Mega Thread All things Jack Watts - 2014

[guitarded]

I think Watts is a very important part of our forward structure. Will blossom under Roos.

 

[Captain Jack]

Strong clubs like Hawthorn don't bottom out. Geelong and Sydney are in the same boat.

 

[Dez!]

Strong clubs like Hawthorn don't bottom out. Geelong and Sydney are in the same boat.

Ummmmmm how do you think they got Franklin and Roughy?

 

[burem dees]

If the pretty boy stays he will get a few games at most to show he won't be third to the contest when he was closest to the contest in the first place. How many times did we see those token efforts this year ? It's damn hard to change your courage, he shows very little of that so he has some upside. But shit it needs to be good or he will learn the hard way at Casey and if no change it will be the highway and valueless, UNWANTED

Blues supporters would hang Malthouse for recruiting a softxxxx.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

And Franklin?......

Yep, so the discussion was about what it would be like if Franklin left, and what incentive Watts would have to join

 

[richskee]

T

Where'd you get the mail from?

Roos openly said in the presser that he wants jack and col to sign on.

EDIT - Theo beat me to it. Great minds think alike!

From the same person who told me a month a go that Roos would pen a 3 year deal with Ling as his assistant. Still have the text msg with the date too.

 

[Theo X]

T

From the same person who told me a month a go that Roos would pen a 3 year deal with Ling as his assistant. Still have the text msg with the date too.

Well, they were half right.

 

[maxmustard]

Ummmmmm how do you think they got Franklin and Roughy?

They were a terrible side back then, they won't bottom out as a strategy.

 

[Dez!]

They were a terrible side back then, they won't bottom out as a strategy.

Bottoming out isn't a strategy, it's just a result of being shit.

 

[maxmustard]

Bottoming out isn't a strategy, it's just a result of being shit.

Bottoming out was a strategy attempted to load up on picks and get a super team. The whole tanking thing.

 

[Theo X]

Ummmmmm how do you think they got Franklin and Roughy?

And Dowler and Ellis and Thorp and Lewis etc etc

 

[Dee Won]

and Hodge

 

[Captain Jack]

I will clarify that. Hawthorn weren't a 'great' club in the 90s or early 00s... they have since elevated to that sort of status both on-field and off IMO. They are now big and powerful enough that they won't need to bottom out like they did in 04-05 and before because good players will always want to play for them - see Lake.

 

[rhaz]

see Lake.

Burgoyne
Hale
Gibson

 

[autocol]

They are now big and powerful enough that they won't need to bottom out

They may not need to bottom out, but the probability that they remain premiership contenders over a sustained period is still very low.

Collingwood are the biggest, most powerful club and their dynasty - which started after Hawthorn's - is already collapsing.

 

[Topkent]

Burgoyne
Hale
Gibson

Guerra
Gunston


Spangher....lol

 

[Captain Jack]

They may not need to bottom out, but the probability that they remain premiership contenders over a sustained period is still very low.

Collingwood are the biggest, most powerful club and their dynasty - which started after Hawthorn's - is already collapsing.

Yes that is the problem with my theory haha... but I think Collingwood's problem is the clash between 1. Buckley's ego, 2. Eddie's ego and 3. the collective ego of the Rat Pack. And how hilarious it is to watch them implode.

More broadly, the trend of the last few years has been the bigger clubs having sustained success and the smaller clubs struggling. The last 'small' club to win a flag was Port, and even they have a massive and rich history in the SANFL. Sydney aren't huge but their culture more than makes up for it. Brisbane, also small but massive handouts from the AFL back in the day.

So I seem to be shooting myself in the foot here.

Put it this way: look at the Victorian teams on the ladder this year.

1 Hawks
2 Geelong
5 Richmond
6 Collingwood
7 Essendon
9 Carlton
10 North
15 Bulldogs
16 St Kilda
17 Melbourne

That correlates, give or take a few spots, very closely with the size of the clubs in terms of membership and total spending, or however you want to measure it.

Fair to say it's a worrying trend for us.

 

[Topkent]

Yes that is the problem with my theory haha... but I think Collingwood's problem is the clash between 1. Buckley's ego, 2. Eddie's ego and 3. the collective ego of the Rat Pack. And how hilarious it is to watch them implode.

More broadly, the trend of the last few years has been the bigger clubs having sustained success and the smaller clubs struggling. The last 'small' club to win a flag was Port, and even they have a massive and rich history in the SANFL. Sydney aren't huge but their culture more than makes up for it. Brisbane, also small but massive handouts from the AFL back in the day.

So I seem to be shooting myself in the foot here.

Put it this way: look at the Victorian teams on the ladder this year.

1 Hawks
2 Geelong
5 Richmond
6 Collingwood
7 Essendon
9 Carlton
10 North
15 Bulldogs
16 St Kilda
17 Melbourne

That correlates, give or take a few spots, very closely with the size of the clubs in terms of membership and total spending, or however you want to measure it.

Fair to say it's a worrying trend for us.

I think that is purely coincidence , go back to 2006-2010 and it' was collingwood stkilda wb an geelong and essendon and Richmond carlton were down with us

 

[Captain Jack]

I think that is purely coincidence , go back to 2006-2010 and it' was collingwood stkilda wb an geelong and essendon and Richmond carlton were down with us

Yeah it may well be, but I can see the AFL moving in the direction of the EPL in terms of the ever-increasing Football Department spending/arms race. At the end of the day it will always be a cyclical competition to some extent, but I reckon that the way things are going and have gone the past few years, in any given year there's a far greater chance that Collingwood or Hawthorn will be up near the top than St Kilda or the Dogs, for the above reasons.

 

[Captain Jack]

Another point I will add to that is the movement of good senior players over the past few years. Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Lake, Goddard, Rivers, Ball... Common theme is a move from a smaller club (often struggling at the time) to one of the big powerhouses.

Of course there will always be exceptions (love you Clarky) but there is certainly a pattern there IMO.

 

[Deefolt]

Another point I will add to that is the movement of good senior players over the past few years. Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Lake, Goddard, Rivers, Ball... Common theme is a move from a smaller club (often struggling at the time) to one of the big powerhouses.

Of course there will always be exceptions (love you Clarky) but there is certainly a pattern there IMO.

Pattern could come down to coincidences but hard to fight against it, having said that, dees in neelds reign onwards are spending far more then some clubs, still despairing, currently it hasn't to do with our funds I believe.

Edit: also Dawes to melbourne

 

[Topkent]

Yeah it may well be, but I can see the AFL moving in the direction of the EPL in terms of the ever-increasing Football Department spending/arms race. At the end of the day it will always be a cyclical competition to some extent, but I reckon that the way things are going and have gone the past few years, in any given year there's a far greater chance that Collingwood or Hawthorn will be up near the top than St Kilda or the Dogs, for the above reasons.

Yeah true and I reckon it's easier to play well when 70,000 fans are cheering you on rather than 16,000

 

[mrmonkey]

Well a couple of years ago we were pushing for 40,000 members. If we have significant improvement under Roos we will get over 40k. I think Melbourne and stkilda have greater memberships than north and dogs and we ate struggling. Also Peter Jackson we have lost 6k members a year under Neelds reign. I reckon in 2 years add the 12k plus maybe some new members, and we could teach 45k

 

[LeverPuller]

Another point I will add to that is the movement of good senior players over the past few years. Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Lake, Goddard, Rivers, Ball... Common theme is a move from a smaller club (often struggling at the time) to one of the big powerhouses.

Of course there will always be exceptions (love you Clarky) but there is certainly a pattern there IMO.

Think it will end up closer to the NFL. Where spending ends up roughly equal due to the market being maxed out and thus it turns into a quality of management thing.

Eg Green Bay have the smallest market but have won multiple Super Bowls, yet the Jets have a massive market (NYC) but have a history of massive mismanagement.

 

[Captain Jack]

Think it will end up closer to the NFL. Where spending ends up roughly equal due to the market being maxed out and thus it turns into a quality of management thing.

Eg Green Bay have the smallest market but have won multiple Super Bowls, yet the Jets have a massive market (NYC) but have a history of massive mismanagement.

Good point. IMO we need to be Green Bay, because we will never be the Jets. Leave that to Essendon. Sure we might get to 45k members, but the Saints got near that during their successful years so that's not too hard. Point is we are never going to catch the Big 4, let alone the Perth clubs... Our market is much smaller for all sorts of reasons. We have to build smart, because entering into an arms race will end poorly for us.