ahead of player B.

It's about playing a great season, in your position, over a year, against everybody.

Eg Brad Ebert averages over 26 possessions, 6 tackles against top 8 teams. Travis Boak averages almost 30 possessions against top 8 teams. Does that make them more or less likely to get an AA position?

Natanui was AA ruck based on 'X factor", so any reason is as good as any other.

 

[Bardo State]

So why arent the other guys on 60 goals then?

I'll take someone consistently getting 2-4 goals against good teams over someone who dines out on crap teams and then does **** all in big games. And I'm not exaggerating.

Against Hawthorn and the might of Ryan Schoenmakers, Schulz managed 6 disposals (with 4 effective), no marks and just the one goal over the top late in the game. Against Fremantle he touched the ball 4 times (with 3 effective), took 3 marks and again just the one goal. One of his better big games against Geelong, he managed 9 disposals (with 5 effective), 5 marks and one goal.

It's not just that his output is less than that against better sides, save for the Sydney game he may as well not have even been there.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Was hard to fit in
Everybody I wanted
But I did my best.

FF: Luke Bruest ~ Tom Hawkins ~ Robbie Gray
HF: Lance Franklin ~ Nick Riewoldt ~ Jack Riewoldt
C: Dom Tyson ~ Josh Kennedy ~ Steele Sidebotom
HB: Shaun Burgoyne ~ Alipate Carilile ~ Brodie Smith
FB: Nick Smith ~ Eric MacKenzie ~ Daniel Talia
R: Aaron Sandilands ~ Gary Ablett ~ Tom Liberatore
B: Travis Boak ~ Nathan Fyfe ~ Brent Harvey
Sub: Ollie Wines

toplel

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I'll take someone consistently getting 2-4 goals against good teams over someone who dines out on crap teams and then does **** all in big games.And I'm not exaggerating.

Against Hawthorn and the might of Ryan Schoenmakers, Schulz managed 6 disposals (with 4 effective), no marks and just the one goal over the top late in the game. Against Fremantle he touched the ball 4 times (with 3 effective), took 3 marks and again just the one goal. One of his better big games against Geelong, he managed 9 disposals (with 5 effective), 5 marks and one goal.

It's not just that his output is less than that against better sides, save for the Sydney game he may as well not have even been there.

This is the All Australian team. I will take the man who has kicked the most goals for the year.

At this time of year that's Schulz and he is 6 ahead of the next best guy. Clearly one of the best forwards in the comp right now (equal with buddy).

 

[Bardo State]

This is the All Australian team. I will take the man who has kicked the most goals.

I'll take the players who have had the best seasons.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I'll take the players who have had the best seasons.

which would be the guy who kicks the most goals... Thanks for agreeing

 

[Bardo State]

which would be the guy who kicks the most goals... Thanks for agreeing

I'd say the player who kicks 4 against Hawthorn and 3 against North is in a better run of form than the guy who kicks 8 against GWS and does nothing against Hawthorn. Goal tally is only a part of evaluating a forward's season, as Jack Riewoldt circa 2012 is aware.

 

[The GOAT]

This is the All Australian team. I will take the man who has kicked the most goals for the year.

At this time of year that's Schulz and he is 6 ahead of the next best guy. Clearly the best forward in the comp right now.

Most goals doesn't equal best season, look at Riewoldt a couple of years ago. Hawkins and Franklin have impacted more games than Jay at this point in time

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Care to reassess on Ballantyne? 11 goals in two weeks for a small forward, including BOG against Richmond last week.

2 weeks doesn't equal a season!

BOG against Richmond is hardly difficult stuff.

He's a good player, but there have been better performers over all the year.

Robbie Gray is still miles in front!

 

[PowerForGood]

Most goals doesn't equal best season, look at Riewoldt a couple of years ago. Hawkins and Franklin have impacted more games than Jay at this point in time

I can see your point, it would do you good to remember that next time a Hawk tries to equate Wingard with Breust 2013, or Breust and Gray 2014.

 

[JZTIME!]

o

I can see your point, it would do you good to remember that next time a Hawk tries to equate Wingard with Breust 2013, or Breust and Gray 2014.

or Lindsay Thomas with all of them last year

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I stand by my statement. The job of a full forward is to kick goals therefore the full forward with the most goals for the year has had the best year. The AA is the team of the best players of that year therefore the player that has the most goals must be in it.

(And please stop using the Riewoldt example to try to strengthen your argument. Coleman medallist that have made it (by year) 2013, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000 I honestly could go on and on through the years but it would take to long. Moral of the story the selectors ****** up or no one likes JR)

 

[tacopavlich]

which would be the guy who kicks the most goals... Thanks for agreeing

Not neccessarily. Jack rightfully didn't get AA the year he won a Coleman because his influence on results and games were below that of other forwards.

in my opinion Schulz deserves AA and whether he wins the Coleman or not is irrelevant.

 

[calyam]

I stand by my statement. The job of a full forward is to kick goals therefore the full forward with the most goals for the year has had the best year. The AA is the team of the best players of that year therefore the player that has the most goals must be in it.

(And please stop using the Riewoldt example to try to strengthen your argument. Coleman medallist that have made it (by year) 2013, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000 I honestly could go on and on through the years but it would take to long. Moral of the story the selectors ****** up or no one likes JR)

You're correct if you use the extremely narrow definition of a FF from the 1990s and earlier. If you've watched a game in the past fifteen years it should become quite obvious that kicking goals is but one of many jobs that a FF performs. Winning the Coleman Medal is not now, nor sure it be, a guarantee to make the AA team. In the same way that winning the most disposals should not guarantee a spot or winning the most hitouts.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

You're correct if you use the extremely narrow definition of a FF from the 1990s and earlier. If you've watched a game in the past fifteen years it should become quite obvious that kicking goals is but one of many jobs that a FF performs. Winning the Coleman Medal is not now, nor sure it be, a guarantee to make the AA team. In the same way that winning the most disposals should not guarantee a spot or winning the most hitouts.

Yes you are completely right, goals are not the only thing these days, but yet this also supports my argument for Schulz being in the AA team ahead of Hawkins, as my earlier post said:

Schulz is beating Hawkins in nearly every single stat:

Kicks, Handballs, Disposals, Goals, Marks, Tackles, Goals, less behinds, Same amount of inside 50s, better DE%, Less clangers, Contested Marks, Clearances, Stoppages, 1%ers, Goal Accuracy %, hell even fantasy points...

But yet nearly everyone has Hawkins in their AA teams and barely anyone has Schulz

So not only has he been a better goal kicker, he has been a better all round player as well.

Right now the AA FF and CHF would be
CHF: Franklin
FF: Schulz

 

[Spoken4]

2 weeks doesn't equal a season!

BOG against Richmond is hardly difficult stuff.

He's a good player, but there have been better performers over all the year.

Robbie Gray is still miles in front!

Yes it can* (if the season is reduced to two games).

Ballas is on a roll.