An Injury FREE fully fit Hawthorn team

[HeHateMe]

im going to agree with the panther we should of won the flag in 07. dumb us thinking we were a bit inexperienced

 

[MinerBoy]

Very true, but just for an example, the saints in rnd17 had out Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Hayes, Baker, Montagna, Goddard and Gilbert and still beat the Hawks.

Injuries can't be an excuse

That was a grand effort by the Saints. Notwithstanding the fact that the Hawks had more players missing from their best 22 that day than St. Kilda did and had been playing like that all year. Team confidence was hardly at an all time high.

A better comparison would be with both teams close to their best squads. Say something like the 2008 preliminary final.

 

[MinerBoy]

Rioli doesn't kick too many crumbing goals, he spends too much time up the ground. Your only athletic midfielder is Young and it sounds like he is struggling with injuries..

So if Rioli isn't a crumbing forward he must be an athletic midfielder then?

 

[Skeppersap]

Re: 2007. There were two teams we struggled against mainly due to conflicting game-styles. Kangaroos and Adelaide.

Can't remember off-hand the result, but very late in the season it was win and play Pies-Cats-Port, or lose and play Crows-Kangas-Cats.

We lost, and it probably cost us 07. We "made amends" in 08, despite getting younger before the trainwreck that was 09.

Still, compared to Melbourne and Carlton (the only two teams near our age makeup), we are doing ok in the last few years. If not for the Fev loss, I'd think the Blues are almost ready for an early top-4 shot also.

Sounds like you think you would have beaten Geelong in 2007. Geelong 2007/2009 were a very different prospect to Geelong 2008.

You are kidding yourself.

 

[The Donners]

Someone, tap this guy on the shoulder and tell him to quit.... while he is well behind.

You're disputing the rules of the MRP?

Just accept the rules and it'll make life much easier for all of us!

 

[MinerBoy]

So does that mean the "injury excuse" for 2008 is a crock of shit? If you have Premiership depth, surely you could have made finals in 2008?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!

LOL.

2008 Hawthorn FC Premiers.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

[MinerBoy]

If every team in the comp was injury free and fully fit, I'd have the Hawks somewhere between 2nd and 4th. This is based pretty much on my opinion that they are capable of kicking an average of 18 goals a game due to their gun key forwards and attacking, skillful midfield.

Negatives are that they're lacking a gun tall defender and a decent ruckman. So structurally they won't be as good as 2008.

About the best summary so far. Another good post Claude.

 

[MinerBoy]

Why didn't a full fit & injury free Hawthorn side fail to win the flag in 2007?

I thought we did fail to win the 2007 flag! If we didn't fail to win it, it means we would have succeeded in winning it.

 

[MinerBoy]

Sounds like you think you would have beaten Geelong in 2007. Geelong 2007/2009 were a very different prospect to Geelong 2008.

You are kidding yourself.

Exactly right. Geelong were nearly unbeatable in 2008. Nearly.

 

[Schmucta]

As much as it grieves me to enter the fray here, and as much as I believe these threads don't serve any constructive purpose, I wish to make one point.

This point mysteriously eluded all football writers at the time, and pretty much everyone else since.

The point is this.

When St Kilda had their "ZOMG!! St Kilda just beat the premiers with SEVEN players out!!!" moment...Hawthorn actually had EIGHT of their premiership team out.

It wasn't mentioned because most of them had been out for weeks, whereas St Kilda's injuries all happened in a hurry.

So your injury ravaged team beat our injury ravaged team. Hardly amazing.

It's only your injuries that were huge obstacles, I guess...ours were obviously quite trivial.

I WAS NOT specifically debating the St Kilda vs Hawthorn game.

It was someone else who mentioned the St Kilda game as proof that somehow, injuries didn't affect Hawthorn's season. You misread my point.

St Kilda had many injuries that week, and won which was a great effort, of course. But it doesn't change the fact that we also had many injuries, and had them all season, which was conveniently forgotten in the aftermath of that game. I made no mention of whose injuries were worse...and, yes, St Kilda's players out were 'better' than Hawthorn's players out. Happy?

Does the St Kilda game suddenly prove that injuries are not a factor in AFL games, or in Hawthorn's poor season? No.

That was my point

I'm quite happy to leave the St Kilda game out of it, except for people drawing unwarranted conclusions from it.

Self-ownage at its finest

 

[Schmucta]

That was a grand effort by the Saints. Notwithstanding the fact that the Hawks had more players missing from their best 22 that day than St. Kilda did and had been playing like that all year. Team confidence was hardly at an all time high.

A better comparison would be with both teams close to their best squads. Say something like the 2008 preliminary final.

This is total utter crap of the highest order.

A better comparison would be to name your top 5 players, against the Saints top 5 players and see who had the most playing that day.

You won't do that though as it will show just how much of a pathetic effort that game was by your team.

Live with it.

 

[pipcoo]

10 Flags in the Last 50 Years
More to come Soon.
Don't see Essendon Carlton Geelong doing any better than that.
Everybody seems to be righting us off,
we LOVE that.

 

[PewPewPew]

Hawks, please stop feeding the Bomber Trolls - it is quite obvious they have their nose out of joint because they see us heading (back) up the ladder and see themselves hanging around the fringe of the eight for a while.

On topic, to sum up 24 pages of posts (much of it in respose to Essendon trolling):

Hawks had a significant number of their premiership team unable to perform a sufficient preseason (for various reasons including late surgeries & injuries during the preseason). This is a FACT, although some seem to want to focus on it being an 'Excuse' - just a matter of perspective really....

It is hardly unreasonable to contend that said high injury toll and lack of pre season base fitness played a major part in the hawks form throughout the season (i.e. 1st, 2nd year and backup players being required to play major roles in the team) - including the implementation of effective game-plans. Anyone that simply says "Hawks game-plan was worked out" without taking aforementioned factors into account cannot seriously think they have any insight into AFL tactics (i.e. how can a game-plan be implemented with 100% effectiveness with 50-80% of personnel available). Sure, the game-plan had much greater focus on it but to deny that it does not revolve around a team contribution shows a significant lank of understanding of said game-plan.

No denying Hawks have lost some contributers from their 2008 premiership team. I think it is not out of line to suggest that most Hawks fans are content by replacement with some quality experience (Gibson, Burger, hooper (kinda)) and some (very young) exciting potential who now have some experience in the big league due to injuries last year (Shoenmakers, Whitecross, Shiels to name a few). Our figners are (obviously) crossed that proven important players (Hodge, Lewis, Franklin, Young, Gillam et al.) who were hampered last pre season will come into round 1 fit and firing and even (dare we suggest) improve....

Losing contributers to ruck department is a concern but we now have a full time ruck coach (which for some reason we didn't have last year ). Renouf is still bottom age and hopfully Taylor can be taught how to NOT give away 6-7 frees per match (new rules implemented last year crucified him and he should lean/be taught from the experience).

In summary, most impartial fans * would suggest that the hawks challenging for a top 4 spot is not unrealistic. Odds at most betting agencies would seem to support this.

*Dons fans don't count - they have been blinded by their own self importance for nigh on 10 years (sadly, a trait that is creeping into some of the lesser Hawk BF posters here recently).....

I would suggest that most opposition are more concerned about us returning to 2008 form than we are of having a repeat of the train wreck that was 2009.

 

[The Donners]

Hawks had a significant number of their premiership team unable to perform a sufficient preseason (for various reasons including late surgeries & injuries during the preseason). This is a FACT, although some seem to want to focus on it being an 'Excuse' - just a matter of perspective really....

Take a look at Essendon for example, it had more players have post season ops than Hawthorn (as well as pre-season ops - Hurley, Pears, McVeigh, Welsh) and yet finished above Hawthorn and beat them twice.

Geelong had far more important players than Hawthorn's fringe premiership players missing for large chunks of the year, they won the flag.

I think perhaps you should take a look at who is actually blinded by their own self importance for nigh on 20 years.

 

[Schmucta]

10 Flags in the Last 50 Years
More to come Soon.
Don't see Essendon Carlton Geelong doing any better than that.
Everybody seems to be righting us off,
we LOVE that.

Why only the last 50 years? Why not the entirety of the VFL/AFL... oh thats right, because you want to skew the stats in your favour...

Hawks, please stop feeding the Bomber Trolls - it is quite obvious they have their nose out of joint because they see us heading (back) up the ladder and see themselves hanging around the fringe of the eight for a while.

On topic, to sum up 24 pages of posts (much of it in respose to Essendon trolling):

Hawks had a significant number of their premiership team unable to perform a sufficient preseason (for various reasons including late surgeries & injuries during the preseason). This is a FACT, although some seem to want to focus on it being an 'Excuse' - just a matter of perspective really....

It is hardly unreasonable to contend that said high injury toll and lack of pre season base fitness played a major part in the hawks form throughout the season (i.e. 1st, 2nd year and backup players being required to play major roles in the team) - including the implementation of effective game-plans. Anyone that simply says "Hawks game-plan was worked out" without taking aforementioned factors into account cannot seriously think they have any insight into AFL tactics (i.e. how can a game-plan be implemented with 100% effectiveness with 50-80% of personnel available). Sure, the game-plan had much greater focus on it but to deny that it does not revolve around a team contribution shows a significant lank of understanding of said game-plan.

No denying Hawks have lost some contributers from their 2008 premiership team. I think it is not out of line to suggest that most Hawks fans are content by replacement with some quality experience (Gibson, Burger, hooper (kinda)) and some (very young) exciting potential who now have some experience in the big league due to injuries last year (Shoenmakers, Whitecross, Shiels to name a few). Our figners are (obviously) crossed that proven important players (Hodge, Lewis, Franklin, Young, Gillam et al.) who were hampered last pre season will come into round 1 fit and firing and even (dare we suggest) improve....

Losing contributers to ruck department is a concern but we now have a full time ruck coach (which for some reason we didn't have last year ). Renouf is still bottom age and hopfully Taylor can be taught how to NOT give away 6-7 frees per match (new rules implemented last year crucified him and he should lean/be taught from the experience).

In summary, most impartial fans * would suggest that the hawks challenging for a top 4 spot is not unrealistic. Odds at most betting agencies would seem to support this.

*Dons fans don't count - they have been blinded by their own self importance for nigh on 10 years (sadly, a trait that is creeping into some of the lesser Hawk BF posters here recently).....

I would suggest that most opposition are more concerned about us returning to 2008 form than we are of having a repeat of the train wreck that was 2009.

Cool story bro.

And you keep crossing them figners champ

Take a look at Essendon for example, it had more players have post season ops than Hawthorn (as well as pre-season ops - Hurley, Pears, McVeigh, Welsh) and yet finished above Hawthorn and beat them twice.

Geelong had far more important players than Hawthorn's fringe premiership players missing for large chunks of the year, they won the flag.

I think perhaps you should take a look at who is actually blinded by their own self importance for nigh on 20 years.

The don't take well to reasoned posts, so this will glide straight on by.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Take a look at Essendon for example, it had more players have post season ops than Hawthorn (as well as pre-season ops - Hurley, Pears, McVeigh, Welsh) and yet finished above Hawthorn and beat them twice.

Geelong had far more important players than Hawthorn's fringe premiership players missing for large chunks of the year, they won the flag.

I think perhaps you should take a look at who is actually blinded by their own self importance for nigh on 20 years.

So what if Essendon beat us twice and finished higher in a year where 99% of football followers agree we were well below our best.
Save it. You've said your piece, and it's not getting any fresher.

 

[PewPewPew]

Cool story bro.

And you keep crossing them figners champ

The don't take well to reasoned posts, so this will glide straight on by.

Yup, that well reasoned post, backed up by your quality analysis (you even picked up on the typo ) has the Hawks stumped for 2010 and me very concerned...

I may just have to go to sportsbet and some money on the Hawks to win the flag at $9 whilst i'm putting $ on Dons to win the spoon at $15....

Thanks for contributing (bro) & good luck 2010 - ur going to need it.

 

[Schmucta]

Yup, that well reasoned post, backed up by your quality analysis (you even picked up on the typo ) has the Hawks stumped for 2009 and me very concerned...

I may just have to go to sportsbet and some money on the Hawks to win the flag at $9 whilst i'm putting $ on Dons to win the spoon at $15....

Thanks for contributing (bro) & good luck 2009 - ur going to need it.

2009 is long passed champ, and newsflash, your team was a laughing stock.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

At least this newest Bomber fan is a fresh face, even if he's not terribly bright.

Would be interesting to do a count though, I reckon we're nearly outnumbered in this thread for post from each club.

And they say they don't care about us. pfft.

 

[year of the cat]

Geez that "Injury FREE fully fit Hawthorn team" is off to a great start and we haven't even clocked over to 2010 yet.

This thread is redundant already.

 

[HeHateMe]

2009 is long passed champ, and newsflash, your team was a laughing stock.

here that boys we were this years laughing stock well.......... that only proves that we under performed,
if thats where we are at then y would we be laughing stocks???
are the attacks over..
coz us hawk supporters are geting a good laugh out of them
keep them coming

 

[Schmucta]

At least this newest Bomber fan is a fresh face, even if he's not terribly bright.

Would be interesting to do a count though, I reckon we're nearly outnumbered in this thread for post from each club.

And they say they don't care about us. pfft.

So what if we outnumber you in a thread where you again over rate your team, like to deflect any criticism about your precious boys and 99% of posters on Bigfooty realise that any truly reasoned post would be lost on people with intellects as robust as yours.
Save it. You've said your piece, and it's not getting any fresher.

 

[Schmucta]

here that boys we were this years laughing stock well.......... that only proves we under performed, if thats where we are at then y would we be laughing stocks??? are the attacks over.. coz us hawk supporters are geting a good laugh out of them keep them coming

Hmmmm

You couldn't beat an Essendon side which according to your teams intellectual posters is utter mediocrity. You had two cracks at this task as well.

You couldn't beat a St Kilda B grade side.

You lost TWICE to Port Adelaide, now this just on it's own is cause for belly laughs.

You failed to score in the first half and were smashed by 15 goals by the Bulldogs.

And I disagree that you underperformed in 09, I actually believe you OVER performed in 08.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So what if we outnumber you in this thread.

It couldn't look much more desperate really.

Bomber after Bomber, lining up to tell us we're no good.
Very similar to the North supporters at the end of 2007.

I guess you're hoping that if you tell yourselves that enough times it might come true.

 

[PewPewPew]

Hmmmm

And I disagree that you underperformed in 09, I actually believe you OVER performed in 08.

Yep, and most posts (bar Essendon for some reason ) on this thread seem to think that we will 'overperform' in 2010 again and feature in the finals...

Go figure....