Are Indigenous/Dark footballers more gifted than Caucasians?

[Masten2McKinley]

aboriginals are more exiting then whites, but if u look at the all time greats most of them would be white.

I love watching aboriginals play footy but they tend to bew less dedicated then the whites and by the teen age years alot of them have hit alchol hard and drugs. well that is what happens up in my area.

Although there are some aboriginals that have been disapline and stars in the afl like Polly Farmer, The Materas, Long, wirra.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I suffer from dyslexia!
Participation rates of over15s are about 550000people.
I think its 1 in 10 AFL players are idigenous.
This means 55000 of participants are aborignals if its to be equal. That means more then 1 in 10 aborignals playing. Thats 1 in 5 male aborginals that play Aussie rules.
I dont think it would be that high.
Therefore I still think Aborignals are more talented.

I think you suffer from stupidity.

Waiting on the tests though so hang in there.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

aboriginals are more exiting then whites, but if u look at the all time greats most of them would be white.

I love watching aboriginals play footy but they tend to bew less dedicated then the whites and by the teen age years alot of them have hit alchol hard and drugs. well that is what happens up in my area.

Although there are some aboriginals that have been disapline and stars in the afl like Polly Farmer, The Materas, Long, wirra.

Depends what you define exciting as.

Seems to be getting the ball and running fast with it is a major basis for why aboriginal players are exciting.

Personally I find that an overated aspect in the game.

 

[PowerForGood]

As a sort of off-topic, does the more instinctive full-pace game that the indigenous player tend to play, a reason for their higher proportion of the "head-high" incidents coming under scrutiny lately. (S Burgoyne, A Goodes, and now L Franklin).

I know it is a small sample size, but I've argued in other threads that what the current bump rule interpretation does is to leaves those who come into contests at pace open to split-second changes and subsequent reports/suspensions. Certainly I feel this has been the case with Burgoyne and Franklin.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Not more 'gifted'. I do think the natural physical make up of some Aboriginal people lmakes them very well suited to some positions - the pacy goal kicking but defensively tight small forward in the Davey/Campbell/Rioli/Betts etc mould.

There is a reason why both African Americans and Australian Aborigines are 'over-represented' in professional sport and that is plain economics. The best ways out of the ghetto are rapping or playing ball as the cliche goes.

Its the same for Aboriginal guys. I played with/went to school with guys who had the talent to be AFL players, but just not the burning desire, and given they had the intellectual ability to choose another career and the socio-economic status to carry that through, they were able to.

For so many African Americans, and I imagine Aboriginals, sport is the best way out of poverty. And there'd be family members etc pushing their talented kids to strive as best they can to make it in sport.

 

[Dynamics]

Depends what you define exciting as.

Seems to be getting the ball and running fast with it is a major basis for why aboriginal players are exciting.

Personally I find that an overated aspect in the game.

Now that's a different discussion altogether! And a good one. What do you, as a supporter, consider exciting? Good topic if anyone can be bothered starting it.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

African americans have a culture of not having very much to do with the water hence there aren't many in any of those sports i.e. cannoeing, sailing, swimming.

Canoeing and sailing cost a lot of money and there are very few pools built in poor areas in the US.

 

[Underdog]

Canoeing and sailing cost a lot of money and there are very few pools built in poor areas in the US.

So they are more concentrated towards a few sports whilst "whites" spread the load across them all?

 

[memberforever]

The number of AFL footballers with indigenous backgrounds is at an all time high so have recruiters realised that Aboroginals are more developed than caucasians and are naturally more athletically gifted for AFL football?

Studies have been done in the States which put African-American's above other races for sporting prowess (cant remember the exact details but it wasnt a surprise). Are the indigneous players in the same bracket?

This thread is completely racist

 

[Phil McCreviss]

This thread is completely racist

Lol. Thanks for your input. Are you the resident Rhode Scholar of Bigfooty? Go away and let adults discuss this topic.

 

[Spike10]

Racist.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

So they are more concentrated towards a few sports whilst "whites" spread the load across them all?

African Americans do tend to concentrate on sports which don't require much equipment or space - hence basketball is idea because all you need is some concrete, a ball and a hoop. White kids, who go to schools with good facilities and who have the cash to pay for expensive uniforms and equipment, can, and do play a far wider variety of sports.

But this does have its drawbacks. The NBA is growing concerned that basbketball is being too widely associated with 'ghetto fabulous' culture and that is affecting its ratings and thus revenue.

One should never doubt how racist the US can be. The NBA knows that if, too be blunt, white people outside the big cities in the US start to consider basketball a 'n***** sport' then that attitude will be phenomenally hard for them to change.

While that's never going to happen to Aussie Rules, the principal attraction for Aboriginal people is quite similar - all you need to play footy is a ball and some open ground.

 

[trev106]

What makes Nadal so good on clay? Probally becuase he grew up playing on clay.
What makes Indian batsmen so good agasint spin bowling? They grow up playing on turning pitchs.

Genes of certian races means little of your ability to play a sport. Its what you grow up with, what you know,how you learn to play the game.

 

[davis_756]

What utter garbage. Judging by this post, you wouldn't know the meaning of the word "class". Other than the complete absence of it.

There's nothing wrong at all with talking about this kind of subject. In fact, it's pretty interesting.

What I think can be problematic is when you start pigeon-holing people due to their appearance/race/culture. Polly Farmer, Wanganeen, Pickett, Davis, Goodes, Burgoyne, McLeod, McDonald, Winmar, Long. All, in different ways, have broken mindless stereotypes about what indigenous players are capable of.

Farmer, playing as a ruckman, introduced the creative handball. Pickett hit blokes like a freight train. McLeod is a consistent, brilliantly creative backman. Davis has transformed himself from inconsistent forward to consistent, hard working, strong bodied midfielder/forward.

The attitudes of people like "davis", above, can only serve to limit the opportunities for people to break stereotypes.

The other risk is that the achievements of athletes can be dismissed by small-minded folk as simply being the product of culture, environment or genetics. These can all assist and are worthy of discussion. But the bottom line is that to be a top-level athlete requires hard work, persistence and determination.

Oh, and my two cents on the whole African - American people swimming thing... I'd argue that it's mostly cultural. No great role models, limited access to olympic sized pools, the whole don't-get-your-hair-wet thing.

Nicole Livingstone wrote about it last year:

African-American star sinks old swimming myth

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21424852-14641,00.html

Tell me why exactly Adam Goodes is an aboriginal, to me he looks like his skin is lighter so he has Caucasian blood in him so why is he labelled an aboriginal player when he is just as much a Caucasian as an aboriginal.

The whole argument is pointless to begin with but if it needs to be done there are advantages everyone has over someone else, some people are smarter, some are more athletic, some have better looks its random.

Its like racing horses you can breed out of a Champion racehorse and get a great horse or you can get a nag and you can breed out of a nag and do the exact same thing its purely random.

 

[Dynamics]

Tell me why exactly Adam Goodes is an aboriginal, to me he looks like his skin is lighter so he has Caucasian blood in him so why is he labelled an aboriginal player when he is just as much a Caucasian as an aboriginal.

The whole argument is pointless to begin with but if it needs to be done there are advantages everyone has over someone else, some people are smarter, some are more athletic, some have better looks its random.

Its like racing horses you can breed out of a Champion racehorse and get a great horse or you can get a nag and you can breed out of a nag and do the exact same thing its purely random.

He's not "labelled" as Aboriginal, he identifies himself as such. Do you really think racial and cultural identity begin and end with how dark your skin is? I can understand your point in the context of the "genetic" argument but you're generalising far too much.

In any case, people aren't horses and there are other factors at play beyond genetics.

 

[TuskenRaider]

Interesting one with swimming. Its the only sport they struggle in. Tennis, motor racing and golf have all been recently conquered.

Don't follow golf much? You could say golf is a sport they do struggle in.

How can you possibly say golf has been conquered by a particular race recently? Oh, I forgot - Tiger. Tiger is very mixed race, I'm pretty sure he may have more Asian in him than African-American.

And Tiger isn't so good because he has a fraction more fast twitch fibres built into him - he wins because he is so mentally tough and because he's been conditioned from a very young age to win golf tournaments.

There's plenty of players out there (eg. a fat, beer drinking, smoking, chocolate addicted white bloke called John D.) who hit it further than Tiger. But when it comes to holing a 15 foot clutch putt no one does it better than Tiger, and fast twitch fibres don't really come into that do they?

There are hardly any African-Americans doing well in golf compared to say basketball. So using golf as an example in your argument is ridiculous.

It has more to do with the ease and lack of cost of being able to throw a basketball around the street than joining a golf club.

 

[jiveturkey]

Interesting topic indeed...even more interesting is the way in which some posters have taken it upon themselves to decide who is Aboriginal and who isn't......interesting indeed......this type of classification was the impetus for the policies that removed children from their families.....the policies that created the Stolen Generations.....this type of classification only serves to promote further misunderstanding........and reveal your inner racist being..........full blood.........that language isnt acceptable anymore.......

 

[Underdog]

Interesting topic indeed...even more interesting is the way in which some posters have taken it upon themselves to decide who is Aboriginal and who isn't......interesting indeed......this type of classification was the impetus for the policies that removed children from their families.....the policies that created the Stolen Generations.....this type of classification only serves to promote further misunderstanding........and reveal your inner racist being..........full blood.........that language isnt acceptable anymore.......

If you are talking genetic make up and comparing races I think it is very much relevant and it deals with facts.

There is a clear difference between Aboriginals, Caucasians and mixed. Some mixed players class themselves as full Aboriginal (which is true from a cultural standpoint) which produces false results.

 

[bigpapagman]

I believe they are....I would love to see a team of indigenous players only.....they would be a joy to watch...have often thought that if NT came into AFL, it should be indigenous only....they seem so gifted, agile and quick of foot and play on pure instinct...

and they would get destroyed every week.

 

[jacko57]

The number of AFL footballers with indigenous backgrounds is at an all time high so have recruiters realised that Aboroginals are more developed than caucasians and are naturally more athletically gifted for AFL football?

Studies have been done in the States which put African-American's above other races for sporting prowess (cant remember the exact details but it wasnt a surprise). Are the indigneous players in the same bracket?

Eddie Sansbury suggests otherwise.

 

[memberforever]

The number of AFL footballers with indigenous backgrounds is at an all time high so have recruiters realised that Aboroginals are more developed than caucasians and are naturally more athletically gifted for AFL football?

Studies have been done in the States which put African-American's above other races for sporting prowess (cant remember the exact details but it wasnt a surprise). Are the indigneous players in the same bracket?

This is a racist thread.

 

[Mr Smiff]

The number of AFL footballers with indigenous backgrounds is at an all time high so have recruiters realised that Aboroginals are more developed than caucasians and are naturally more athletically gifted for AFL football?

Studies have been done in the States which put African-American's above other races for sporting prowess (cant remember the exact details but it wasnt a surprise). Are the indigneous players in the same bracket?

It's a case of horses for courses.
They might be very athletic at some sports, but hopeless at others.
I'll give one example.........swimming.
Another "COULD" be in the snow areas of the World.

As for footy, I'd have to disagree as there are just as many gifted "whites" out there.

 

[Mr Belial]

It's a combination of genetics and environment. Indeed generational environments are what determine the genetic picture.

Your genetic blueprint gives you the nuts and bolts (advantages in some areas and not in others) while your environment/upbringing gives you the experience/conditioning.

Genetics wise, the general (but not exclusive) rule of thumb is that darker skinned people have a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres while caucasians have a greater proportion of slow twitch muscle fibres. Fast twitch being best for quick reflexive power movement while slow twitch are better for sustained endurance movement. You tend to have a mix of both but it generally follows this pattern. You can still be white with more fast twitch or black with more slow twitch but it's not the norm. Strength is similar but strength endurance is different. An African American might be able to push a car over 10 metres faster than a caucasian but the caucasian would probably be able to push the same car futher before getting fatigued.

As a result you see more black athletes excel in short distance power sports or sports which require fast reflexive movement while caucasians do better in endurance sports. There are exceptions to this.

East Africans are good at distance running mainly due to their altitude training (environment) and their long slender frames.

The reason you don't see many black swimmers is mainly a genetic factor caused by their traditional environment. Their skin is darker because they're from warmer climates traditionally (Africa, Asia) which has determined their skin pigment. Likewise caucasians are from traditionally colder climates (Nortern Europe) and their skin pigment is lighter accordingly. With colder climate comes generally greater fat content for insulation. * compare Africans in the desert to Eskimos up north. This greater fat content in caucasians creates greater bouyency in the water and hence better swimmers.

Swimming is also a very aerobic sport (endurance) so caucasians have an advantage there too. Even the shortest swimming race takes about 30 seconds. African Americans and West Africans generally have greater muscle mass because of their fast twitch nature which makes their muscles heavier and even further detracts from their bouyancy.

The cultural aspect is also a factor regarding swimming for black people but not nearly as much as the genetic factor. The opposite to that coin being land sprinting for caucasian people. Slow twitch muscles just aren't made for sprinting. The longer the distance, the less African Americans and more caucasians you see doing well. Again, the East Africans are the exception here.

Aboriginals tend to have fast twitch muscle fibres and hence are very good at the more skillfull aspects of Australian Football because of better reflexes which helps in coordination. They're quick and elusive. They're not traditionally as reliable over the length of a match where endurance plays a part.

If you're an Aboriginal boy you're almost certain play Aussie Football because it's such a big part of the culture. You're much less likely to want to play soccor or tennis or any other sport and I think this is why we see a slightly higher proportion of Aboriginal AFL players than their demographic % might suggest.

Are they better? They are at some aspects of the game but not at others.

Again there are always exeptions as the muscle makeup of each individual is different. Often the best athletes are those with a mixed makeup and I suspect that's because they have an even combination of muscle type. Australian Football is great because it allows for all types and doesn't necessarilly advantage a particular body type.

Having said all that, genetics only gives you the nuts and bolts. Environment is the final determining factor as to how good you will be. If you expose the the average black kid and the average white kid to the exact same environmental factors growing up and they have the same work ethic and passion then their genetics will determine what they're good at. If you're willing to work harder and practice longer than the next kid then you can override any genetic deficiencies you may have and end up a dominant athlete in a sport which doesn't cater for your genetic type.

 

[jiveturkey]

If you are talking genetic make up and comparing races I think it is very much relevant and it deals with facts.

There is a clear difference between Aboriginals, Caucasians and mixed. Some mixed players class themselves as full Aboriginal (which is true from a cultural standpoint) which produces false results.

The language used...full blood..is no longer acceptable......it is offensive..... half caste, quarter caste, octaroon, quadroon are highly offensive......the terminology used in this thread is outdated and unacceptable

Im not sure i understand what you mean about producing false results.....if you are Aboriginal ...then that is what you are.....if non-Aborginal people cant accept an Aboriginal person as Aboriginal.....does that produce a false result?..... are Aboriginal people not to claim their Indigeneity because others find it difficult to accept the colour of their skin? .....

Here is a twist for you......what if an Aboriginal person has brown skin......and both their parents have brown skin.....as do their maternal and paternal grandparents and great grandparents......will that ABoriginal person still be Aboriginal in your eyes....or is it because their skin is not blue black and shinning that you simply cant accept them as Aboriginal?