Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[Gavin Excell]

Is it true though that no-one takes it seriously?

It's probably only a small sliver that take it seriously as consumers, but by presenting itself as a news outlet and combined with various other outlets sitting anywhere between "mildly biased" and "outrageously hyperbolic" they wield the power to create an overall impression to the unengaged voter.

Even if I knew enough to take Sky News with a grain of salt... I've still got my uncle and that one guy at work parroting their opinions. Plus that headline on the newspaper saying Albo doesn't know what he's doing in a more subtle way. Plus a few things popping up on my social media telling me Dutton is going to win the next election. For a lot of the electorate... that's going to convince them Albo is no good and Dutton would be better before they've even thought about the reality of what each one is offering.

I don't think there's a lot of people watching it

 

[Gavin Excell]

I'm always amused by the amount of Lefties on here that seemingly religiously watch Sky News. I would watch an hour a week at an absolute maximum.

It also says something about their business model that they can get people who don't like them to still consume their product.
Like a Carlton supporter who always goes to Collingwood games.

Which is my point
I don't think their influence is at all significant

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Costings are not facts. They are predictions.

Your bank balance is a fact. Your budget is a prediction.

Facts are things that have happened. They are different from predictions, analysis, assertions or hyperbole.

But then you have a case like the Coalition’s nuclear policy, which they submitted to the nation’s top scientific body, and the scientists reported that it would be much more expensive than Labor’s renewables policy.

So the politicians in the Coalition objected and the scientists in the CSIRO addressed their objections with a revised report that found the Coalition’s proposal was still way more expensive than Labor’s renewables policy.

So the politicians in the Coalition started casting aspersions on the scientists in the CSIRO, saying they were willing to sell out their scientific integrity to please Labor’s Chris Bowen.

I think it’s pretty clear what the facts are here. Dutton’s nuclear policy is a stinker, and the Coalition are hoping to bluster their way round that fact.

This is not the typical politician argie-bargie. This is the Coalition attempting to foist a really detrimental future on the nation.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Nobody takes Sky seriously though.
It's a pantomime where Albo is evil and wretched and Peter is the shining white knight destined to set us all free

People say that about pro wrestling too, and yet just last month Donald Trump sufficiently harnessed the tropes of its moral universe to win himself the presidency.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Easiest trick in the book is muddying the waters between legitimate criticism and bias.

When you've decided that a party is bad and the media is on your side, it's an easy argument, they're complaining about bias, but really it's that their guy is bad. People with this mindset will never be budged.

Albanese is an ordinary leader. Problem with the ALP is that to get to the top you don't need to be good at leadership, you have to be good with power-broking. So they often get people like Albo at the top who aren't good, natural leaders. Then they try to make it work and the bloke looks rudderless. Instead of setting the agenda he seems to be waiting to be told what the agenda is and his handlers seemingly don't know what to do with him either.

And natural leaders in his party can't show leadership or it looks like they're undermining him, which is worse than actually leading the nation according to ALP rules. So the ALP ends up in a state of paralysis and it shows.

They also can't change policies without a huge factional argument, which gets leaked to the press by those who don't want it and everything they try gets scuttled by factions.

The ALP aren't just bad in Government because of the media, it's also because of the structure of the organisation.

The weird part is, a decade ago Albanese actually had charisma and looked like a decent leader, to the point where I was hoping he'd get the Labor leadership over Shorten in 2013. It's like some switch flipped after he became leader and he seemed to lose any real personality or values that he had prior. Perhaps leading Labor conditions politicians to fit into a box where they try to cause the least amount of offence to anybody and wind up appearing stale. Or perhaps he just got old.

 

[Gralin]

Are they avoiding paying taxes some other way? I just assumed multinationals only avoided their taxes by managing the transfer pricing. It's wrong, but I don't see any good solution. Other than through international trade rules and agreements.

There's lots of fun things companies do
Another is a "loan" from the parent company that they use to transfer money without paying tax as they are paying off a debt

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

That’s a lovely justification for transfer pricing.


I mean it’s Lamer than an essentologists excuse for PED use in the great “I lost the list of drugs injected into our players” saga but hey… you do you.


Clearly as you assert that where the value is created is where it should be taxed they are then creating that value in Ireland / Holland?

What’s that you say? They don’t actually create anything in Ireland or Holland?

They create it in China? Why aren’t they paying that tax in china where the value is created according to your paradigm you just invented as a pissweak justification for transfer pricing to avoid tax.

I do hope multinational chode is tasty. I mean seeing as it clearly lives permanently in your gag zone….


Meanwhile Apple relies on our infrastructure, internet, roads, intellectual property rules, education system and every other thing we provide for them that makes their business so profitable in Australia - yet refuse to contribute to it….. and have turd burping apologists trying to make pathetically lame excuses to try and justify something that to any person with an ounce of critical thinking ability, to be utterly unjustifiable.

Nice melt

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The ALP IMO need to pursue a genuinely progressive agenda that will appeal to the U35 voting cohort that might otherwise vote for Greens or progressive indepedents and minor parties, rather than hoping to appeal to the more moderate conservatives and hope to pull voters away from the Teals or LNP.

I'd like them to do this, but I disagree that they "need" to do this for the reasons you've given.

Unlike the US we have compulsory voting and preferential voting. Greens first preference voters are over 80% likely to preference Labor above the Coalition. Progressive independent first preference voters are likely similar. There are few electorates where the Greens and progressive independents are going to make the 2CP, and even fewer where they'll make the 2CP against Labor.

So there's really not much to gain for Labor by moving left that doesn't already go to them, beyond perhaps winning an electorate or two in Brisbane from the Greens and saving Macnamara. You would think there'd be more voters in the centre to appeal to which would have more impact in marginal Labor-Coalition contests.

They only "need" to be progressive if that will actually be effective at solving the nation's economic issues. I happen to think that it will if done correctly, because a laissez-faire government has no real solution to cost of living issues caused by international markets, corporate profiteering and spiralling house prices. But I concede that most people don't think that way, or they'd vote for the Greens and progressive independents in much higher numbers. So it'll only happen if a true believer in progressivism like Steven Miles makes it to the top of the federal Labor Party, and that's unlikely.

 

[Celebrity 101]

I look at Milei, Bukele, Trump and other world leaders and think how lucky we would be in Australia to have them running our country. Strong men with courage to lead and make effective changes to benefit the people.

Unfortunately we have Albo. Pathetic and downright useless. You think his a leader. He couldn’t lead a hotdog stand. When you have Beta cucks leading a country with no spine and balls the size of a mothball, the people suffer - as we have under Albo.

Scomo was no better, he did his best Coata Concordia captain impression and was probably worse. Sums up this country.

Oh and the alternate choice Dutton. The egotist who wants to control how you parent your child with regards to social media who also wants to control what you read by banning your own social media too.

Good country Australia farken. Never thought I’d say it but give me Clive or Pauline at the helm over this lot of cucks

 

[faible]

I look at Milei, Bukele, Trump and other world leaders and think how lucky we would be in Australia to have them running our country

but give me Clive or Pauline at the helm

 

[peetoo]

I look at Milei, Bukele, Trump and other world leaders and think how lucky we would be in Australia to have them running our country. Strong men with courage to lead and make effective changes to benefit the people.

Unfortunately we have Albo. Pathetic and downright useless. You think his a leader. He couldn’t lead a hotdog stand. When you have Beta cucks leading a country with no spine and balls the size of a mothball, the people suffer - as we have under Albo.

Scomo was no better, he did his best Coata Concordia captain impression and was probably worse. Sums up this country.

Oh and the alternate choice Dutton. The egotist who wants to control how you parent your child with regards to social media who also wants to control what you read by banning your own social media too.

Good country Australia farken. Never thought I’d say it but give me Clive or Pauline at the helm over this lot of cucks

Enter Jeff Kennett - he’s actually slightly younger than trump - and not so keen on being on the golf course

 

[Johnny Bananas]

How?

I've told you exactly how. Look up Standard Oil and how it was broken up by the US government on the basis of market concentration stifling competition.

It's really not difficult for a government to pass a law on the concentration of media ownership if they can get enough progressive Senators onside. The Greens and Thorpe would immediately sign up, so all that would remain is convincing David Pocock.

Heck, if they really wanted, they might even be able to pass a law that media organisations must be employee-owned rather than shareholder-owned. That's what I'd campaign for if I were PM.

We are in the digital age. Its basically impossible to remove media you don't like unless you want to use North Korea as the benchmark.

Who said anything about removing any media?

You are wishing for something that cannot possibly happen in a democratic country.

You don't seem to understand at all what I'm wishing for since you've described it so inaccurately. I'm trying to work out whether you're intentionally trying to strawman me, or whether you're not intelligent enough to understand what I'm actually saying.

 

[kranky al]

Nice melt

It’s not a melt. You have seriously argued like an utter lickspittle happy with crumbs from a master who doesn’t even think of you’s table.

No idea of how self-humiliating your posts are. But on the plus side, you don’t feel the embarrassment they should engender in you so I guess that’s kind of a plus yeah?

So little self awareness.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Are they avoiding paying taxes some other way? I just assumed multinationals only avoided their taxes by managing the transfer pricing. It's wrong, but I don't see any good solution. Other than through international trade rules and agreements.

Div 13 / Div 815 are pretty effective in dealing with transfer pricing and Pillar 2 just got royal assent which sets a minimum tax rate for multinationals

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Costings are not facts. They are predictions.

Your bank balance is a fact. Your budget is a prediction.

Facts are things that have happened. They are different from predictions, analysis, assertions or hyperbole.

However, it's fair to say that not all predictions are equal in value. I'd be much more likely to believe a prediction like "the share price of Tesla is going to rise massively" if it came from Alan Kohler than from Elon Musk. Kohler is (to my knowledge) not affiliated with Tesla and has nothing to gain by pumping up Tesla stock. He is also well-respected as an independent commentator on economics and finance. Musk on the other hand would have plenty to gain by pumping up Tesla stock. Similarly, I put a lot more faith in the nuclear energy costings of an independent organisation like the CSIRO, rather than a private sector analyst who was reported to be doing costings for the Coalition for free.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

It’s not a melt. You have seriously argued like an utter lickspittle happy with crumbs from a master who doesn’t even think of you’s table.

No idea of how self-humiliating your posts are. But on the plus side, you don’t feel the embarrassment they should engender in you so I guess that’s kind of a plus yeah?

So little self awareness.

Yeah, as I said, nice melt

 

[Saint]

Of course the coalition don’t have factions, cos on faction has almost obliterated the other

LNP's factions are there for all to see. At least you know where most of them stand. I've got no idea where most ALP people stand on any issue because they're not really allowed to say.

The kind of rigid control the ALP has over its Parliamentary members is not how Parliamentarians representing their constituents first is supposed to work.

 

[The Punter]

However, it's fair to say that not all predictions are equal in value. I'd be much more likely to believe a prediction like "the share price of Tesla is going to rise massively" if it came from Alan Kohler than from Elon Musk. Kohler is (to my knowledge) not affiliated with Tesla and has nothing to gain by pumping up Tesla stock. He is also well-respected as an independent commentator on economics and finance. Musk on the other hand would have plenty to gain by pumping up Tesla stock. Similarly, I put a lot more faith in the nuclear energy costings of an independent organisation like the CSIRO, rather than a private sector analyst who was reported to be doing costings for the Coalition for free.

Then if you want to report Musk's prediction, interview Kohler as well and let him provide his analysis. Musk is not nobody in the situation you described. His viewpoint is news. The independence or lack thereof is reportable fact (Musk owns the stock he is talking up, Kohler is not involved in the operations of Tesla - both facts).

Again, the CSIRO's independence and the organisation that did the Coalition's costings and their situation are all reportable facts. The reason we know the CSIRO's views is that they were reported widely.

I don't think we have a media diversity problem - we have a consumption of a diversity of media problem, and that is something each individual person can address.

 

[The Punter]

LNP's factions are there for all to see. At least you know where most of them stand. I've got no idea where most ALP people stand on any issue because they're not really allowed to say.

The kind of rigid control the ALP has over its Parliamentary members is not how Parliamentarians representing their constituents first is supposed to work.

Mate, LNP factions aren't always clear to party members. Sometimes I joke that I need a briefing entering a party meeting to know who is and is not talking to who this time.

ALP factions are there for all to see - they are part of the building fabric of the organisation. In many respects, this makes things easier for them.

 

[Carn The Berries]

How?
We are in the digital age. Its basically impossible to remove media you don't like unless you want to use North Korea as the benchmark.
You are wishing for something that cannot possibly happen in a democratic country.

You could amend the cross media ownership laws tomorrow and put a pretty good dent into the Murdoch empire...

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Nice melt

That's a melt? Guess you haven't seen many melts.

 

[JackOutback]

Which is my point
I don't think their influence is at all significant

Sky News' influence isn't solely linked to their viewing figures... that's what Murdoch worked out a long time ago. Sky can send a reporter to a PM presser and ask why he's so useless, why the economy is in the toilet, why Dutto would be a better PM, regardless of whether any of it is true. Then sit back and watch as the rest of the media report 'PM forced to deny he's useless, defends himself against suggestions Dutto would be better'. It sets the narrative.

It's the same as some shock jock on morning radio hyperventilating about an issue, then news.com.au reporting on 'radio star's tirade', then Sky News reporting on it and eventually the Guardian and ABC are reporting on it. It's hardly rocket science.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Sky News' influence isn't solely linked to their viewing figures... that's what Murdoch worked out a long time ago. Sky can send a reporter to a PM presser and ask why he's so useless, why the economy is in the toilet, why Dutto would be a better PM, regardless of whether any of it is true. Then sit back and watch as the rest of the media report 'PM forced to deny he's useless, defends himself against suggestions Dutto would be better'. It sets the narrative.

It's the same as some shock jock on morning radio hyperventilating about an issue, then news.com.au reporting on 'radio star's tirade', then Sky News reporting on it and eventually the Guardian and ABC are reporting on it. It's hardly rocket science.

And where their paid "news" advertising appears. The only time I've watched Sky News in the last 10 years is on election night for the lols (for about 5 minutes before switching back to the ABC) yet my FB is inundated with Sky News "Recommended For You".

The channel itself is merely the source of the information, not the main way it is pushed onto the public

 

[MPMonkeys]

I don't think we have a media diversity problem - we have a consumption of a diversity of media problem, and that is something each individual person can address.

Perfectly said.
That is exactly it.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sky News' influence isn't solely linked to their viewing figures... that's what Murdoch worked out a long time ago. Sky can send a reporter to a PM presser and ask why he's so useless, why the economy is in the toilet, why Dutto would be a better PM, regardless of whether any of it is true. Then sit back and watch as the rest of the media report 'PM forced to deny he's useless, defends himself against suggestions Dutto would be better'. It sets the narrative.

It's the same as some shock jock on morning radio hyperventilating about an issue, then news.com.au reporting on 'radio star's tirade', then Sky News reporting on it and eventually the Guardian and ABC are reporting on it. It's hardly rocket science.

And anyway, isn't it the case that Sky have phenomenal "secondary" viewing figures on YouTube?