What a load of crap, your race has nothing to do with how good of a footballer you are or will be. Sure there are some good indigenous players going around but their are some good white players going around. The great thing about footy is that players of all shapes and sizes can play and play well, from Boomer Harvey to Dean Cox. We cna talk about genetics but if you cut us we all bleed the same color.
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Are Indigenous/Dark footballers more gifted than Caucasians?
- Thread starter Phil McCreviss
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Cue Paul McCartney singing 'Ebony and Ivory'.
I don't really understand why people have such a problem with this topic- the only question raised is whether someone with indigenous background is -on average- more likely to be a good football player due to physical attributes. Citing 'yeah, well, there are plenty of white blokes who are really good', or 'I knew an aborigine who was a total spud' contributes nothing to that discussion- it's like saying 'I know a Japanese bloke who is 7', so therefore they aren't on average shorter than a caucasian'. If Aborigines make up 2% of the Australian population and closer to 10% of AFL players ,there is clearly something going on there, whether it be cultural or physical.
You'd need doctorates in biochemistry and anthropology to be able to attempt a decent answer to that question, but from where I'm sitting it seems plausible- races have obvious physical differences, why would it be so incredible if those differences extended to different kinds of athletic ability?
They are good at the flashy stuff thats about it, if you want pure class there is no contest its Caucasians by a mile.
Indigenous players tend to lack when it comes to decision making skills and contested footy and are more suited to forward pocket type positions.
Indigenous players tend to lack when it comes to decision making skills and contested footy and are more suited to forward pocket type positions.
- Thread starter
- #79
I cant believe people have taken this thread title out of context. The statistics dont lie - 2% of the total Aus population is indigenous yet they make up 10% of all AFL footballers. Thats a fair achievement. I would assume the numbers are pretty similar in American sport too.
So this isnt about slurring caucasians ability to excel in sport, its about discussing why the odds are against certain minority groups yet they have disproportionate representation. If anyone cant see that, then they are just plain ignorant.
Dynamics
Cancelled
- Jul 23, 2007
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What utter garbage. Judging by this post, you wouldn't know the meaning of the word "class". Other than the complete absence of it.
There's nothing wrong at all with talking about this kind of subject. In fact, it's pretty interesting.
What I think can be problematic is when you start pigeon-holing people due to their appearance/race/culture. Polly Farmer, Wanganeen, Pickett, Davis, Goodes, Burgoyne, McLeod, McDonald, Winmar, Long. All, in different ways, have broken mindless stereotypes about what indigenous players are capable of.
Farmer, playing as a ruckman, introduced the creative handball. Pickett hit blokes like a freight train. McLeod is a consistent, brilliantly creative backman. Davis has transformed himself from inconsistent forward to consistent, hard working, strong bodied midfielder/forward.
The attitudes of people like "davis", above, can only serve to limit the opportunities for people to break stereotypes.
The other risk is that the achievements of athletes can be dismissed by small-minded folk as simply being the product of culture, environment or genetics. These can all assist and are worthy of discussion. But the bottom line is that to be a top-level athlete requires hard work, persistence and determination.
Oh, and my two cents on the whole African - American people swimming thing... I'd argue that it's mostly cultural. No great role models, limited access to olympic sized pools, the whole don't-get-your-hair-wet thing.
Nicole Livingstone wrote about it last year:
African-American star sinks old swimming myth
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21424852-14641,00.html
No 'they' are not.
'They' have more opportunity now (which is great) thus are more prevalent.
Matthews, Whitten, Carey, Ablett, Lockett, Dunstall, Judd, Hird, Buckley, Voss are (give or take) prob the 10 best players in the last 50 years. None are aboriginal.
'They' have more opportunity now (which is great) thus are more prevalent.
Matthews, Whitten, Carey, Ablett, Lockett, Dunstall, Judd, Hird, Buckley, Voss are (give or take) prob the 10 best players in the last 50 years. None are aboriginal.
Andrew McLeod?
- Banned
- #83
Black people are also known for their love of white women, fried chicken, watermelon, and cotton fields.
About as useful as any other stereotypes in here so far, really.
About as useful as any other stereotypes in here so far, really.
Dynamics
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I think you should make your list 4, the 4th being Polly Farmer. What colour is he? You should read the other posts properly mate
- Jul 11, 2007
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I'm sorry, but this whole thread is such rubbish...
You've never seen a white guy back heal a goal (Lloyd)...you've never seen a black guy do something stupid?
You've never seen a white guy do something "magic"?
For every Leon Davis or Budd Franklin moment there's one (or more) Dale Thomas or Jason Akermanis...
...just like for every Peter Cransburg there's a Willie Dick!
Some of the physiological "arguments" here are hilarious...but no...in answer to the thread question, "why did I bother?" springs to mind.
^I didn't say that caucasians don't produce magic.
Nice to hear this honesty from an Indigenous person. It seems that work ethic is what has spoilt a lot of promising careers over the years for young aboriginal guys.....?
goalpie
Premiership Player
Most have been duds at Collingwood. Davis the best but even he took 7 years to come good.
- Mar 15, 2006
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White people turn up the treble, black people turn up the bass.
- Banned
- #91
So you're saying Peter Cransberg is the greatest footballer that's played the game?
I don't think so. Pfft.
think you will find carey has aboriginal in him so but when u think about the murice rioli, micheal long, phil egan........ just to name a couple they were superstars off there time but u also have the same in the whites ablett snr superstar of his time also............. theres good and bad in both point is if there were equal 50/50 what will the stats be??
MrChristo
Premiership Player
I didn't mean that you did say "magic", Power King...was just my way of saying flashy/inspirational moments...etc...
Definately no witch craft involved! (Although didn't someone put a curse on Collingwood not too long ago? )
Definately no witch craft involved!
(Although didn't someone put a curse on Collingwood not too long ago? )think off it this way are islanders better rugby players,
europeans better soccer players
its what there taught from a young age indigenous children know nothing but sport from a very young age and in regional areas the most played sport are footy and netball if they had more choice of sport thet mite be better at different sport more so footy
europeans better soccer players
its what there taught from a young age indigenous children know nothing but sport from a very young age and in regional areas the most played sport are footy and netball if they had more choice of sport thet mite be better at different sport more so footy
Agreed. There might be some genetic differences that account for style of game, but I suspect a lot of the difference comes from culture.
For many aboriginal kids, footy is the one recognisable area in which they can excel, in which they have role models they can identify with, and that they really enjoy. Its not surprising its an area in which they succeed. Plus, its much less dependent on resources and access than, say, schooling, so poverty and social factors have less of an impact.
I've always wondered about the style of game aboriginal players tend to play as well. My theory is that the hard grounds in the northern territory and WA dictate the type of game they play. When the ball hits the deck, it bounces more, which makes players improve their crumbing skills (as opposed to soft turf where it just 'sticks'). Tackling becomes a premium as well; not only do you slow down an opponent who has used his crumbing skills to pick the ball up, but you can dump him into hard turf as well! And the less organised nature of the game, with less coaching in far rural areas than private school melbourne kids get (for example), as well as a desire to stand out and be noticed, means they take more risks and become better at evading tackles and doing flashy things. As a result, a lot of aboriginal players are natural small forwards, with excellent crumbing and evasion skills, the ability to do something flashy, and hard tackling skills to trap the ball in the area. The most afl-ready aboriginal kids; the Davey's, Woneamirri, Farmer etc - fit this stereotype.
On the flashiness - you see it in America with kids from poorer backgrounds too. The poorer they are, the more desperate they are to stand out, hence their increased desire to take risks (and with practice, they get better at it). Consider streetballers vs european 'drilled' basketballers. Its not surprising to me that you see it in footy too...
carltonblue
Cancelled
- Banned
- #96
I think Aborignal/Torres Strait Islander population is 2-2.5% that of the whole of Australia.
All things equal 2-2.5% of AFL footballers should be Aboriginal?
I think its more, and I think its increasing.
Fair to say indigenous footballers are more gifted!
All things equal 2-2.5% of AFL footballers should be Aboriginal?
I think its more, and I think its increasing.
Fair to say indigenous footballers are more gifted!
worthy
Cancelled
If you read through the thread you may find why it's not necessarily the case, but hey, that requires reading.
That doesn't demonstrate anything. Aboriginal people play football far more, proportionally. There are other factors at work.
Australians of european (italian, greek, serbian etc) background make up, what, 3-4% of the population, yet the Australian soccer team comprised of players from those backgrounds is far higher (maybe 60-70%?). Does that indicate those people are more 'gifted' when it comes to soccer? Of course not...
carltonblue
Cancelled
- Banned
- #100
I suffer from dyslexia!
Participation rates of over15s are about 550000people.
I think its 1 in 10 AFL players are idigenous.
This means 55000 of participants are aborignals if its to be equal. That means more then 1 in 10 aborignals playing. Thats 1 in 5 male aborginals that play Aussie rules.
I dont think it would be that high.
Therefore I still think Aborignals are more talented.
Participation rates of over15s are about 550000people.
I think its 1 in 10 AFL players are idigenous.
This means 55000 of participants are aborignals if its to be equal. That means more then 1 in 10 aborignals playing. Thats 1 in 5 male aborginals that play Aussie rules.
I dont think it would be that high.
Therefore I still think Aborignals are more talented.
