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Markfs said:
I said at the start of this when I first started posting in this thread, that I couldnt understand why the government had to be so pro-Israeli. We've learnt a lot over the course as the pressures and alliances have become more evident. However, you have to wonder about Dutton. Does he have german or jewish roots? I say German because they took a fairly irrational position a few months back because of their guilt. Maybe Dutton has had a problem in the past with a burger joint near him. I've seen people trace their political views to relatively minor events. Maybe Dutts has experienced a bad moment with a palestianian australian voter. Maybe it's just that he has done all the figures and arab-australians are just not going to vote for him, so he has cast his lot with the jews (excuse the pun and please excuse the biblical/jewish connotations)
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Look, say what you like about the actions of the Israeli state. But if you are suggesting the events in Caulfield that day were a mere trifle, I cant agree. It was a calculated provocation designed to be as offensive as possible to the Jewish community and therefore abhorrent in its own right.
 
Markfs said:
I said at the start of this when I first started posting in this thread, that I couldnt understand why the government had to be so pro-Israeli. We've learnt a lot over the course as the pressures and alliances have become more evident. However, you have to wonder about Dutton. Does he have german or jewish roots? I say German because they took a fairly irrational position a few months back because of their guilt. Maybe Dutton has had a problem in the past with a burger joint near him. I've seen people trace their political views to relatively minor events. Maybe Dutts has experienced a bad moment with a palestianian australian voter. Maybe it's just that he has done all the figures and arab-australians are just not going to vote for him, so he has cast his lot with the jews (excuse the pun and please excuse the biblical/jewish connotations)
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I'd be surprised if that was the case - working class conservatives are the new heartland for the Liberal Party - Australia's Islamic community should be a gold mine for them.
 
Mauvais Cheval said:
Look, say what you like about the actions of the Israeli state. But if you are suggesting the events in Caulfield that day were a mere trifle, I cant agree. It was a calculated provocation designed to be as offensive as possible to the Jewish community and therefore abhorrent in its own right.
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i suppose that i rate it second in a list which contains 33,000 dead...
 

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sr36 said:
I'd be surprised if that was the case - working class conservatives are the new heartland for the Liberal Party - Australia's Islamic community should be a gold mine for them.
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I think in the end, that the dynamic of the changing roles of the democratic/republican parties doesnt fit so well in Australia. I know johnny paid for the working class to vote for him with the sell-off of public institutions and subsequent middle class welfare, but I think manufacturing workers were "sold-off" by the ALP in in the early 80s...a long time ago. I acknowledge that there is a cohort who want to buy real estate and get rich that way and see the Libs as the enablers. Also, the social conservative aspect, which is a good point and conservative middle eastern people might see the Libs as their party. I probably did go overboard with my statement, and I must admit that I'm surprised to see that a growing proportion of minority groups in the US support Trump....why not here..
 
Markfs said:
i suppose that i rate it second in a list which contains 33,000 dead...
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Sure but since when has the rule been that that is the threshold for something to be beyond the pale?

Are we not allowed to consider anything, anything at all unacceptable in the light of 33000 dead>

Go paint a swastika on a synagoggue?

Not as bad as 33,000 dead

The ridiculously simplistic reductive logic you follow is as moronic as it's counterpart from Zevie.

1300 Israelis murdered by Hamas?

Well, nothing else is as horiffic as that so dont talk to me about collateral damage.

You are both exihibit A (perhaps Exhibit A and A-1) of how this shit got here, and why it will never be any good, both endelssly repeating your highlight atrocity of choice as justification for ignoring anything bad done by the side you support. You are dark mirrors of each other, shit and shitter, and both as nauseating and both as convinced in the moral rightness of your positions.
 
Markfs said:
I think in the end, that the dynamic of the changing roles of the democratic/republican parties doesnt fit so well in Australia. I know johnny paid for the working class to vote for him with the sell-off of public institutions and subsequent middle class welfare, but I think manufacturing workers were "sold-off" by the ALP in in the early 80s...a long time ago. I acknowledge that there is a cohort who want to buy real estate and get rich that way and see the Libs as the enablers. Also, the social conservative aspect, which is a good point and conservative middle eastern people might see the Libs as their party. I probably did go overboard with my statement, and I must admit that I'm surprised to see that a growing proportion of minority groups in the US support Trump....why not here..
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Libs path to government is through regional areas and outer suburbs. Could have just kept silent on Gaza and had a big swing against labour from the muslim voters in the outer suburbs. I don't think their Gazan stance gets them any votes at all, but loses some.
 
Mauvais Cheval said:
Sure but since when has the rule been that that is the threshold for something to be beyond the pale?

Are we not allowed to consider anything, anything at all unacceptable in the light of 33000 dead>

Go paint a swastika on a synagoggue?

Not as bad as 33,000 dead

The ridiculously simplistic reductive logic you follow is as moronic as it's counterpart from Zevie.

1300 Israelis murdered by Hamas?

Well, nothing else is as horiffic as that so dont talk to me about collateral damage.

You are both exihibit A (perhaps Exhibit A and A-1) of how this s**t got here, and why it will never be any good, both endelssly repeating your highlight atrocity of choice as justification for ignoring anything bad done by the side you support. You are dark mirrors of each other, s**t and shitter, and both as nauseating and both as convinced in the moral rightness of your positions.
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Have your say. Read into what I wrote with whatever you like. I was suggesting that a hamburger joint incident is a mere trifle when compared to 33,00 palestinians dead, but I concede that you might think otherwise. I wrote that Dutton might have had such a hamburger joint experience in his past that might have had an irrational impact on his statements as a future prime minister of australia. I said that because I'm still trying to work out why he has taken this position. Politicans dont seem to like to share.

I promise to post as a kookaburra sometime in the future. Maybe you'll appreciate that...
 
sr36 said:
Libs path to government is through regional areas and outer suburbs. Could have just kept silent on Gaza and had a big swing against labour from the muslim voters in the outer suburbs. I don't think their Gazan stance gets them any votes at all, but loses some.
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I think what you fail to acknowledge is that both parties are not making rational decisions free from pressure. I honestly believe that Dutton feels he has to represent the views of lobby groups within the party and funding the party. He might tell them that the best way to win the next election is to remain silent, but they may want the fight taken up to any opposing view, because his sucess is less important to them than the longterm success of the cause. Does this dynamic operate in real life? I dunno but I struggle to come up with something that explains his actions.
 
A surgeon from Gaza was invited to speak in Germany about the situation he has been working in.

He's been detained by German authorities, and will not be allowed entry to speak about such provocative things.

I'm not sure that the Germans really know how not to be fascist. It's just one of their things, something they do, like nudism.

 
The acceleration of violence in the West Bank should be seen in the context of Gaza.

At best, actions of settlers are opportunistic.

 

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vindaloo said:
Mass stabbing in Sydney. Looks like domestic terrorism. Absolutely tragic.
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Would you look at that? Your baseless speculation in an attempt to push some bizarre narrative is already being countered by police - who'd have thought?
 
gouki88 said:
Would you look at that? Your baseless speculation in an attempt to push some bizarre narrative is already being countered by police - who'd have thought?
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Well you would suspect it was terrorism of some sort. Looks like it's a method up gargasoulos type of scenario. Absolutely tragic either way.
 
gouki88 said:
Those two things are not remotely the same. Vast majority of violence isn't terror-related. Do you know what constitutes terrorism?
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Sorry I'm more distressed by the tragic event then carping/ political point scoring.
 
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