Analysis Another Theory For Our Poor Form

[shewho]

Observation first: when we win contested possession we are a very good side, our outside run gets going and we look quick and slick. So far this year we won contested possession against St Kilda (177-166), Essendon (149-130) and first quarter against Geelong. This is not a new observation. I've rabbeted on about this, pointing out that we were good at this in 2013, 2014 and the last 4 games of 2015.

Issue: Why has our contested possession fallen off so badly. Why can it go from hero (1st Q v Geelong) to zero (Q2-Q4 v Geelong) so quickly.

Theory : Sense of purpose.

Explanation: In 2013-14 we had something to prove. We had to earn respect. This motivation resonated with the playing group. We were still young and with that came a degree of inconsistency and a drop off in the colder months when bigger bodies held an advantage, but no-one questioned our effort.

Our more recent failings in contested possession is not due to a lack of effort either, it's due to a lack of desire. People often confuse the two. When two players go for a ball, they both try their best to get it. But only one can get it and, more often than not, the one that wants it more prevails. I saw this first hand on a number of occasions on Saturday night. Geelong players just wanting the ball more than ours, in clearances and in marking contests.

We had that desire in 2013-14. We prefer not to talk about it much, but that desire was distilled in the John McCarthy tragedy that brought the players together and gave them a sense of purpose. There was some anger in there too- a recognised stage of grief.

But grief has more stages. I can't help thinking that maybe the group has moved on a bit and has lost that burning, cohesive desire it once had. A motivation hangover of sorts.

I don't care what anyone says, you can't have 100% burning desire all the time. The challenge for the coaching staff seems to be to find a new way of bringing the group together and to find a new way to motivate them. Because if we find that desire we had, we will win contested ball and if we do that, we will be a force again.

 

[Kingfish73]

There lies the problem, this playing group needs have all these external factors in place before they are willing to do all the right things to put together a quality team performance. If that is the case, FFS, what a bunch of soft footballers. Remove the cancers and put games into players who are willing to work and put it all on the line for the jumper, club and team mates. The amount of excuses on our performances is nothing short of staggering. I don't believe much I am hearing from the players or coaches at the moment.

 

[philreich]

Maybe the coaches can say, "If you don't have the necessary desire, we'll replace you with somebody who does until you do."

No excuses in my book - once you cross that white line on game day, you're an ambassador for the Port Adelaide Football Club, and when it's your time to do the hard yards, you're paid extremely handsomely to put your body on the line. If we've got some players who aren't prepared to do that, they can find another club!!!!!

 

[Coobk001]

The concept that what's going on is effort, intent or motivation is crap.

If our structure and method was right and effective the loss of the clearances wouldn't be hurting us so significantly. We are failing not because of effort but because we are a mess strategically and as a result we are incredibly easy to play against.

All year this year scoring against us has been a breeze while every score we've gotten has been the result of a monumental effort. We ride luck, maximum efforts and natural freakish talent to score while other teams waltz into goal. This stuff is deflating and highlights serious issues in our style and structure defensively, offensively and from stoppage.

I'm convinced though that 95% of our problem remains the stoppage and contested ball issues and if we can somehow improve in this area we will open up the rest of the game and will look far, far better than we do now. Our defense will thrive under less duress, our forward line will get a crack at a lot more flowing and quick forward entry and our confidence as a group would increase as we aren't continually having to rebound the ball the entire length of the field to score.

 

[Qwerty71]

I said it in another thread but the team that played NAB1 against Sydney had hunger and desire (Yes I realise it was only NAB), but it was the way the young ones went about it in that game. If this current playing group hasn't got it maybe there is a few young boys who do.

 

[Macca19]

The concept that what's going on is effort, intent or motivation is crap.

I'm convinced though that 95% of our problem remains the stoppage and contested ball issues and if we can somehow improve in this area we will open up the rest of the game and will look far, far better than we do now. Our defense will thrive under less duress, our forward line will get a crack at a lot more flowing and quick forward entry and our confidence as a group would increase as we aren't continually having to rebound the ball the entire length of the field to score.

You've contradicted yourself here really. Not winning the contested ball has everything to do with effort & intent just as much as it has to do with structure.

 

[Ian Jackson]

Observation first: when we win contested possession we are a very good side, our outside run gets going and we look quick and slick. So far this year we won contested possession against St Kilda (177-166), Essendon (149-130) and first quarter against Geelong. This is not a new observation. I've rabbeted on about this, pointing out that we were good at this in 2013, 2014 and the last 4 games of 2015.

Issue: Why has our contested possession fallen off so badly. Why can it go from hero (1st Q v Geelong) to zero (Q2-Q4 v Geelong) so quickly.

Theory : Sense of purpose.

Explanation: In 2013-14 we had something to prove. We had to earn respect. This motivation resonated with the playing group. We were still young and with that came a degree of inconsistency and a drop off in the colder months when bigger bodies held an advantage, but no-one questioned our effort.

Our more recent failings in contested possession is not due to a lack of effort either, it's due to a lack of desire. People often confuse the two. When two players go for a ball, they both try their best to get it. But only one can get it and, more often than not, the one that wants it more prevails. I saw this first hand on a number of occasions on Saturday night. Geelong players just wanting the ball more than ours, in clearances and in marking contests.

We had that desire in 2013-14. We prefer not to talk about it much, but that desire was distilled in the John McCarthy tragedy that brought the players together and gave them a sense of purpose. There was some anger in there too- a recognised stage of grief.

But grief has more stages. I can't help thinking that maybe the group has moved on a bit and has lost that burning, cohesive desire it once had. A motivation hangover of sorts.

I don't care what anyone says, you can't have 100% burning desire all the time. The challenge for the coaching staff seems to be to find a new way of bringing the group together and to find a new way to motivate them. Because if we find that desire we had, we will win contested ball and if we do that, we will be a force again.

I certainly think your right in that it is a factor, along with effective clearances that have dropped off with Voss taking over the centre coaching. I am sure there are other factors but I think you are on the money. I recall the game in London when Brad ebert kicked the winning goal, his reaction and that the team was electrifying!

 

[DPS72]

There was some anger in there too- a recognised stage of grief.

But grief has more stages. I can't help thinking that maybe the group has moved on a bit and has lost that burning, cohesive desire it once had. A motivation hangover of sorts.

There's 5 stages of grief.

Denial is 1. = 2013 preseason.
Anger is number 2. = Season 2013/ 2014
Bargaining is 3. = 2015/ 2016 preseason
Stage 4 is Depression...: NOW
Stage 5: Acceptance : Hopefully soon...

No idea if this is remotely accurate to whats happening, but it certainly does fit.

 

[philthy05]

I might put this in my sig as there are so may threads on this one issue.





We cannot execute simple basic football skills.


Full stop . That's it. They have no confidence in their ability because they doubt their ability. They doubt their ability because , they continue to fail at the execution.


There are other issues of course , like poor midfield set ups , poor work rate of players. A game plan that relies on us executing skills we cant.

But the ability to execute skills is the main thing.

Can't get the ball out of stoppages .. We fumble the ball way to much. Cannot hit targets under pressure. Lack of skills.

Can't move the ball around the ground when we have possession ... Turn the ball over or can't hit targets by hand or foot. Lack of skills.

Can't hit a leading target inside our forward fifty .. You guessed it ... Rushing kicks because we can't hit players in the open in a chain of possessions so entries into our forward fifty are rushed kicks or handballs .... Lack of skills

There is no rocket Science here. There is no real quick fix. We need to address the inescapable fact that we are a team with poor skills and only time spent developing those skills is going to help us.

 

[Willsy10]

Another theory or just another excuse for these boys? Structure and method is breaking down in areas for our team and the onus is on the coaches to fix that, but there should be no excuse for the players not putting there bodies on the line to win the contested footy.

 

[FallingLiefs]

theres not 1 reason.

effort
structure
inability to stop momentum and then the heart to fight once losing
terrible form
uncapable players
selection
Burgess?

one of these problems is fine but we are just disgraceful in the guts at the moment.

 

[philthy05]

Uncapable ?

My auto correct wouldn't even let me type it three times it's so wrong.

 

[MutleyDog]

I think it goes further than just "winning" contested possessions.
It is what we are doing with those possessions?
As is all over this board at the moment, our disposal under pressure is just so bad.
Which is why no matter how much the boys get fired up and "go in hard", if they just burn the ball immediately after getting it. What is the point.
Then heads start to drop and the game is gone.

Our coaches need to desperately work on.
1) Positioning and not all ball chasing.
2) Basic ball handling skills.
3) Making quick decisions. Knowing instinctively what to do with the ball. (I imagine this would be freaking hard out in the middle. But I am not an "elite" mid fielder)

I really hope our coaching team can turn things around but feel we 'Jumped the Shark" after 2014. And since then, rather than concentrating continuously on these football fundamentals, perhaps we have spent too much time on fancy game plans and overly technical stuff.

 

[MutleyDog]

Uncapable ?

My auto correct wouldn't even let me type it three times it's so wrong.

It is a well known term for a good cricket or rugby player, who shouldn't play for his country for some reason.

Come on we all make spelling mistakes

 

[shewho]

I said it in another thread but the team that played NAB1 against Sydney had hunger and desire (Yes I realise it was only NAB), but it was the way the young ones went about it in that game. If this current playing group hasn't got it maybe there is a few young boys who do.

People often make the mistake of looking at one side of the equation only. We have never played a game for premiership points since 1870 when we are the only team on the ground (although occasionally v Woodville it felt like that). Two teams are out there, both trying their guts out and one has to lose. To say one team didn't try is simplistic and wrong. What we are talking about is that competitive advantage both teams strive to get from greater resolve and desire to win. If it was easy to find, you would win 95% of games- in fact, both teams would i.e. it's impossible.

theres not 1 reason.

effort
structure
inability to stop momentum and then the heart to fight once losing
terrible form
uncapable players
selection
Burgess?

one of these problems is fine but we are just disgraceful in the guts at the moment.

You may be right but it's funny how all the other reasons seem to slip into the night when we win contested possession. Structure looks fine, we stop their momentum, we win so form is good, I don't know what an uncapable player is, no-one questions selection and when we win the clearances (and they spend most of the game chasing us), we look the fittest team going around.

Footy is a simple game and when it's played by teams of about equal strength and fitness, who gets the ball more often generally wins.

 

[DazzaTys]

Great thread but as far as I'm concerned, soon as you cross the line you leave the crap behind. You are playing for the greatest football club in the world. With that honour comes responsibility. At the moment to many players are being disrespectful to the honour of PAFC. I'd much prefer to see 22 DBJs who aren't the most talented players but give all every week and leave nothing behind.

 

[Powerade 08]

Issue: Why has our contested possession fallen off so badly. Why can it go from hero (1st Q v Geelong) to zero (Q2-Q4 v Geelong) so quickly.

Good post overall, just on this bit, I am pretty sure Geelong beat us in clearances, contested possessions, uncontested possessions and had almost double the tackles in the first qtr.

and we looked like crap, which backs up your point.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Well it's probably that time of the week for some blind optimism & I always feel better after a Bassett interview he's the same win or loss, he sounds like a cook waiting for the ingredients to come together.

Sounds like Ken is taking a bit more control with the midfield this week.

 

[Port85]

Seriously our midfield performance has dropped to incredibly poor numbers. These numbers are frighteningly reminiscent of the Voss era at Brisbane...

Now I'm not saying it's all down to Voss...but it's Voss.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

It would be nice to know what factors teams like Sydney, Geelong and Hawthorn include in their psychological profiling of draftees compared to us. Im pretty sure they weight physical development, musculature to a much higher/more effective standard.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Well it's probably that time of the week for some blind optimism & I always feel better after a Bassett interview he's the same win or loss, he sounds like a cook waiting for the ingredients to come together.

Sounds like Ken is taking a bit more control with the midfield this week.

Liked the Bassett interview.

 

[VineValerian]

Uncapable ?

My auto correct wouldn't even let me type it three times it's so wrong.

That's just unpossible

 

[MrChow]

If we have no belief the players and coaches aren't 100 per cent committed to each other and their game plans. if they all believe they are 100 per cent committed to the club and we still lose- either the coaching sucks considering our age of players, or the players football skills suck (bad recruitment and coaching).
If everything is there then it's a serious inability to communicate across the players and coaches.
If all the players aren't 100 per cent committed these players need to communicate properly and resolve their issues. If not they should be traded.

 

[Us against the rest]

Great thread but as far as I'm concerned, soon as you cross the line you leave the crap behind. You are playing for the greatest football club in the world. With that honour comes responsibility. At the moment to many players are being disrespectful to the honour of PAFC. I'd much prefer to see 22 DBJs who aren't the most talented players but give all every week and leave nothing behind.

Yes and the most disappointing thing is that our most experienced players are the biggest culprits.

 

[Coobk001]

You've contradicted yourself here really. Not winning the contested ball has everything to do with effort & intent just as much as it has to do with structure.

Fair enough, but I disagree. Effort is part of the equation, but what mainly wins the ball from stoppage, and/or defends easy clearances is ability and your structural setups. Confidence and familiarity between the core mids helps as well, however for me it has been clear that whilst our ability is a huge issue, our selected structures are horribly wrong.

We rely to heavily on massive swings of momentum and confidence in our stoppage work, rather than system and structure and when it starts to go against us we lose all method and become a real mess, allowing seriously easy first possession and clearances to our opposition.